Emerson College's Paramount Center

Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

What is the "Prague model"? I'm sure we'd actually see a lot less objection to development that looked more like Old City Prague. But developers don't ever propose anything at that density or with that level of aesthetic achievement; they go for 20+ stories precast condo towers that consume entire blocks.
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

Narrow streets and alleys, lots of small footprint buildings clustered close together. And based on my short visit there, I didn't see a hell of a lot parks in the center city.

None of this would be political feasible. Too dense, too dark, not 'green' enough.
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

^ We don't know that because it's never (and will never) even be proposed.

You could probably sell it to the NIMBYs as "the next North End".

One of the chief reasons for their opposition to so many projects championed on this site is their comparatively vast scale. Because of their size, they seem more akin to these people to the redevelopment projects of the 60s than Boston's 19th century neighborhoods, even if they're filling in parking lots.
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

^ We don't know that because it's never (and will never) even be proposed.

Well, I think one of there reasons it will never be proposed is because it would require a radical change in zoning, and zoning won't change because people will fight it tooth and nail.

And I think the 'new North End' will work at first, but the it will turn into: "Make just like the North End, but with more greenspace! And make the streets wider for fire trucks! Also the apartments/condo units should be bigger so we don't have too much density. And make sure there is plenty of cheap parking! But otherwise, just like the North End!"
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

How does this symbolize who Boston is screwed up? Your post tells us nothing. Are we to assume that you mean that the Mayor hands parcels of land to his favorite developer, because that is the word on the street?

No, it's not the word on the street, more like the word on this message board?
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

I think that Toby is on to something in suggesting that "we, the people" aren't exactly ever given much choice re. how the city develops. Today, massive parcels are assembled -- often with the city's assistance or directly via the BRA -- and sold off to one of a small handful of organizations in the city that can afford them.

To justify spending huge amounts of money on their parcel, and because they're inherently profit-driven entities with shareholders to answer to, they build as big as possible. In an older city like Boston, that often means out of context, which freaks out the neighborhood. So you have political gridlock because people don't want density ... in part because density often means monoliths ... which in turn means out of context.

In response to large buildings that are usually disparagingly called "towers" or "Manhattanization," people demand parks or "open space" -- though I think it represents a "pound of flesh" mentality as much as a real desire to have (yet another) park.

I'd be curious to see what would happen if the city were to offer the public a plan based on small lots. E.g., if they scrapped the Seaport plan and told the public they could have one of two options: one, like the current plan, where a Vornado buys the rights to a few adjoining blocks and builds big-floorplate buildings along with a few big parks ("green flesh" by the acre).

The second would be re-zoning the Seaport blocks so that each block is broken into, say, 8 parcels that must each contain separate structures of max. 6 stories (numbers here are hypothetical) and would have smaller, pocket-style parks. It would effectively rule out large office spaces and would therefore probably be primarily residential/small businesses/retail.

Each parcel might take, say, $5 million to develop, so you'd open development up to a new class of property owners -- small landlords, individual home owners, small business owners, investors who are happy with slightly less return but also less risk. It'd represent a much more organic form of city-building, which has almost disappeared in Boston (though of course not the suburbs). It'd develop slowly, as people purchase and finance parcels (but then again, not much is getting built there under the current model).

Looking at the effect on the economy, it would preclude many large companies taking space there (bad), making the space arguably cheaper and more attractive to small start-ups (in tech, IT, financial services, design, whatever else) (not so bad) ... and, besides, with high commercial vacancy rates likely to climb and large-floorplate space likely to come online over the Mass Pike in the years to come (where it'd be economically impossible to finance platform construction by selling the space to petit property owners), I don't think there'll really be so many big companies moving elsewhere b/c they can't find any sufficiently large floorplates in Boston or that zoning a few areas this way would be an economy-killer.

You present those two options to the public, and I'm not sure what they'd prefer. I don't think I'd wholesale say that people would prefer the current model ... and I'm not ready to argue outright that the downzoning model would really hinder the city's ability to grow, add jobs or be economically competitive.
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

That's a very strong argument, but I think that people would reject the idea of the government dictating that a developer can only buy one parcel per block, etc. However, dividing blocks up into multiple parcels would mean a developer could choose to purchase a bunch of adjacent parcels for their big floorplate, and a few small developers here and there could build the smaller structures.

