"Dirty Old Boston"

kz1000ps said:
Oh hmm.... on the one hand, it's clear there was a store at 440 Boylston, so I can't dispute that. On the other, I'd be awfully surprised if a R.A.M. Stern building from 1991 was using those disco-tastic brown tiles that Copley Place used ad naseum. Plus that's definitely brass framing the plate glass that all looks like it's the frontage to a mall entrance, which would be odd to have that sort of design/access to the lobby of an office building completed in 1991.

Here's some lobby shots from Stern's website. Typical buttoned-up Stern style, don't know where brass and brown would fit in here....

Again, can't dispute there was a store here, but those brown hexagonal tiles are triggering my spidey sense that at least that first shot comes from Copley Place.
Click to expand...

Nice digging on the Stern design, and I agree it seems so unlikely those tiles would have been used there. However, those photos (based on their contents) really can't been from too different of an era than 1991, and I really can't recall there being something as grand as a two-level FAO Schwarz store elsewhere in Boston around that time. The NY Times article makes clear that the one at 440 Boylston opened in 1991.

So here's my revised hypothesis: at least some of those shots aren't from Boston. Your Tumblr link states that those photos are scans from a 1992 book about retail stores. Could it be that the batch of photos commingles others from another city?

EDIT: now I really don't know! Those shots, upon closer inspection, all appear to be of the same store. Old photos of FAO Schwarz stores all seem to be different (each store has somewhat of its own aesthetic). And the "Stores of the Year" book is the right year (1992) to be featuring our "new" (1991) Boston store. So I am genuinely at a loss and throw my hands up : )
 
Last edited:
The photos definitely date to 1991-ish, because the red car in the last photo is a Mercedes SL and that design/generation came out in mid-'89 for the 1990 model year.

Ok I believe I figured it out: the first two photos come from somewhere else (edit: Copley Place????) and the last three are definitely the Boylston location. Look closely and you'll see there's no indication of a two-floor space in the first two, and the photos have a decidedly less blue/neon glow to them.

Then doing a quick google search for "boston fao schwarz" turns up more than enough photos to verify the last three are definitely Boylston. Here's a Flickr shot from 1997 clearly showing the flow of the space... clock tower, escalator, windows

52981888408_2b701fc855_b.jpg


OK and with that I'm signing off from sleuthing duties 🙃
 
Last edited:
kz1000ps said:
The photos definitely date to 1991-ish, because the red car in the last photo is a Mercedes SL and that design/generation came out in mid-'89 for the 1990 model year.

Ok I believe I figured it out: the first two photos come from somewhere else, and the last three are definitely the Boylston location. Look closely and you'll see there's no indication of a two-floor space in the first two, and the photos have a decidedly less blue/neon glow to them.

Then doing a quick google search for "boston fao schwarz" turns up more than enough photos to verify the last three are definitely Boylston. Here's a Flickr shot from 1997 clearly showing the flow of the space... clock tower, escalator, windows


OK and with that I'm signing off from sleuthing duties 🙃
Click to expand...

Nice work and I agree
 
Those old retail design showcase books from the 80s to 90s always have a fair share of old, forgotten photos. I’ve seen that some of them have some old shots from Copley and Prudential
 
all those pix are from the boylston FAO Schwartz. i went to HS a couple blocks away and we'd get baked and hang out at FAO during free periods; know the entire space very well.
 
The Bear that that was outside the FAO store at the corner of Boylston and Berkeley now lives at the Tufts entrance on Washington St. I just remember the one FAO store in Boston. I don't remember the one in Copley, but that entrance shot looks like Copley. Great find on the photos!

bear.png
 
Last edited:
Thank you! Here's to expending lots of mental effort towards something nobody cares about 🍻
chrisbrat said:
all those pix are from the boylston FAO Schwartz. i went to HS a couple blocks away and we'd get baked and hang out at FAO during free periods; know the entire space very well.
Click to expand...

Ok, so then where did that secondary entrance go to? Sorry to be a broken record but I can't get over that brown hex tile o_O
 
kz1000ps said:
Thank you! Here's to expending lots of mental effort towards something nobody cares about 🍻


Ok, so then where did that secondary entrance go to? Sorry to be a broken record but I can't get over that brown hex tile o_O
Click to expand...

🍻

Actually, this has been an interesting architectural history adventure (and noble procrastination instigator for me).
500 Boylston (Phillip Johnson, completed 1989) and 222 Berkeley (R.A.M. Stern, completed 1991) appear to be two phases of the same full-block redevelopment effort. Their podiums are adjoining and interior retail levels connected. The Boylston/Berkeley intersection is the bottom left corner of this image:
500-Boylston-plan_streetscape_courtyard_landscape_Klopfer-Martin.jpg

(image: linked from https://www.klopfermartin.com/projects/500-boylston-222-berkeley)

^440 Boylston is the address of the old FAO Shwarz store (within the 222 Berkeley building), shown in the bottom left of this image. It does appear there was/is an interior mezzanine level.
R.A.M. Stern's website (you linked upthread) is showcasing the grand office lobby, but it's conceivable that the retail areas (not shown on Stern's site) didn't have the same finishes.

