Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay

New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/view.bg?articleid=1151239&srvc=business&position=3
The Christian Science Church has launched an ambitious effort to revitalize its 14.5-acre plaza, but won?t reveal details of the plan that is expected to include at least one office building.

?The Boston Redevelopment Authority has asked us to start the public process and give an introduction to the church and not much more,? said Barbara Burley, senior manager at the First Church of Christ, Scientist. ?We have some ideas, but it?s premature to talk about them right now.?

Burley made her remarks at an early morning meeting of the Citizens Advisory Committee, a 16-member panel appointed by Mayor Thomas M. Menino to advise the city on development of the church?s real estate at Huntington and Massachusetts Avenue, across the street from Symphony Hall. Burley outlined three goals at the City Hall session: enhancing the public space around the church, which she called the largest privately owned open space in Boston, improving water management and new construction.


Burley was unsure about the zoning height limits, but a BRA spokeswoman said any new construction would be limited to 7-to-11 stories unless there is a zoning change. Neighborhood sources say the church wants to built a 10-to-20 story office tower.

State Rep. Byron Rushing, a Boston Democrat and CAC member, said the Christian Science Plaza Revitalization project is one of four developments in the planning stages that include a Massachusetts Turnpike Authority air-rights project above the turnpike at Massachusetts Avenue and Bostonian Street as well as Northeastern University and Berklee College of Music?s expansion.

?We?re talking about a lot of development and it?s very close together,? he said. ?There should be one permanent CAC that the community elects to coordinate review of these plans.?
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

The only thing they need to do to improve the plaza is to tear down that motel across the street and build a 7-11 story building that fills in the street wall.

They need to be very careful with how they do this.

Edit: here is a Google Map of what would probably work.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

Paul, thanks for all the info you post here btw.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

They certainly do need to be careful...it's a fantastic public space.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

1) Why are we talking about tweaking one of our public spaces that actually works well when we have so many others that are in need of tweaking (or are out right disasters)?

2) Aren't the CS-ers trying to sell off their property? I seem to remember hearing that they are in SERIOUS financial trouble. Why are they suddenly talking about developing more property?
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

Presumably because selling off or developing some of their property is a way for them to get OUT of financial trouble.

But I agree that they should first look to tear down and redevelop that motel they own. I think they also own some one- or two-story commercial storefronts along Mass. Ave. that Berklee would love to have.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

1) Why are we talking about tweaking one of our public spaces that actually works well when we have so many others that are in need of tweaking (or are out right disasters)?

"which she called the largest privately owned open space in Boston"

WHy would they invest in other areas when they own this?
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

The rows of trees along Huntington seem like a good location, but ONLY as long as they don't get rid of the planters along the reflecting pool. Keep some kind of a vegetative barrier there and I'd be fine. Actually, I'd love to see Hungtington grow up the way it has when heading towards Copley.

Slightly off-topic, but while looking at Van's map, I noticed some weird writing on the roofs of some apartments....??

huhav3.jpg


Nose raur? rour? what?
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

That's been there for a long time and I still have no idea.

"Nose Boub"?
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

The park should be where it is built. It can probably fit a Hilton size tower. I like that area though. From where I work there, you can see so much variety in types of architecture. You see the Greek revival, gritty brownstone, and then a modern tower.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

always loved this complex, it was my desktop for a few months. Beautiful church, area makes for some great pictures, especially with the pru and whatnot in the background.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

The NIMBYs would martyr themselves before they let a park get developed.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

I don't know who owns that parking lot on Belvidere street but I know they recently went to the city for a continued use variance. Either way this would be a great place for a tower. The addition to the Hilton was phase 1 of a two phase project. Phase 2 was a very big and I think taller addition to the rear. I have a pic on an old computer I'll try do dig up. There is also a transformer or switching building on Belvidere St that would be nice to see developed.

This is what I found on the city's web site about that triangle:
PUBLIC UNPROTECTED OPEN SPACES
Site Name Acreage Ownership Zoning Protection
Belvidere/Dalton Plaza 0.15 COB/PWD Comm/Special
COB/PWD = City of Boston Public Works Department

The only two places on the CS plaza I could see a tower working is at the junction of the publishing building(who does publishing in the city anymore) and the colonnade building and the second site would be along Huntington Ave beside the tower building, on the other side of Cumberland St. If the new building is on the plaza they have to bring I M Pei(bring him back for the Kennedy Center for the Study of the US Senate too). Maybe it's time to revive the original Hancock design:http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bostonoriginaldesignforka8.jpg for the CS Plaza, and the original Columbia point Kennedy Library design for the Senate center.

Nothing taller than the Greenhouse Apartment building is likely to be built at the Mid Town Motor Inn. A tall building may be acceptable beside Symphony Tower East.
 
Last edited:
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

Wasn't there a past problem with dropping water table levels, resulting in the tearing down of a block of houses across from the Hilton?
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

Wasn't there a past problem with dropping water table levels, resulting in the tearing down of a block of houses across from the Hilton?

Lots of questions in this thread. I'll answer and add some.

Groundwater recharge is an issue in the entire Clearway/St. Germain/Belvidere neighborhood, probably not helped when Christian Science developed as deeply and broadly as they did. In fairness, the importance of groundwater issue in early 70s Boston wasn't as fully recognized as legitimate as it is today.

Under the small plot of land (triangle) is the large oil holding tank that services the campus.

The parking lot run by the FitzInn brothers on Belvidere is a different parking lot than the one across alley on (south) Dalton. Two different owners. The Abbey Group manages the residential lot and buildings.

Someone once told me that some other project rejected acres of dressed marble, that Christian Science snapped them up for a song and had some more cut to form the sides of what's now the reflecting pool. The church never talks about anything, but surely some of you guys remember? True or tale?

Also, who remembers the recent renovation of the publishing building, and the constant acres of shifting dirt near the apse of the old church?

Finally, the pedestrian/golf cart tunnel across Mass Ave from the Mother Church to Church Park apartments? True or tale? It's obviously possible to move underground between buildings on the campus itself, but across Mass Ave? Was the city that deep into the church's pocket at the time?
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

Is the hotel that everyone is talking about that ultra-shit box hotel that is like 2 stories tall and should only be seen in the run down part of a rural area? If so, I remember walking by that hotel like 4 years ago when I was in college and thinking "I can't believe that hotel is located there!" and hoping someone would do something about it. If the Christian Science Church owns that plot too, why the heck wouldn't they just destroy that horrid hotel?!
 
Last edited:
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

yes, i believe its called the midtown hotel and it truly does need to be replaced
 

Back
Top