Also, if you limit the parcel size, it would be silly to limit heights. Height goes up due to lack of land area, so it would be organic upward growth if the parcels were smaller.

The idea that Boston has a dire shortage of space in which to build large floorplate offices is silly. There is still room in the Financial District, down by Copley, and along the Pike, not to mention where the Congress St. garage currently sits. A winning combination for the city would mean forcing developers to add density to these existing areas by building up, and allowing smaller developers to create a lively urban neighborhood in the Seaport, where space is abundant.
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

Can I just say - in a city full of neighborhood brands, how did Hizzonah come up with "South Boston Waterfront" when a hip, gritty, contemporary name already existed - the "Seaport District?"
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

That's a very strong argument, but I think that people would reject the idea of the government dictating that a developer can only buy one parcel per block, etc.

Maybe ... But at present, they want the city to block everything, and cut the height way down, so the NIMBYs (and regular folk) are pretty comfortable with government intervention. Besides, zoning already exists in every square inch of the city ... and most if not all of that zoning has tight height limits. In any case, no need to restrict height in the Seaport -- the FAA's already done that...

Also, the market as it is already resembles the agricultural industry in the amount of government interference involved. When the BRA tells Ted Raymond his building has to either have two little towers or a chunk on top of a garage, that's more micromanaging than any zoning law. Even more absurd is that the city actively helps assemble and sell parcels (e.g., Hayward Place, which sparked this discussion). The whole thing is so rigged as it is, you might as well rig it to give you a vibrant, livable neighborhood...

I'd love to see more tall, slender high-rises, but that's unlikely to happen when the parcels that come to market are all a full block or half-block. We're not doing ourselves any good as long as that keeps up, IMO. Zoning by width, rather than height, is the key to solving our current affliction of streetlife-killing groundscrapers and monoliths.
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

I think the residential South Boston "neighbors" were keen to lay claim to the district's naming rights. South Boston Waterfront... just a stone's throw from West Broadway!

Which leads to the interesting question of what Pleasure Bay and Day Blvd are called... South Boston...Water...Front?
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

The whole thing is so rigged as it is, you might as well rig it to give you a vibrant, livable neighborhood...

Exactly.

It wouldn't take much to "rig" it for a good neighborhood. As you noted, width restrictions would go a long way. Taken in conjunction with the FAA height limits, a developer would have a pretty good idea of what could be built - no back-room deals with the BRA required. Just transparency.

The Seaport District could be turned into such a neighborhood. The infrastructure is there, there is no need to build over the highway, etc. so smaller developers could actually be successful. There are plenty of places that are appropriate for large plate office buildings - over the pike, next to 93 in NorthPoint. Let the big guys play there and give some opportunity for the little guys to do something interesting in the Seaport.
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

And it would be profitable for the "big guys" to build over, say, the Pike? Yeah, that Columbus Center project is going great! And I'll bet those guys who have tens if not hundreds of millions sunk into acquiring Seaport land would be thrilled to build a Disney replica of Bay Village there. Make their money back in a heartbeat.

Look, I don't dislike the end result you seek. Its just that you are a puppy in front of a speeding 18 wheeler.

MAKE IT PROFITABLE FOR DEVELOPERS TO DO WHAT YOU WANT! OBSCENELY PROFITABLE IS BETTER!

Link things. Soul devouring super block over here? OK. Sure, go as high as you want. But the first 5 stories better work real good with lots of doors, properly scaled windows and a shit load of street life type retail. Oh yeah. And you better buy the next block and put something small scale, segmented, variegated and lowish over there. But you can go as high as you want on that superblock.

Or, hello Mr. Druker. That "Renzo Piano" masterpiece? Its a piece of monkey turd. Tell you what. Keep the SC & L facade and you can build a nice 25 story needle on the western most 1/3rd of your lot. Find a way to keep the Women's Union facade and interior and you get 30 stories. ( By the way, I don't like SC & L; it is a weak chin on what should be the best corner in the city.)

