Downtown Crossing/Financial District | Discussion

[George_Apley]

Question: Why do I keep seeing Downtown Crossing referred to as "Midtown" on real estate websites? What the hell is Midtown in Boston?

 

[davem]

Question: Why do I keep seeing Downtown Crossing referred to as "Midtown" on real estate websites? What the hell is Midtown in Boston?

I've sort of taken it as a catch all for the FiDi, Chinatown, DTX, and even parts of the Back Bay (Midtown Motel, anyone?). Basically, the part of Boston that's tall seems to be "midtown".

I'm sure John has a better, or at least more academic understanding.

 

[fattony]

Question: Why do I keep seeing Downtown Crossing referred to as "Midtown" on real estate websites? What the hell is Midtown in Boston?

It is something entirely made up by real estate agents and used exclusively by real estate agents. Possibly, as the reputation of DTX improves the ridiculous use of "Midtown" will die off.

 

[George_Apley]

I've sort of taken it as a catch all for the FiDi, Chinatown, DTX, and even parts of the Back Bay (Midtown Motel, anyone?). Basically, the part of Boston that's tall seems to be "midtown".

I'm sure John has a better, or at least more academic understanding.

Aren't all those places already "downtown"?

I mean, downtown in pretty much all cities that use it is also just an arbitrary copy of NYC to denote the CBD, but why steal another NYC neighborhood name?

It is something entirely made up by real estate agents and used exclusively by real estate agents. Possibly, as the reputation of DTX improves the ridiculous use of "Midtown" will die off.

Ugh. I hope so.

 

[davem]

Aren't all those places already "downtown"?

I mean, downtown in pretty much all cities that use it is also just an arbitrary copy of NYC to denote the CBD, but why steal another NYC neighborhood name?

Idunno, personally when I say "downtown" I'm referring to anything east of Kenmore, so maybe it's attempting to make a further distinction. I agree it's absurd and needs to go away, especially with how provincial Boston already is. We have a zillion neighborhoods and neighborhoods within those neighborhoods, I don't understand why real estate agents need to come up with further names instead of just using what already exists.

 

[belmont square]

For me "Downtown" equals everything north of the Pike, east of Arlington Street, west of the Channel and Harbor, and south of the Charles River. Basically, the original settlement of Boston with the edges filled out. I never think of Back Bay or South End as downtown (although the former would fit in a more broad definition of the CBD for me)

 

[JohnAKeith]

Ha, ha. This came up a couple weeks ago on Twitter & the Boston Magazine website, too.

The "Midtown" moniker(?) isn't anything new; it has been around since at least the mid-1970s - there was a Midtown Realty in the Tremont on the Common building back then, and the "Midtown Cultural District", which included DTX, the Hinge Block, and Theater District existed since then, if not before.

It's maybe more-often in the news due to residential projects going up in the neighborhood. The new Millennium Place, for example, uses "Midtown" to advertise its listings.

It's not illogical that they would - if you a marketer for for a condo building with million listings, you'd want buyers to find your building along with the Grandview, Ritz Carlton Towers, etc.

Basically, to me, it's just the strip of properties on Tremont Street facing the Common. 45 Province advertised some of its listings as being "Beacon Hill" which is such a stretch it almost put me into convulsions. It's more "Midtown" than Beacon Hill.

The biggest reason? Our local MLS doesn't have a "Downtown Crossing" neighborhood as an option (at least, not yet). It has "Midtown", as well as "Theater District" and "Financial District" and "Chinatown" but your real estate agent isn't going to search those necessarily when thinking "million-dollar condos".

EDIT: We have a great MLS - it's called MLSPIN, and just about when I got into real estate sales (2004?) they recreated it (calling it Pinergy). It really is cutting edge, even now. Before then, you couldn't even search on a Boston neighborhood - you had to search on "Boston". No help.

They chose which neighborhoods to use back then (I don't think it's changed since then ...). They made some bizarre choices, and I've never found out why (I asked once but maybe it was my snotty-nosed attitude that kept me from getting a response).

So, there's South End and Back Bay, but also "Faneuil"(?!), "Stony Brook Reservation", "Aberdeen", and .. wait for it, "Long Island".

 

[fattony]

For me "Downtown" equals everything north of the Pike, east of Arlington Street, west of the Channel and Harbor, and south of the Charles River. Basically, the original settlement of Boston with the edges filled out. I never think of Back Bay or South End as downtown (although the former would fit in a more broad definition of the CBD for me)

Agreed, mostly. Its tough to call Beacon Hill and North End "downtown"

 

[George_Apley]

Thanks for the history John!

I agree with Belmont about considering "Downtown" basically the originally settled Shawmut Peninsula east of the Neck.

btw, is the "Faneuil" they have the Brighton Faneuil neighborhood, rather than the area around Faneuil Hall?

 

[bigeman312]

Ya. The term Downtown is almost always confusing in a Boston context. I had Asian tourists come up to me a couple weeks ago in City Hall Plaza and asked me where downtown is. I chuckled, but was embarrassed to tell them that they were in "downtown." So, I directed them to Downtown Crossing.

