Crazy Transit Pitches

My crazy idea is that the MBTA, if it’s not going to be in the business of real expansion anytime soon, get into the business of updating its current system to something that actually resembles and operates like a 21st century rapid transit system. And the best place to start is the B line between Kenmore and BC.

Here’s the pitch: after Kenmore, continue the tunnel underneath Comm. Ave all the way to Packard’s Corner. The Blandford Street stop is removed, and BU East and BU Central are combined into one stop named BU East. The current BU West stop is removed, and St. Paul Street is renamed BU West. Pleasant Street and Babcock are both removed as well. Packard’s Corner is the last stop underground.

After Packard’s Corner, the B line goes above ground onto an elevated track, and runs elevated from Packard’s Corner all the way to BC, making the following stops:

1. Harvard Ave
2. Warren Street (remove Griggs and Allston Street)
3. Washington Street
4. Learnington Road (combination of Chiswick and Sutherland)
5. Chesnut Hill Ave
6. BC (removeSouth Street)

We have a B line with half as many stops (9 as opposed to 18) between Kenmore and BC that can run unimpeded by traffic (making it ready for automated train control when it finally comes to Boston circa 2150) and which no longer makes the population of Allston/Brighton die a little on the inside every time they have to ride it.

Now I know elevated transit isn’t always popular, but look at Comm. Ave after Packard’s Corner. It’s 160’ wide from sidewalk to sidewalk. There is no way the structure would need to be so tall that it would cast shadows on either side of the street. The one area where this may be a tougher sell is after Chestnut Hill Ave, where Comm. Ave narrows, but it is a very brief stretch.
 
I like that idea a lot. That section of Comm Ave has a lot in common with some sections of Paris that have elevated sections of Metro. And the structures in Paris seemed to blend in well with everything, too.

886496269_57fa95923b.jpg


Some simple prioritization signaling would do wonders, though.
 
MBTAddict said:
......And the best place to start is the B line between Kenmore and BC.

Here’s the pitch: after Kenmore, continue the tunnel underneath Comm. Ave all the way to Packard’s Corner. The Blandford Street stop is removed, and BU East and BU Central are combined into one stop named BU East. The current BU West stop is removed, and St. Paul Street is renamed BU West. Pleasant Street and Babcock are both removed as well. Packard’s Corner is the last stop underground.

After Packard’s Corner, the B line goes above ground onto an elevated track, and runs elevated from Packard’s Corner all the way to BC, making the following stops:

1. Harvard Ave
2. Warren Street (remove Griggs and Allston Street)
3. Washington Street
4. Learnington Road (combination of Chiswick and Sutherland)
5. Chesnut Hill Ave
6. BC (removeSouth Street)

We have a B line with half as many stops (9 as opposed to 18) between Kenmore and BC that can run unimpeded by traffic (making it ready for automated train control when it finally comes to Boston circa 2150) and which no longer makes the population of Allston/Brighton die a little on the inside every time they have to ride it.
Click to expand...

I would run elevated along Comm Ave starting at the portal just west of Kenmore Square and then out to BC as you describe. A tunnel to Packard's Corner isn't necessary in my opinion. The Kenmore Square to Packard's Corner corridor is an urban environment with a wide boulevard, amenable to a modern elevated as pictured below:

Elevatedrail-1.jpg
 
I got a version of it off the planning documents for a new line of the Skytrain system in Vancouver BC. I added a median and landcaping to fit Comm Ave in the BU area.

I think there are several wide boulevards in the Boston area that would accommodate elevated sytems such as this without casting too much shadow. Tunneling is prohibitively expensive, and elevated would be a cost effective solution to providing grade seperated rapid transit.
 
Charlie_mta said:
Tunneling is prohibitively expensive, and elevated would be a cost effective solution to providing grade seperated rapid transit.
Click to expand...
It's a blessing that the deep-bore tunnel from Harvard to Davis (RLX) even got built.
 
Charlie_mta said:
Tunneling is prohibitively expensive, and elevated would be a cost effective solution to providing grade seperated rapid transit.
Click to expand...

