Federal Funds for South Station Expansion

Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

They should also put platforms and tracks directly below these. Acela can have these platforms underneath dedicated to them. If the Fairmount gets electrified, then they can use that level too.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

I just discovered that there is a website for this project:

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/southstationexpansion/Home.aspx

There is a project overview from this fall, a factsheet from november, and the schedule of what is gettign done.
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/25/Docs/SouthStationExpansionOverviewAutumn2012.pdf
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/25/Docs/ProjectFactSheet November2012.pdf
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/25/Docs/ProjectOverviewScheduleAutumn2012.pdf
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

The one part of this that was supposed to start active construction several years ago was an indoor connection between the train and bus stations, with a moving sidewalk. What has delayed this?
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

I'm hearing that MassDOT is considering use of Allston Landing as a layover facility.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

Matthew said:
I'm hearing that MassDOT is considering use of Allston Landing as a layover facility.
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I'm assuming that means the CSX engine house yard? If so, good. That's an active refueling and repair facility with 7 storage tail tracks (and room for probably a half-dozen more), a turning loop, direct northside access off the Grand Junction, and good site security. Will be vacated by CSX in 3 months when they start refueling out west, sits on the most inaccessible and very likely last-to-be-developed parcel on Beacon Park, and has no neighbors to disturb by fumes/noise who aren't already disturbed by fumes/noise. And unlike the main freight yard where CSX is paying for the demolition, the engine yard is state's responsibility...meaning the alternative is just letting it sit and rot into a superfund site while they have no money to demolish or clean up.

It's as close to a 'free' capacity expander they'll ever get, and they can milk it for a good 10-15 years before Harvard ever gets within 300 yards of that corner of the site. Perfect timing since it'll likely be 2025 before there's enough money to permanently expand Readville.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

Any chance this could be leveraged to make "Fairmount"ing the Brighton/Newton part of the line easier?
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

Matthew said:
Any chance this could be leveraged to make "Fairmount"ing the Brighton/Newton part of the line easier?
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Sure...it helps. It helps the whole southside if they can free up space at Widett Circle for other needs by stuffing the Worcester equipment pool here and coordinating equipment moves when schedule allows from 2 different spots. The immediate upside is that they can pack the Framingham-turning service density ever tighter right away with the modest extra flex that allows, since if the Worcester Line has one track clear from BP to SS there's at least one path in/out to a platform that's conflict-free at most schedule slots. It would still be a better thing in the long term if they still kept their sights centered on a "BET South" large facility at an expanded Readville, since the environmental costs of modernizing and expanding the CSX digs for permanent use are yucky. But it's nothing but net-positive if they're just renting it in as-is condition for the next decade.


Nothing, however, is going to open up a real clock-facing "Indigo" schedule on any line until SS gets fully expanded. Including on Fairmount. The extra storage space doesn't fully eliminate the need to use the existing platforms as de-facto layovers. Still too many conflicting moves in and out of the platforms induced by NEC trains fanning out, and still too low a ceiling put on Fairmount and the smaller branches by that NEC squeeze. Even with Beacon Park supplemental storage Widett Circle is still forced by those conflicting movements to act as a day-long storage yard instead of a quick-in/quick-out shuttle to the platform. So the fundamental capacity issues don't change until the tracks are reconfigured.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

A presentation was given using those slides in Allston today.

It was pretty vague and unhelpful. Basically, they're not saying much beyond "we're looking at Readville, Widett Circle and Beacon Park for layover space."

There's to be an ENF at the end of the month and a comment period for a month after that.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

Very Disappointing news for SST
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

IDK about you but I would be thrilled if something like that were come to pass. Decent height on the channel, parkland fits, and the SST is already taken as a given. We'll see what its like in 15 years.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

I'd like to see the third vision come to pass, too, and also really liked the b version of Dot. Ave., with the two way cycle track along side the harbor walk.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

In this proposal, where would the Post Office facilities move to?
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

I could die happy if Fort Point Channel and Dot Ave are ever this good looking/full of activity.

uspsfull_5.jpg


I love the plaza from Dot Ave sloping down to the channel. Integration with its waterways is always something I've thought we haven't done a great job of in Boston, and this would go a long way in addressing that.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

The Dorchester Ave developments would be quite disconnected from the rest of the downtown grid... I wonder if they could work in a passage through the bus terminal to improve access to the site?
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

Love this.

Still hate the idea of covering the current station tracks in anything but glass.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

Justin7 said:
Love this.

Still hate the idea of covering the current station tracks in anything but glass.
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I would agree with you, except the tracks are already pretty well covered by the bus terminal, glass shelters weren't used in the immediate vicinity of the station, and there's really no way to combine glass ceilings with development on top of the tracks.

At this point I'm more concerned about proper ventilation and making sure this doesn't end with Back Bay 2.0 than I am with the amount of natural light available to people boarding and detraining.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

I have to admit, if the whole platform area is going to end up looking as dark and smoky as the bus terminal area, that will be fairly depressing. But if they can light it better and maybe find some sort of surface the grime won't stick to as easily, then it should be alright.

I agree that the new Dorchester Avenue renderings look really nice.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

Commuting Boston Student said:
At this point I'm more concerned about proper ventilation and making sure this doesn't end with Back Bay 2.0 than I am with the amount of natural light available to people boarding and detraining.
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I think a lot of how people view a station with covered platforms depends on the head house and surrounding neighborhood. Nobody complains about Grand Central's underground platforms, yet Penn Station's platforms are one of the big things people hate about it. I think South Station's head house compares favorably with Grand Central, and the covered platforms likely won't be an issue at all.
 
Re: Fend Funds for South Station Expansion

HenryAlan said:
I think a lot of how people view a station with covered platforms depends on the head house and surrounding neighborhood. Nobody complains about Grand Central's underground platforms, yet Penn Station's platforms are one of the big things people hate about it. I think South Station's head house compares favorably with Grand Central, and the covered platforms likely won't be an issue at all.
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Grand Central has a nice waiting area and station in general , so the fact that there platforms are covered doesn't mean much.....same with 30th Street in Philly or Newark Penn which is covered... New York Penn Station is different , the whole station is depressing and thus hated.... South Station is generally diesel which is different from Grand Central or New York Penn , the fumes build up and are bad for your health.....if this were a fully Electric network I don't think people would be having issues with covering the platforms....but I don't think people want another Back Bay station.
 
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