Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay

Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

vanshnookenraggen said:
Cuz they don't own it. Cheaper to build on land you already own.
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They sold the Midtown? Wow, that went quietly.


EDIT: Wait, are you sure? The Midtown wasn't subject to the zoning of the Pei campus plan, but was still owned by the church.

LMP's website published this in late 2006:

The Midtown Hotel, a long structure across Huntington Avenue from the church, is leased out and is not part of the new planning effort.
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The Globe also had an article in 2005 with a graphic showing ownership of the parcel (which is taxed).

I've been following activity around the church for a few years, and am curious if I missed the sale (and wonder how it went so quietly, especially given the PR at the sale of 154-174 Mass Ave).
 
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

Imagine if they could get the 92 year old Pei to design the tower to replace the Midtown. Doesn't he have a son, or some other protege, to continue his work?
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

He does and his work now is just crap. Let someone else have a shot.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

With all the brutalist abominations in the city, lets just change the one that actually works. Gotta love it.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

Why can't they demolish the Midtown hotel and build on top of that?

And I thought the reflecting pool was an integral part of their HVAC system.

vanshnookenraggen said:
I was mistaken.



Good question!
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V, you may have been saying that tongue in cheek, but Ron certainly wasn't. These kind of posts drive me absolutely batty. To be clear, I hate the idea of making any fundamental changes to this Christian Science complex. But, THEY AREN'T DOING IT BECAUSE THEY NEED MORE SPACE!!! If they were actually a growing entity then buying the midtown from Druker may be worth considering. BUT THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A TACTIC DESIGNED TO GENERATE INCOME. So shelling out millions to Ron Druker is precisely the opposite of what they hope to achieve. They want to shore up their financial house by selling developable space.

I think a well designed steel and glass project between the reflecting pool and huntington avenue would be worth considering. And the triangular parcel at Dalton and Belvidere is ripe for development. Anywhere else would destroy Pei's vision.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

I'm confused -- when did the Christian Science Church sell the Midtown hotel? My post was predicated on the assumption that they still owned it.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

I don't know if they did. I thought they didn't own it but I was wrong. From the article it seems like they are just leasing the space.

@sidewalks I wasn't being tongue and cheek, I want to see that motel go.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

FYI, to my knowledge, they have NOT sold the property the Midtown is on. The motor inn itself is under a long-term/99 lease for operation by whatever company is actually operating it. (Where did Druker come from, Sidewalks?)

As far as the campus proper (14 acres north of Huntington and west of Mass Ave, excluding the apartment complex over CVS/Boston Market/Radio Shack), it is a special zoning district with a master plan. The original is over 30 years old, and in dire need of an update. The hodge-podge way they've gone about consolidation has improved church finances, but done little in the way of ensuring some sort of public input on use in the tower and collonade buildings.

The CAC for this is huge, and while the first few meetings have been vague meet-and-greets, I suspect their real plans have just started percolating out.

On the reflecting pool, I don't think that was originally part of project. The apocryphal tale is that the GC stumbled across the marble blocks in a salvage yard---they were dressed to the wrong size for another project entirely. He convinced Pei to convince FCCS to build a reflecting pool---a decision they apparently regretting for years, since the thing leaked. All just a tale, but variations of which I've heard from a few people. A side benefit of the pool is that it would keep the garage cool, but no more so than 12" of dirt supporting soft scape. I even think somewhere on this site is the original proposal showing a sunken plaza with marble benches, the triplets of what is currently along Huntington Ave.

EDIT: Oh Jesus, I'm getting old. I asked my reflecting pool question on the first page of this thread. Sorry, now I feel I'm perpetuating what could be a myth.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

Don't they also own another block of low-rise commercial storefronts on Mass. Ave.that they could sell to Berklee (besides the one they already recently sold)?
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

see page 30:
http://www.bostonredevelopmentautho... Meeting 3 PowerPoint Presentation 4-2-09.pdf


and:

http://www.bostonredevelopmentautho... Science Plaza CAC Meeting 3 Notes 4.2.09.pdf
Questions and comments raised in response to the presentation included:
? In response to a question from Sybil CooperKing, Neighborhood Association of the Back
Bay, Barbara responded that the ground leases on some of the adjacent properties owned
by the Church (i.e., the Midtown Hotel, Symphony Towers) will not expire for many years,
and will be reviewed in the future as part of a separate process.
? In response to a question from Massachusetts State Representative Byron Rushing, Barbara
indicated that the Church retains the option in the very distant future to purchase Church
Park Apartments and the Greenhouse Apartments.
? Lee Steele asked for a clarification about the wood piles underneath the Church. Bob
Herlinger replied that there are more than 50 test pits within the site that are monitored
regularly.
? Donald Margotta, Church Park Apartments, asked about the importance of the reflecting
pool to the philosophy of the Church. Bob Herlinger indicated that the reflecting pool is an
integral element of the site?s landscape design, and expresses the universal qualities of
reflectivity and peacefulness, rather than being specifically tied to the Church?s beliefs.
? Representative Rushing asked if the original design of the reflecting pool included any
features to capture the water and use it elsewhere on the site. Bob Herlinger responded
that for the most part, this is not the case, and despite the original intent of the design, this
feature was never realized. Harley Gates, also a member of the Church Team, added that
the Childrens Fountain does recycle its water, however. Bob Herlinger stated that Araldo
Cossutta originally meant for the reflecting pool to be filled with water year-round, but this
notion was abandoned after the energy crisis in the 1970s.
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

My understanding was that Druker owned the Midtown. Based on this link he does appear to have control of it: http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_z4yp0

If I am mistaken and it is owned by the Church, then I apologize for mischaraterizing the situation.

I would love to see the hotel demolished and if the Church has control they should absolutely permit density there instead of tampering with Pei's creation. My guess is that they don't have control which is why they opted not to permit new development on the parcel.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

It certainly has the hallmarks of a Druker controlled property.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

Next meeting:
Christian Science Plaza Revitalization Project CAC
Wednesday, June 10, 2009
8:00 am - 9:30 am

Division-Department: Planning and Zoning - BRA
Description: Christian Science Plaza Revitalization Project CAC Meeting #6
Location: First Church of Christ, Scientist Christian Science Publishing House Building 210 Massachusetts Avenue (enter at the Christian Science Monitor entrance)
Neighborhood: Citywide
Contact: Lauren Shurtleff at (617)918-4353
Email: Lauren.Shurtleff.BRA@cityofboston.gov
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note that is AM
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

The parking lot at 53-61 Belvidere St is up for ZBA re-approval. I don't remember if it was ever decided who owns this lot. It's listed as "Church Realty Trust" so the Church? Probably very lucrative.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

I own it. I plan on putting a 700ft residential tower there. Who's going to stop me?
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

JohnAKeith said:
The parking lot at 53-61 Belvidere St is up for ZBA re-approval. I don't remember if it was ever decided who owns this lot. It's listed as "Church Realty Trust" so the Church? Probably very lucrative.
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My best understanding is that the church owns the property, but the activity is controlled by a (shady?) long-term lease with the family owning the company that's the backer for the St. Germain St trust, who sub-leases 53-61 to the Fitz brothers. It apparently all grew out of the urban renewal deals made to secure the FCCS master plan back in the day.
 
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza

Did anybody read that BRA PDF??? They are going to cut the Reflecting Pool in half, make it smaller, and pave over it. Seems like they are making problems that don't exist. Since when is the reflecting pool a "barrier" to enter the church?
 
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