Please, please, please, come up with something that addresses the economics of development.
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

Toby, economics isn't called the dismal science for nothing. There're few hard-and-fast, crystal-clear laws in most of economics, and the dismal science of real estate is no exception.

I don't see how having zoning that encourages four buildings per block, e.g., or eight, instead of one, is categorically, a priori economically unviable. It's less profitable ... but unviable? If you can produce some numbers, then we'd be talking.

Sure, Boston development tends these days (as it has since the bad old Ed Logue days) to emphasize the mega-blocks and mega-developments. And without question, that maximizes profits for a very small pool of local and national developers, who are the only ones with the cash flow to develop those mega-lots. But is it the only way? Do you really think it is?

Economics can be slippery. Especially in real estate, economic decisions and one's ability to profit are chunk-blowingly tinged with politics. As a developer, you do what you can to max out your ROI based on the laws you have to work within. But why should those laws be drawn up to max out developers' ability to max out their ROI? Is that the highest good for the city? What about the quality of life? Opportunities afforded to small businesses and entrepreneurs? Economic diversity? Street life? All of these things are very much affected by zoning and the choices politicians make.

The question, then, is whether it's possible to have zoning that, in certain areas, limits the width of buildings and ability to assemble adjacent parcels. To answer this, you need to ask whether someone will invest in buildings that aren't a block wide. And, in turn, you then have to ask whether you can profit off of such buildings. That's the crux of the matter. At a time when most REITs are abgefarked and investors are chasing yield like a drunken passenger going after stewardesses, just a wee little profit, if it's a sure thing, will attract money. Treasury notes are offering almost a miserable 3%, but they're the most in-demand investment around. Obviously, you'll make a greater profit if you have a block enabling you to build a 40-story "luxury condo" tower with all the charm of a U-Mass dorm. But will there be investment if you zone to limit width?

The easiest way to answer that is to do whatever is done when someone wants to value a parcel or measure the growth/decline in a real estate market -- look to other buildings.

To that end, the vast majority of buildings in Boston are not the First National Bank Building / One Financial Center / One Marina Park Drive or other gems of such girth. Most buildings are pretty small spaces, even downtown and especially in Back Bay. And since most of them aren't falling apart, they're able to make money. Obviously, someone like Druker will try to knock down whatever smaller buildings he's got ... not because they're not profitable but because he can do something MORE profitable. That's his motive. But allowing developers to profit isn't always the city's motive. Otherwise, we'd have turned the entire city into a Charles River Park of Druker boxes (only, mercifully, with less open space). But the city has decided that limiting or encouraging certain types of buildings is in the interests of however it defines quality of life it (and oftentimes it does so idiotically) and worth the haircut developers have to take.

Sure, many of those buildings are already built and thus require no cap investment (other than what's required to renovate spaces for new tenants). So let's look at where most construction in the area occurs: the suburbs. The vast majority of Boston metro area inhabitants (nearly 90%) aren't even in Boston. They live in suburbs in detached, single-family homes. People keep on building them, because they can make a profit on them. Sure, land is cheaper, but developers would still be able to make more money if they built office parks in Newton, rather than homes. The City of Newton has decided it doesn't want to be overrun with offices, though, so it forces developers to build according to its rules. That may keep out the Vornados of the world, but it hardly turns Newton into an investment-starved Third World enclave.

I simply can't believe that building a few thousand units of housing/small-floorplate commercial in the Seaport would be so unprofitable that the outcome would be worse than the one we have today: Parking lots for the forseeable future, with the hope they'll one day be replaced with One Marina Park Drive's poorer cousins (as the eldest, it's quite possible it'll be the blingiest -- to impress, as it surely does).