Qualify that a bit: tunneling is probibitively expensive under city streets. The utility line relocations alone were an ungodly chunk of the Big Dig's costs. Throw in ancient property foundations and weak landfill and/or glacial debris soil and even things like constructing the Copley elevators can wreak havoc with abutting surface structures.

Tunneling under existing rights of way is significantly less-expensive. The rail lines in this town pre-date all utility lines, so there's little mess under the surface to contend with. BERy actually hedged on this when it built the Huntington Ave. subway and built Kenmore Station, as it envisioned the Green Line getting replaced by rapid-transit with tunnel extensions under the B and E reservations. Those things are still doable at manageable pain point if they were smart and designed Urban Ring Phase II as an LRT tie-in instead of an incompatible, bloated, isolated BRT system. Same thing with redrawing Silver Line Phase III to get to South Station using the abandoned Tremont St. tunnel and digging under the NEC tracks instead of the unworkable Chinatown dig. And same for the North-South Rail Link which is either under cleared, utility-relocated Big Dig fill or under RR tracks.

Just gotta pick the spots that lend themselves to it. It was easier to swallow the daunting Red Line dig from Harvard to Davis when the Davis-Alewife dig was really fast, easy, and shallow underneath an existing freight line. It's a shame they punted on Arlington because the remainder of the subway (to spit on surface between Arl. Ctr. and Arl. Heights) had similar cost efficiency as Davis-Alewife by going underneath a RR. Thankfully the available candidates in the urban core for doing this already are corridors that have proven their transit worth. We're not tapped out of max-upside routings by a longshot.

The state just has to start thinking realism. Can't draw these fantastical plans unimplementable in real life, blow hundreds of millions in design waste, then throw in the towel and scuttle every expansion project because "Well, our well-designed plan was impossible, so every plan is impossible." No, false causation. They chose an impossible path over a feasible one, then doubled-down on stupid. That's not an indictment of the idea of transit expansion, which other cities are running circles around us doing, it's an indictment of the planners' competence and priorities. Like so many other things that have been fizzing out with urban planning under this dysfunctional leadership class.
 
Sorry to dump this here but couldn't find an appropriate thread. It's about plans to reintroduce passenger rail to Cape Cod.

Cape Cod Online has a pay wall or some sort of limit on how many stories you can read so I'm putting it all here. Sry!

The sad part of the story is that, if and when they start up, they estimate that the trip from Boston to Hyannis will be two hours and 40 minutes long. One way.

Great, I can do my needlepoint and suck on hard candies while I enjoy the scenery.

HYANNIS — Cape Cod's rail line is on a new track.

During a meet-and-greet Tuesday aboard a historic, privately owned rail car at the Hyannis depot, Cape Rail Inc. officials introduced a new management team and laid out a new vision for the railway's future. The changes come as the company continues to expand its freight operations and the Cape Cod Regional Transit Authority investigates the possibility of weekend passenger service from Boston to the Cape as soon as next summer.

"The company has gone through some changes that were needed over the last three years since we started the freight operations," said Cape Rail president Chris Podgurski inside the elegant lounge of the New York Central-3, a rail car built for Harold S. Vanderbilt in 1928 that is chartered for trips.

Some "minor differences of philosophy" and the desire to maintain relationships with the state Department of Transportation and the company that operates a waste-to-energy facility where the rail line hauls the Cape's trash led to the changes, Podgurski said.

Podgurski replaces John Kennedy of Marstons Mills as president and chairman of the railway's board of directors and is the company's chief operating officer. Kennedy still has an ownership stake in the company but an "exit strategy" for him is in the works, Podgurski said.

Kennedy provided a prepared statement to the Times on Tuesday night. "The railroads and transportation infrastructure are vital to our region's economic success. It is my hope that the railroads will continue to play a large role in keeping this region moving forward," he said. "These railroads that I helped build, operate and grow over these last three decades have been a labor of love."

As part of the changes, John Delli Priscoli, president of Grafton and Upton Railroad, was named to Cape Rail's board of directors and as the company's new chief executive officer.