I can't justify trying to spend any more time finding interior pictures of the floor of the retail mezzanine circa 1991, but I invite anyone else to try ; )
"222 Berkeley" and "500 Boylston" as searches produce some related content, but not what we're really looking for. Datadyne's post within the 500 Boylston thread on aB has some related content too.
 
So weve all seen this picture before
1687301172420.png


I found a similar one that appears to show more off to the left than Ive ever seen.
1687300682864.jpeg


Does anybody know of any other pictures of the back bay from before it was filled in? There has to be one somewhere.

The closest Ive been able to find are these drawings.
1687300821801.jpeg

1687300979265.jpeg


And then after that theres drawings and pictures of it already filled in and being built out.
1687300890322.jpeg

1687301316343.jpeg


https://written-in-stone-seen-throu...2/urban-geology-part-i-filling-in-of.html?m=1

But thats about it. If anyone knows of any pictures that exist of boston pre back bay being filled in if you could post it that would be awesome.
 

Attachments

  • 1687300840636.jpeg
    1687300840636.jpeg
    23.2 KB · Views: 63
bigpicture7 said:
Actually, this has been an interesting architectural history adventure (and noble procrastination instigator for me).
500 Boylston (Phillip Johnson, completed 1989) and 222 Berkeley (R.A.M. Stern, completed 1991) appear to be two phases of the same full-block redevelopment effort. Their podiums are adjoining and interior retail levels connected. The Boylston/Berkeley intersection is the bottom left corner of this image:
Click to expand...

The apocryphal story I heard was that both towers were supposed to be the same Johnson design (basically mini-twin towers). But the Back Bay was so mortified when they started seeing Johnson's finished product that they demanded the second tower be changed. And PoMo begot more PoMo.
That story came from a professor at Harvard GSD so I'm inclined to believe it.
 
I watched the foundation go in and remember newspaper pictures of the twin building proposal. One garage was built under the entire block (both buildings) as I recall.
 
AmericanFolkLegend said:
The apocryphal story I heard was that both towers were supposed to be the same Johnson design (basically mini-twin towers). But the Back Bay was so mortified when they started seeing Johnson's finished product that they demanded the second tower be changed. And PoMo begot more PoMo.
That story came from a professor at Harvard GSD so I'm inclined to believe it.
Click to expand...

That's my understanding as well. I know that I've seen a rendering of the 2 identical Phillip Johnson towers, but I can't remember where.
 
AmericanFolkLegend said:
The apocryphal story I heard was that both towers were supposed to be the same Johnson design (basically mini-twin towers). But the Back Bay was so mortified when they started seeing Johnson's finished product that they demanded the second tower be changed. And PoMo begot more PoMo.
That story came from a professor at Harvard GSD so I'm inclined to believe it.
Click to expand...

From the AIA website:

This and 222 Boylston St. evolved from one of Boston’s famous urban design battles of the 1980s. Originally the entire block was to have been occupied by twin towers, each with a forecourt, like the one eventually built here by Johnson and Burgee. Community opposition was so intense, however, that the developer agreed to hire another architect. The commission for the other half of the site went to Robert A. M. Stern, known for his eclectic house designs. The overall result is heavy-handed and intrusive at the street level, but at the scale of the skyline the pair are modest in size compared to both the John Hancock towers.
 
Speaking of Dirty Old Boston and things lost..........I wonder where these fountains ended up? I always enjoyed them even though the courtyard was a bit dark, and it didn't get much sunlight. I was sad to see them go in the latest courtyard upgrade. I wonder if they got re-used somewhere else?

1687799972516.png
 
Java King said:
Speaking of Dirty Old Boston and things lost..........I wonder where these fountains ended up? I always enjoyed them even though the courtyard was a bit dark, and it didn't get much sunlight. I was sad to see them go in the latest courtyard upgrade. I wonder if they got re-used somewhere else?

View attachment 39573
Click to expand...
Yeah, I worked in this building and often wondered if it would be more activated if the building had been flipped, with the courtyard facing the sunny/ south side on St James (though that's a much quieter street).
 
bigpicture7 said:
Actually, this has been an interesting architectural history adventure (and noble procrastination instigator for me).
500 Boylston (Phillip Johnson, completed 1989) and 222 Berkeley (R.A.M. Stern, completed 1991) appear to be two phases of the same full-block redevelopment effort. Their podiums are adjoining and interior retail levels connected.
Click to expand...

I've seen renderings floating around from 1986-87 that showed 500 Boylston as a twin set atop a shared base. I just spent more time than I should have trying to find that image in Google. No luck.

EDIT: just saw the rest of the discussion. I should read everything before posting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top