The economics of real estate are a political question. You'll always find someone who can profit building a project on 1/8 of a Seaport lot. The question is if you force a model that allows only a very limited number of developers to be able to do anything, putting a huge amount of power in their hands, great profits potential, but also huge potential for the s$&% to blow up (as it seems to have done). Or if you encourage diverse, narrower buildings owned by different people. Like Rome, the Back Bay or any of the current Seaport plans, it won't be built overnight. But it'll be a model that has less risk insofar as it's less reliant on 5 or so parties that can even afford it; it'll be profitable, though to a lesser degree (if you think you couldn't turn profit on a 10-unit condo in the Seaport because land and building costs are too high, well, they're doing it on much more expensive land in chic NY neighborhoods like the Far West Village, Meatpacking District, Tribeca, etc.); and it'll create a better quality of life/experience for residents and tourists than a handful of office buildings that look, like One Marina Park Drive, like a recycled Sheraton design with greener glass. Telling me "you don't understand the economics of development" doesn't cut it -- most Boston neighborhoods are zoned smaller, and even new developments do make money; just 'cause Druker or the faux historians he's hired (sorry, that's inside baseball) says he'll lose his shirt doesn't mean it's true.
 
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Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

MAKE IT PROFITABLE FOR DEVELOPERS TO DO WHAT YOU WANT! OBSCENELY PROFITABLE IS BETTER!

Exactly. Developers will do whatever is easiest and most profitable. The rules of development must make a desirable product the easiest and most profitable permitted in a given location.

Building over the Pike will never be profitable without public subsidies. It is in the city's best interest to cover the highway and stitch the city back together; however nothing will happen as long as the Turnpike Authority / MassDOT treat air rights as a revenue generating source.

As for the Seaport - the run-up in land values is a result of a flawed process. REITs and institutional investors have extracted a fortune in profits without building anything. Is this the model we want to encourage? At this point someone will probably lose big in the Seaport to bring things back into balance; but why does it have to be the Public? Can we build not a Disney-esque Bay Village replica, but an extension to Fort Point's massing and streetwalls with some slender towers mixed in? Should we really be forced to wait another 10-20 years for the bastard stepchildren of One Marina Park Dr?

Link things. Soul devouring super block over here? OK. Sure, go as high as you want. But the first 5 stories better work real good with lots of doors, properly scaled windows and a shit load of street life type retail. Oh yeah. And you better buy the next block and put something small scale, segmented, variegated and lowish over there. But you can go as high as you want on that superblock.

Or, hello Mr. Druker. That "Renzo Piano" masterpiece? Its a piece of monkey turd. Tell you what. Keep the SC & L facade and you can build a nice 25 story needle on the western most 1/3rd of your lot. Find a way to keep the Women's Union facade and interior and you get 30 stories.

This is the kind of thinking that needs to happen. There are ways to encourage development while still getting a finished product that is an improvement to the neighborhood as a whole.

I am so sick of the thinking that says development must maintain the status quo, otherwise you will kill investment, stifle innovation, and create a barren wasteland of a city. There is a middle ground. There are plenty of developers who will be happy to make a little less profit in exchange for reduced risk, a transparent,streamlined approval process, and quicker return on investment.

As for Hayward Place (where this thread tangent began), the parking lot should be split into a least 4 (if not 6 or 8) parcels and sold off to different developers. Require each to build to the lot-lines and create a streetwall about 100' tall; then allow them to step back and build thin towers. Maybe only a couple of the parcels could have towers, but that should be determined prior to selling them - they come with approvals for whatever height already in place.

Just my $.02
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

I'm only good for a ha'penny! Hayward Place? Build a crazy 25 story art deco building, call it "Television City", and get as many TV and radio outlets as possible to move in. Work well with Emerson. Throw in a few nail salons and hairdresser shops for the talking heads.
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

^^ A tall Art Deco sounds perfect for that site. (The chances it will happen, unfortunately, are probably zilch. Still, one can hope...)
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

I like the concept, but would commercial TV and radio stations really want to share a building with their competitors?
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

^^ A great concept, yet wouldn't it be better to have a 25 story on one quadrant of the site? All you would need is one media conglomerate with a tv station and a handful of radio stations in the Boston market - call it Broadcast Center / Tower / something like that - a slender tower could be iconic for their business (and Emerson).
 
Re: BRA approves Emerson College's Paramount Center

Sure, why not.
 

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