Does Boston really need the E line anymore?

[ablarc]

I don't think the Orange Line should be removed. Preferably, it would be returned to its original alignment down Washington St. Why would you reroute the E line for this purpose? There's no natural need for transit in the SW corridor; the only reason people use the Orange Line is because they lack heavy rail transit where they really live.

THE TRUTH IS OUT. ^

As long as transit is placed along existing corridors, the trains will go where people aren't. Nobody in his right mind lives beside a surface railroad track.

Check out the Orange Line in Charleston for further proof.

This miserable Orange Line alignment was decided with the "help" of phantasmagorical community consultation, but it turned out to be as wise as you'd get from a driveling idiot.

Why do we persist in trying to mine the people's wisdom for planning decisions?

 

[Shepard]

The blue line only exists because the bridge-and-tunnel folk haven't yet grown enough hairs on their chest to swim across the harbor to Long Wharf. After all, we have the Silver Line bus to take people to the airport, which is all the blue line is really useful for anyway - and the Silver Line does it without forcing anyone to transfer onto those horrific massport circulator buses. So what do we really need the blue line for??

 

[blade_bltz]

Isn't the real solution just to convert the Silver Lie into the Silver Line, at least as far as Dudley (and then towards Blue Hill instead of Forest Hills)? I don't see the need to remove anything. Parts of the current O Line are in fact well placed - see Jackson Square.

 

[ablarc]

After all, we have the Silver Line bus to take people to the airport, which is all the blue line is really useful for anyway - and the Silver Line does it without forcing anyone to transfer onto those horrific massport circulator buses. So what do we really need the blue line for??

Folks who live in East Boston would disagree.

And whatever you think of the Massport bus, the fact that it takes you to the subway makes it better airport access.

 

[czsz]

Isn't the real solution just to convert the Silver Lie into the Silver Line, at least as far as Dudley (and then towards Blue Hill instead of Forest Hills)? I don't see the need to remove anything. Parts of the current O Line are in fact well placed - see Jackson Square.

But that's the part of the Orange Line beyond the original alignment that reached to Dudley. And it still only really skirts neighborhoods. Jackson Square is only now being developed around the Orange Line station, and Forest Hills is an artificial hub on the edge of JP, and most people have to reach it with feeder buses, which is massively inefficient.

The population centers are still along the original transit routes - the E trolley's full buildout to Arborway and the El down Washington to Dudley that fed a burst of streetcar lines leading to the southern edges of the city.

 

[ablarc]

^ I agree; subway stops should be where the people are --preferably in the MIDDLE of where they are. The old Orange Line accomplished this, and the new one doesn't.

If I could wave a magic wand, even the Orange Line's Hub alignment would obey this principle; I'd loop a branch of it to Post Office Square, Aquarium, Hanover-Prince, Charlestown Bridge, City Square, another Charlestown stop, Sullivan Square and beyond all the way to Chelsea --which should be treated like part of the city, along with Charlestown, which should be recalled from exile.

 

[KentXie]

I am aware of the overcrowding at this time, but it's also busy from 5 p.m. - 9 p.m. It's also really funny when the trains and busses are packed, people enter in the back to get a free ride.

Ah great, you finally discover the real problem that should be fixed. it's not that the E line should be removed to cut cost, it's finding a way to make all the passenger pay for their trip.

Why would you take the green line to get downtown? I'm sorry, but are you a tourist? The O line would get you there in half the time.

Easy. From my guess, you are taking the fact that I live at NEU and its easy to get to either line. However, I'm talking about those who live further up the line and away from the O-line which would take them less time to walk to the E-line and get to DT than to walk to the O-line to do the same.

Why are you younglings afraid to walk 2-4 blocks to get to a station (Ruggles, Mass. Ave, and or Roxbury Crossing)? All Boston locals know that the white university kids are afraid of the O line because of the minorities who use it. Presently, the O line is under-burdened by its passengers and is waiting for all the college kids and to grow some hair on their chests and use the better line.

That's not the point. I take either one. My point is, there is a heavy demand for both lines, contrary to what you said earlier, that commuters did not need both when they clearly do.

I actually think Van's idea of moving LRT down Washington is a better idea. Might as well remove the current E line on Huntington and move it to where the old O line used to be. The current O line is vastly superior to its LRT neighbor because it's on time and gets to the Back Bay and Downtown at a faster speed. Also, it's better to use the O line when you want to transfer to the red line to get to Cambridge.

All HRT are vastly superior to LRT. They don't have to contend with traffic, they are built to travel faster, they are design to carry more passengers, and in the O-line case, less trains are on the tracks due to the fact there are only one line on it. The closest to that on the Green Line is the D Line. But that doesn't mean that a LRT is not needed nor demanded.

 

[armpitsOFmight]

...and Forest Hills is an artificial hub on the edge of JP...

O RLY?

Development is coming to Forest Hills whether you like it or not czsz; the community in JP is just having trouble deciding which project to pick.

 

[JohnAKeith]

I thought about commenting on this but then I read the other comments. Why waste my time and opinion?

 

[czsz]

O RLY?

Development is coming to Forest Hills whether you like it or not czsz; the community in JP is just having trouble deciding which project to pick.