That experience made me re-examine what I thought of as downtown, and now I restrict it to being purely south of City Hall Plaza. In my mind, "Downtown" is the area bound by the North End, the "North Station area," Government Center, the West End, Beacon Hill, Back Bay, Bay Village, Chinatown, Leather District. This includes the Southern Half of the Greenway, the Waterfront, The Financial District and Downtown Crossing.

What needs an identity and a unifying name is the area between the North End, the West End, and State Street. City Hall, Haymarket and North Station shouldn't be considered Downtown. North Station and South Station should not be considered the same neighborhood.

EDIT: I know it would never take off, but I think the official title "Bulfinch" referring to everything north of State Street between the North End and West End as "Bulfinch" with the subset of the Bulfinch Triangle being a part of the neighborhood. Whatever the name is, there could be better defined neighborhoods as West End, North End, Bulfinch, Downtown, Leather District, etc.

 

[whighlander]

Aren't all those places already "downtown"?

I mean, downtown in pretty much all cities that use it is also just an arbitrary copy of NYC to denote the CBD, but why steal another NYC neighborhood name?



Ugh. I hope so.

Busses -- I think Downtown in the context of Boston dates from the days of Newspaper Row and all of the department stores -- there was sort of a one to one correspondence

Everyone had their own paper, their own neighborhood, their own politics, their own occupations and their own department store -- these were all part of the Boston Brahman Caste System

Extra credit for the complete list pairing the papers and the stores who advertised in each

where the department stores were located that was Downtown Boston -- this was the only Boston common [not the Common] to all of the castes

The other other way to think of it was the area roughly bounded by the 4 downtown subway stations:

Scollay Sq. -- Govt Center
State Street -- State Street
Washington St. -- Downtown Crossing
Park Street -- Park Street

And finally somethings old are new again -- as the shopping districts heart started to be lost to the suburban malls -- Boston and Mayor Collins recycled the old R.H. White's into "City Mart" complete with a daycare for kids, a mini version of "Home Depot", and a full service supermarket with prepared foods.

But the nascent Combat Zone won out and the Downtown shopping area went into extended decline -- perhaps to rise again 60 years later

 

[JeffDowntown]

Busses -- I think Downtown in the context of Boston dates from the days of Newspaper Row and all of the department stores -- there was sort of a one to one correspondence

Everyone had their own paper, their own neighborhood, their own politics, their own occupations and their own department store -- these were all part of the Boston Brahman Caste System

Extra credit for the complete list pairing the papers and the stores who advertised in each

where the department stores were located that was Downtown Boston -- this was the only Boston common [not the Common] to all of the castes

The other other way to think of it was the area roughly bounded by the 4 downtown subway stations:

Scollay Sq. -- Govt Center
State Street -- State Street
Washington St. -- Downtown Crossing
Park Street -- Park Street

And Downtown was specifically different than the Financial District, which was/is largely the area rebuilt after the Great Fire of 1872.

 

[whighlander]

And Downtown was specifically different than the Financial District, which was/is largely the area rebuilt after the Great Fire of 1872.

JeffD -- precise;y there was a "Caste" , a place and a newspaper for all the important things:

For example the moneyed but still working caste --- as differentiated from the coupon clippers* lived in the Back Bay, or on Beacon Hill [unless you lived in the suburbs and commuted on the train]

They worked in the banks, on Congress and Federal St., or at the mutual funds or brokerages in Post Office Square, on State St., McKinley Square, Devonshire, Milk, Broad, or Oliver -- the original Financial District

They bought their cars at Peter Fuller Cadillac-Olds on Commonwealth next to the BU Bridge

They bought their luggage at the London Harness Shop and their Cutlery at Stondards, their jewelry at Shreve's and their furniture at Paine's

They voted for people such as Henry Cabot Lodge or Leverett Saltonstall and they read the Evening Traveller or possible the Post

When they went to a department store it was R.H.Stearns bordering on the Common

* who lived in places such as Dover, Prides Crossing, Duxburry and Marblehead ---

 

[tobyjug]

Cadillacs were for parvenus and gangsters. Try Packard.

SS Pierce delivered.

 

[nm88]

Cadillacs were for parvenus and gangsters. Try Packard.

SS Pierce delivered.

Quite right. Go back far enough there's Duesenberg, one of the finest American-made products ever.

And don't forget Bailey's hot fudge sundaes. Served on pewter. Still miss that.

 

[kz1000ps]

I'll take a '40 Lincoln Continental convertible thankyouverymuch.

 

[nm88]

I'll take a '40 Lincoln Continental convertible thankyouverymuch.

No denying your good taste, but I've had a thing for Duzies ever since I can remember. There was one down the street. It was a miracle on wheels when it roiled by.

Back to the subject at hand, I've not been around for a while and just catching up, the quality of pictures on this site has leaped (KZ, Cerv, et al. included). Many thanks and please keep it up.

 

[tobyjug]

I own a 48 Continental Coupe. It is fun to drive, but the 6v electrics are a nightmare on a cold day!

 

[George_Apley]

Wait, what? Cars? Okay.

 

[kz1000ps]

Wait, what? Cars? Okay.

Is it ever not about cars?

Oh and tobyjug, I've become an avid reader of that Hemmings blog ever since you provided a link to it months back. Love those old SIA articles.