Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay
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Ron Newman
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
I don't see anything in any of these graphics that suggests the reflecting pool will be reduced in size or built upon.
I don't see anything in any of these graphics that suggests the reflecting pool will be reduced in size or built upon.
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
Yeah, you're right. I got excited for a moment there.
Yeah, you're right. I got excited for a moment there.
armpitsOFmight
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
^^notice how they cut the pool in half?
^^notice how they cut the pool in half?
JohnAKeith
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
Anyone ever tried to walk from the Back Bay to South End through the CS plaza? It's a bitch in the cold weather. Yeah, cutting the pool in half would help that.
#itsallaboutme
Anyone ever tried to walk from the Back Bay to South End through the CS plaza? It's a bitch in the cold weather. Yeah, cutting the pool in half would help that.
#itsallaboutme
Ron Newman
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
Cut in half? No, it looks the same size it is now.
Cut in half? No, it looks the same size it is now.
Ron Newman
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
Oh! Sorry, didn't realize that's what you were all talking about.
Oh! Sorry, didn't realize that's what you were all talking about.
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
Right, the church lady (still blanking on her name!!! SOrry, church lady) made it clear at the first meeting that they don't want to reduce the size of the pool but just make it easier to navigate through and to highlight the old Mother church building. The foamcore model shows a diagonal cut meant to reflect the old street cut from the tower to Mass. Ave. but I think they may be leaning toward a perpendicular cut from Hunt. Ave. now.
Right, the church lady (still blanking on her name!!! SOrry, church lady) made it clear at the first meeting that they don't want to reduce the size of the pool but just make it easier to navigate through and to highlight the old Mother church building. The foamcore model shows a diagonal cut meant to reflect the old street cut from the tower to Mass. Ave. but I think they may be leaning toward a perpendicular cut from Hunt. Ave. now.
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
There was a joint taskforce meeting a few weeks ago in preparation for this. I missed it but heard it was essentially preparing the the community for this.
It's not city-owned but the city took over a large portion of the existing FCCS campus by eminent domain in order for the church to expand beyond the three original structures -- Mother church, addition and publishing building. The original planning document expired a while back and they're required to submit a new one I guess. Something to do with size of contiguous property or an agreement with the city at the time? Not sure.
That all being said the church really only has two sensible options for height. 1. Sunday School building 2. triangle/parking lot. (And both were seized by the city for FCCS.)
EDIT: That was unclear. What's now the FCCS campus that wasn't already owned by them was granted to them by the city under urban renewal that expires in 2015.
The original buildings used by FCCS were:
- Mother Church
- Extension to the Mother Church (plopped on the west side)
- CSM Publishing Building
The Pei plan:
- the plaza/reflecting pool
- the Sunday School building
- the Mass. Ave. lawn
- tower
- colonnade
- triangle/service
Other properties:
- parking areas on Belvidere/Dalton
- two buildings on Mass. Ave. (City Sports, now owned by Berklee + Reading Room, still FCCS)
- new Mass. Ave. facade/Mapparium entrance to the CSM publishing building (Pei had a more concrete concept I think. /groans)
- I never bothered to look up the St. Germaine/Clearway deeds but that was somehow part of it.
- Horticulture Hall
Other properties that are a direct product of the same urban renewal plan and connect to it, but are not necessarily owned by the church:
- Symphony East/West (church paid to "replace" lost housing)
- Church Park apartments
- Bread & Circus/garage
- Greenhouse (now in Harold Brown's empire)
There was a joint taskforce meeting a few weeks ago in preparation for this. I missed it but heard it was essentially preparing the the community for this.
It's not city-owned but the city took over a large portion of the existing FCCS campus by eminent domain in order for the church to expand beyond the three original structures -- Mother church, addition and publishing building. The original planning document expired a while back and they're required to submit a new one I guess. Something to do with size of contiguous property or an agreement with the city at the time? Not sure.