Don't hold your breath. And even if they built this today it will have been 30 years of misalignment only to gain...an office park. Bravo.

This just serves to illustrate how massively inefficient it is to build transit away from its original corridors where people have settled en masse and expect them all to migrate. At best you will have extraordinarily incremental development in the direction of the new line.

 

[ablarc]

I thought about commenting on this but then I read the other comments. Why waste my time and opinion?

Well, why don't you try being less cryptic, and give us your opinion. From what you wrote, it's quite impossible to tell what it is.

 

[armpitsOFmight]

Don't hold your breath. And even if they built this today it will have been 30 years of misalignment only to gain...an office park. Bravo.

Ahh, and your comment just proves that when an archboston member doesn't like a type of development, they'll say it will suck and use the "office park" defense for why Boston fails at everything.

Well, why don't you try being less cryptic, and give us your opinion. From what you wrote, it's quite impossible to tell what it is.

+1 Ablarc.

 

[jass]

Does Boston really need the C line anymore?

Seriously, half of the C line's stops are a few blocks apart from the B line's. Since the MBTA is strapped for cash for the next 25 years, I say we convert it into a quasi-BRT system for the 58 and 66 buses and try to save some money. This could free-up funds for repairs/maintenance, the green-line extension into Medford, orange line extension into Roslindale, and maybe a new tunnel somewhere in the back bay/Downtown region to relieve all that fucking bunching between Hynes and Park Street.

 

[armpitsOFmight]

Does Boston really need the C line anymore?

Seriously, half of the C line's stops are a few blocks apart from the B line's. Since the MBTA is strapped for cash for the next 25 years, I say we convert it into a quasi-BRT system for the 58 and 66 buses and try to save some money. This could free-up funds for repairs/maintenance, the green-line extension into Medford, orange line extension into Roslindale, and maybe a new tunnel somewhere in the back bay/Downtown region to relieve all that fucking bunching between Hynes and Park Street.

Nope, all you need to do is remove half of the B line stations to increase speed and on time performance for itself and the other LRT lines.

 

[statler]

Does Boston really need mass transit anymore?

I mean most people have (or bikes) and there are roads that will take you anywhere you need to go.

The whole system seems like a pointless waste of money to me.

 

[bbfen]

Does Boston really need roads anymore?

I mean most people have iPhones (or an internet connection) and there are websites that will give you pictures of anywhere you want to see.

The whole system seems like a pointless waste of money to me.

 

[Shepard]

Folks who live in East Boston would disagree.

And whatever you think of the Massport bus, the fact that it takes you to the subway makes it better airport access.

Does archBoston really need sarcasm anymore?

 

[blade_bltz]

But that's the part of the Orange Line beyond the original alignment that reached to Dudley. And it still only really skirts neighborhoods. Jackson Square is only now being developed around the Orange Line station, and Forest Hills is an artificial hub on the edge of JP, and most people have to reach it with feeder buses, which is massively inefficient.

The population centers are still along the original transit routes - the E trolley's full buildout to Arborway and the El down Washington to Dudley that fed a burst of streetcar lines leading to the southern edges of the city.

Right, if you had the E to Arborway, then I wouldn't be opposed to restoring the old Orange Line alignment. Still, my point about Jackson Square is that you've got an enormous transit-dependent community in the housing projects, a consideration that counts strongly against removing that particular stop (and thus, rerouting the other parts of the line would be difficult/costly). I know there's no square "there" at the moment.

Plus...no way the T will ever dig up Washington St in the South End for heavy rail. Surface running LRT is clearly the easiest/cheapest option (if the Silver Lie people are to be believed, it would have been significantly cheaper than BRT)

 

[JohnAKeith]

ablarc, what I mean was, with the foolish, hostile comments back and forth, why bother?

 

[czsz]

Ahh, and your comment just proves that when an archboston member doesn't like a type of development, they'll say it will suck and use the "office park" defense for why Boston fails at everything.

Read the link you posted. It's literally an office park - two office buildings on a site that will be 50% "green space". On top of that, it was significantly scaled down from a much more ambitious proposal that included residential and retail components because it was too "controversial". The NIMBYs won't let Bostonians move to where the transit is, which is one of the reasons why transit should follow original density corridors.

Still, my point about Jackson Square is that you've got an enormous transit-dependent community in the housing projects, a consideration that counts strongly against removing that particular stop (and thus, rerouting the other parts of the line would be difficult/costly).

Sounds like a good excuse to uproot the projects there and replace them with higher density mixed-income housing on another site along the new alignment. This can be done with public housing much more easily than private development.

Plus...no way the T will ever dig up Washington St in the South End for heavy rail. Surface running LRT is clearly the easiest/cheapest option (if the Silver Lie people are to be believed, it would have been significantly cheaper than BRT)

It's not outside the realm of theoretical possibility. The street is really wide and would be conducive to cut and cover. The inevitable NIMBY whining could be countered by political correctness - heavy rail transit on Washington and Blue Hill Aves. would finally give disadvantaged minority sections of the city transit they deserve. There are more votes to gain in Roxbury and Dorchester anyway.