Priscoli helped relaunch passenger rail service on the Cape in 1999 before selling out his share in the venture. He then became the third owner since 1873 of Grafton and Upton, which operates a line in the MetroWest area that connects with a CSX freight line as well as a commuter line to Boston, Priscoli said.

On the Grafton and Upton line, Priscoli, who has a background in real estate development, has crafted a model for rail service that provides development assistance and transloading facilities along the railroad in a "one stop shop" for freight customers, he said.

"There is potential on the Cape for that type of scenario," Priscoli said.

Cape Rail has already been working on developing a transloading facility with the state Department of Transportation at the transfer station in South Yarmouth, Podgurski said. The new facility would allow trains to bring materials such as lumber onto the Cape that could be transferred to trucks for local deliveries, he said, adding the facility could serve as an off-loading location for large electrical transformers that can only be delivered to the Cape by rail.

In addition to the management changes, Cape Cod Central Railroad, a subsidiary of Cape Rail that operates the dinner train and other excursion trains, will begin an advertising campaign to make its existence more well known to Cape visitors, Podgurski said.

The Cape Cod Regional Transit Authority is working with the state and consultants on the possibility of providing weekend passenger rail service between Cape Cod and Boston by next summer, said Julie Quintero-Shulz, mobility manager with the transit authority.

"This is not a done deal," Quintero-Shulz said. "There's a lot of hoops to go through."

The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, which would provide the train used for the service, has said the trip between Boston and Hyannis would take two hours and 40 minutes, Quintero-Shulz said.

Although the train would be an MBTA train, the service is not an MBTA project, she said.

Among the remaining hurdles for the Cape-to-Boston rail service are an analysis of the tracks, approval from the Army Corps of Engineers, which is responsible for the railroad bridge over the Cape Cod Canal, and a study of several grade crossings, Quintero-Shulz and Cape Rail chief financial officer John Pearson said.

Currently, Cape Rail is licensed to provide passenger service as fast as 30 mph and freight service at 25 mph, Pearson said. A passenger service between the Cape and New York City is part of a longer term plan, Quintero-Shulz said.

Amtrak ended the most recent service from the Cape to New York City in 1997 after 11 seasons. Since then, planners have mulled reinstating commuter or tourist rail service to the Cape.
Click to expand...

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110914/NEWS/109140321/-1/news
 
2 hrs and 40 min? That belongs in "Crazy Transit Pitches"

They'd have to do some major upgrades to the tracks between Boston and the Cape to make that service shorter. 2 hours is doable but almost 3 is way too long; may as well drive.
 
I can get there faster from Salem NH than it would take on train from Boston to CC.

Would this involve stopping at each stop prior to the Cape? If so, an easy way to cut the time would be have limited trains run to the Cape, but have them not stop until they get to the Cape. SO don't stop all along the South Bay
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
2 hrs and 40 min? That belongs in "Crazy Transit Pitches"

They'd have to do some major upgrades to the tracks between Boston and the Cape to make that service shorter. 2 hours is doable but almost 3 is way too long; may as well drive.
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Tracks themselves aren't in bad shape because the whole line was rebuilt in 1985 for the introduction of the Amtrak Cape Codder a year later. Just getting caught up on tie replacement should bring portions of it up from Class 2 (30 MPH) to Class 3 (59 MPH) track. A little more investment could get the whole thing to Class 3 (commuter rail-grade Class 4 @ 79 MPH is something to shoot for later when there's full-blown service). Lack of a signal system also caps the speed somewhat. They started building signals while the Cape Codder was running, but the project was stopped when the CC got whacked from Amtrak's budget in '96. There actually were/are dark signal heads on portions of the line that were never turned on because the project was halted. I believe all the conduits are there, so finishing it would be pretty low-cost. But also wouldn't be a total necessity if they start small with service because you probably wouldn't see frequencies putting more than one train on the line at the same time.