That all being said the church really only has two sensible options for height. 1. Sunday School building 2. triangle/parking lot. (And both were seized by the city for FCCS.)
EDIT: That was unclear. What's now the FCCS campus that wasn't already owned by them was granted to them by the city under urban renewal that expires in 2015.
The original buildings used by FCCS were:
- Mother Church
- Extension to the Mother Church (plopped on the west side)
- CSM Publishing Building
The Pei plan:
- the plaza/reflecting pool
- the Sunday School building
- the Mass. Ave. lawn
- tower
- colonnade
- triangle/service
Other properties:
- parking areas on Belvidere/Dalton
- two buildings on Mass. Ave. (City Sports, now owned by Berklee + Reading Room, still FCCS)
- new Mass. Ave. facade/Mapparium entrance to the CSM publishing building (Pei had a more concrete concept I think. /groans)
- I never bothered to look up the St. Germaine/Clearway deeds but that was somehow part of it.
- Horticulture Hall
Other properties that are a direct product of the same urban renewal plan and connect to it, but are not necessarily owned by the church:
- Symphony East/West (church paid to "replace" lost housing)
- Church Park apartments
- Bread & Circus/garage
- Greenhouse (now in Harold Brown's empire)
Last edited:
Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
Unclear, sorry. Where the Sunday School building is was given to the church during gentrification. It was a movie house (Ron?) before. Built in a style similar to Horticulture Hall. Someone with more time than me might find info on the campus plan at BPL, maybe even online. I need to go home now though!
I meant that the Sunday School building and the triangle are the only two logical candidates for height in today's political atmosphere. Unless they're bold enough to build on the Mass. Ave. lawn or the floral colonnade on the south side of the reflecting pool. Or by demolishing the fleatrap of a hotel across Huntington.........AHEM.
Unclear, sorry. Where the Sunday School building is was given to the church during gentrification. It was a movie house (Ron?) before. Built in a style similar to Horticulture Hall. Someone with more time than me might find info on the campus plan at BPL, maybe even online. I need to go home now though!
I meant that the Sunday School building and the triangle are the only two logical candidates for height in today's political atmosphere. Unless they're bold enough to build on the Mass. Ave. lawn or the floral colonnade on the south side of the reflecting pool. Or by demolishing the fleatrap of a hotel across Huntington.........AHEM.
Ron Newman
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
The Sunday School building is on the former site of the Uptown Theatre, originally built as Chickering Hall and also at once time called the St. James Theatre. In its early years, this theatre was home to Emerson College.
Further up Huntington Avenue, the Strand Theatre was also lost to Christian Science expansion. I think the high-rise is located approximately where the Strand once stood.
The Sunday School building is on the former site of the Uptown Theatre, originally built as Chickering Hall and also at once time called the St. James Theatre. In its early years, this theatre was home to Emerson College.
Further up Huntington Avenue, the Strand Theatre was also lost to Christian Science expansion. I think the high-rise is located approximately where the Strand once stood.
GW2500
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
See those 4 rows of townhouses in that diagram. Probably 1000 - 2000 people who CHOSE to live the heart of the city. They will fight all of this and Berklee tooth and nail. If they were all to get built life would be the same, but these people think jobs and maximizing a tranist infastructure are bad things.
See those 4 rows of townhouses in that diagram. Probably 1000 - 2000 people who CHOSE to live the heart of the city. They will fight all of this and Berklee tooth and nail. If they were all to get built life would be the same, but these people think jobs and maximizing a tranist infastructure are bad things.
Ron Newman
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
Wait - where does either CSC's or Berklee's plan involve razing 4 rows of townhouses?
Wait - where does either CSC's or Berklee's plan involve razing 4 rows of townhouses?
kz1000ps
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Re: New tower at Christian Science Church Plaza
I doubt it, most (if not all) of those are rentals.
I doubt it, most (if not all) of those are rentals.