Cape Rail has wanted for years to expand its dinner train service into more general-purpose transit. This is just a stepped-up wooing of the T to get them to the negotiating table, because all they're really looking for is permission to operate a transfer at Middleboro coordinated with the commuter rail schedule. In the early going they'd run everything south of there themselves until demand crested enough to merit some state involvement. They have the ability to do it because their freight arm, MassCoastal, has rapidly expanded in the last 5 years, nabbing the lucrative gov't trash haul contract on the Cape and taking over CSX's local business in Fall River and New Bedford. They've bought a bunch of new equipment and new locomotives, refurbished and expanded their yards, and have judiciously expanded staff. They've got the revenue to buy a few more passenger coaches for themselves and run more Cape Cod Central RR trains.

What's blocking them is that they only serve Buzzards Bay station and all of the old Cape Codder stations on the Cape. They don't yet have any links to the MBTA because they'd need permission to operate to Middleboro station. And that's why they're putting on the charm offensive to the MBTA, who disappointingly have shown no interest to date. This really is a no-brainer, no different than negotiating with a private bus carrier as a commuter rail feeder service. Throw in a few bucks of state subsidy, control the dispatching to Middleboro so the train schedules can coordinate...and then watch the Friday and weekend ticket receipts on the Middleboro line spike sharply with a 1-transfer ride to the Cape. 30 MPH is not bad if you're only going from Middleboro, and if the service shows its potential THEN you start chucking in a few bucks to get the speeds upped. At least to Buzzards Bay. Plus all the stations are already ADA compliant because Amtrak installed handicapped ramps on them for the Cape Codder, and are well maintained because Cape Rail has kept them in pretty decent shape the last 15 years.

Really don't see a downside to at least talking to them about it. It is quite likely the T is going to have no choice but to share track with them in a few years. MassCoastal already have the Fall River/New Bedford lines and stand to greatly benefit from the track upgrades from that project. And CSX is likely to dump its low-margin Middleboro line freight locals to them in a couple of years and just run from Framingham to Middleboro yard to bulk transload with them. That is the real reason they're trying so hard to cozy up to the T. They want that expanded freight business and to position themselves as good neighbors to their track owners.

Frankly, the T should be doing this and studying a full-blown commuter rail extension to Buzzards Bay first before even trying Fall River/New Bedford. Track upgrades and signals from Middeboro to BB are only estimated to cost $50 million because of all the prior work Amtrak put in, BB station is already complete, and they'd only have to build 1 small intermediate station in Wareham near the 195/495 interchange. There wouldn't be a ton of daily riders out there, but 495 and Route 3 are definitely more Boston-oriented commuting patterns than 195/Fall River/New Bedford, which is more east-west and Providence oriented. Whole different world bang-for-buck. And they can step gingerly onto the Cape from BB, doing the Cape Rail outsourcing, starting with limited seasonal service direct from Boston, and then maybe springing for track upgrades and signals on the Cape if things look good.

Don't forget, there's decent pent-up demand for the Cape Codder to come back. Were its schedules not changed to such inconvenient hours that it effectively killed the service it never would've stopped running in the first place. A little local investment down there puts a little impetus for Amtrak to sniff around again. Cape Rail transfer service starts a little momentum build that can give way to a momentum build for T service. Whatever they can do to rope Amtrak in and tie those lines loosely into the national network is a funding source they can tap. Funding they're NOT going to get on Fall River/New Bedford. Every one of their priority commuter rail projects should have some Amtrak relevance; it's the only way they'll get built.


Priscoli's involvement is interesting. Grafton & Upton is about as small and barebones as shortlines get, but he's worked wonders getting them on the map with his investment in their tiny line. He is all about PR, PR, PR and his public visibility selling expansion of the line on the communities of Upton, Hopedale, and Milford has accomplished things that their size alone would never have been able to. With Cape Rail/MassCoastal being a larger operation with higher ceiling for growth, it'll be very interesting to see what his force of personality can do. Very, very charismatic guy who knows how to charm the locals, get in the papers, and present himself as a good neighbor to try to win over some of the NIMBY's. All about $$$ for him...make no mistake, he's bottom-line oriented. But the gee-whiz railfan packaging he presents is pretty compelling. Worth watching, because he could do some things with that outfit if he goes all-in.
 
I recently had to take the P&B from Hyannis to South Station. It would beat that train by about an hour. But it was so uncomfortable that I would gladly have traded for a train that took longer. But not an hour longer. I think the o
max acceptable duration is probably 2 hours, 10 minutes.
 
It's astounding that a trolley like this wasn't an original part of the Greenway plan. I'd also like to see it tied into a further transit corridor on the south side, for example turning into the Piers Transitway (SL tunnel).

On the north side, I think (think) you have the surface trolley running over a parcel slated for development. In any case, why not run it up N Washington and directly over the Charlestown bridge? The elevated structure is still in place and to my estimation could perfectly suit the purpose.
 
An at grade bridge over the Mystic would be a disaster, IMO. As it is, even the Tobin is shut down for hours every time LNG is coming in. The height necessary to avoid a nasty situation every week is not feasible, definitely would need a tunnel, IMO.


Also, I always wondered what that curvey "breakwater"-like thing was near the dam! Now I know it was a footing for the old artery bridge. Finally, all my pondering can be put to rest, LOL!
 
Re: Chelsea/Charlestown/Boston surface LRV Line

Charlie_mta said:
On another thread someone noted that the new Spalding Hospital site in the Charlestown Naval Shipyard had insufficient transit access. This proposed line would provide light rail service to Charlestown, Chelsea and the Boston waterfront.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204339377609299454038.0004ae997b152d820dfc4&msa=0
Click to expand...

Charlestown Navy yard does lack transit -- but the proposal is far to complicated

Suggeest a single track in the street LRV through the main axis of the yard with 3 or 4 stops and turn-arrounds at each end -- no rail connetions to any of the color lines

One end would be at North Station though possibly outside the station proper -- this line would be treated much like the Mattapan trolley extension to the Red LIne

Later if desired a tunnel could connect with Green Line at North Station
 
Re: Chelsea/Charlestown/Boston surface LRV Line

whighlander said:
Charlestown Navy yard does lack transit -- but the proposal is far to complicated

Suggeest a single track in the street LRV through the main axis of the yard with 3 or 4 stops and turn-arrounds at each end -- no rail connetions to any of the color lines

One end would be at North Station though possibly outside the station proper -- this line would be treated much like the Mattapan trolley extension to the Red LIne

Later if desired a tunnel could connect with Green Line at North Station
Click to expand...

That would've worked if the Canal Street incline were still around. Current 92 and 93 buses to Sullivan used to be Green Line branches off there till '49. And the Charlestown El on the Orange Line that went to City Square via the Charlestown Bridge emerged from the very same side portal that the Green Line temporarily used during Big Dig construction. That portal's sealed but still there, and the space where the Canal St. incline used to be is now an access driveway to the I-93 ventilation building and emergency exit that will never be blocked by new development. But I can't under any circumstance see an El ever being rebuilt to the Charlestown Bridge. There's about 8 or 10 rapid-transit projects more pressing than that one, and in no way whatsoever should this ever pre-empt those.

Greenway heritage trolley connected at the portal to the Green Line...maybe, if some post-Menino regime pushes hard enough for it on economic development grounds. It's easy to unseal the portal, drop down a simple concrete incline to the surface akin to the old Canal St. turnback, and close Valenti Way to make a U-turn onto the Greenway. Would cost almost nothing to make that connection because the portal's still there sealed but slightly above the surface, and the ROW is unblocked inside the tunnel.


The Navy Yard can be helped a lot more by a highish-frequency bus shuttle, though. There's enough tourist and recreational activity to merit some sort of Greenway + Freedom Trail-paralleling transit terminating out there that's more general-purpose in nature than the purely tour buses. Maybe a short joint T/city special operation that does cater to the tourist crowd and has more frequent in-season service...but with fares interoperable with the Charlie Card system so regular bus riders can use it for general transit.
 
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