General Boston Discussion

[Blackbird]

Sadly, not remotely surprising.... but I find it extremely hard to believe metro Boston's traffic is meaningfully (*statistically significantly*) worse than other great metros across the country.

For example, here's 3 other 37-mile itineraries I just mapped-out:

1.) LA: From the intersection of Hwy 39 and I-10 in Covina, I-10 all the way west through Downtown to Santa Monica Pier.

I'd be astonished if you could ever do those drives mid-day, workweek, in less than 80 minutes.

Edit: Didn’t get to check today, but will report back if/when I do.

Here’s your first one at least. Same local time as my trip from hell last week. (2-2:30pm)

And again: this goes through downtown. The gps specifically routed me around the city via 128 to get from Medford to Foxborough in order to avoid traffic. It still took 1hr 20min. There were no accidents.

 

[DBM]

Here’s your first one at least. Same local time as my trip from hell last week. (2-2:30pm)

View attachment 50678

And again: this goes through downtown. The gps specifically routed me around the city via 128 to get from Medford to Foxborough in order to avoid traffic. It still took 1hr 20min. There were no accidents.

Genuinely glad you're following-up on this and very curious to see more results... however, assuming you did your metro Boston drive mid-week (i.e., Tues/Weds/Thurs), shouldn't you also be doing these comparative tests mid-week as well, on the assumption that, nationwide post-pandemic, metro highways are much more jammed midweek, with office commuters, than the rest of the week?

 

[Justbuildit]

So the sky isn’t falling because the millionaires have all left? Quoting an old reply about potential surpluses and deficits. Thrilled the Commonwealth is 20% over expectations and that they’re remaining prudent about fiscal questions until things settle for awhile

Surpluses are good, especially when they’re legally bound to transportation and education spending. Hopefully some of this can go to offset MBTA budget woes.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/20/metro/millionaires-tax-massachusetts-generated-18-billion/

State officials said Monday that the voter-approved surtax on high earners has generated more than $1.8 billion in revenue this fiscal year — with still three months left to go — meaning state officials could have hundreds of millions of surplus dollars to spend on transportation and education initiatives.

 

[as02143]

Surpluses are good, especially when they’re legally bound to transportation and education spending. Hopefully some of this can go to offset MBTA budget woes.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/20/metro/millionaires-tax-massachusetts-generated-18-billion/

State officials said Monday that the voter-approved surtax on high earners has generated more than $1.8 billion in revenue this fiscal year — with still three months left to go — meaning state officials could have hundreds of millions of surplus dollars to spend on transportation and education initiatives.

I'm wondering - if this millionaires tax is just 4% on income above $1 million --- how much income does this represent?!

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

Without reading the fine print- Millionaires Tax 4% is also on assets that are sold for over Million dollars.
Just intime as the average for housing increases in around Boston to 1 Million dollars.

MSN

It's amazing how the Democrats are for the people granted nobody can afford to live near the cities anymore.

 

[Justbuildit]

Housing is expensive! It’s also a sign of extremely high demand to live in the Boston area. So, I hope you are actively engaged in the civic process of zoning for more affordable and missing middle housing in Eastern Massachusetts. Let’s tell those meddlesome ivory tower suburbs that they don’t get to block construction of reasonable townhomes for teachers and firefighters. Let’s support the MBTA in providing better transit to Boston so people don’t have to pay to park and be miserable in traffic commuting from reasonably priced exurbs.

And FYI, the fine print tells us that the $1,000,000 threshold adjusts for inflation, so this year it was $1,053,750 and will increase in future years. Flatlining housing prices will spare some dear residents from paying a marginal 4% surcharge.

4% Surtax on Taxable Income Over $1,000,000

Beginning with tax year 2023, personal income taxpayers, subject to chapter 62, must pay an additional 4% surtax on taxable income over $1,000,000, increased annually for inflation.

www.mass.gov

 

[jklo]

Without reading the fine print- Millionaires Tax 4% is also on assets that are sold for over Million dollars.
Just intime as the average for housing increases in around Boston to 1 Million dollars.

I'd have to think it'd be the net profit? So if you bought a place for 300k and you sold it for a million, that wouldn't be enough to trigger the tax. Although that doesn't include any other income either.

Housing is expensive!

Yes

It’s also a sign of extremely high demand to live in the Boston area.

Sort of. A lot of people are here because their job is here. And their job is here because Corpos love College Grads. Which Boston has an ton of. Just gotta do what you can.

Let’s tell those meddlesome ivory tower suburbs that they don’t get to block construction of reasonable townhomes for teachers and firefighters.

600k is a ton of money. People will pay that for SFH, but not for condos and TH in the burbs.

Let’s support the MBTA in providing better transit to Boston so people don’t have to pay to park and be miserable in traffic commuting from reasonably priced exurbs.

The exurbs are still pricey, if you demand an SFH and nothing else.

The solution is and continues to be that you build as dense as possible in the Inner Core, and use shacking up to make the numbers work. It doesn't work in the burbs because you need a car.

 

[Justbuildit]

Sort of. A lot of people are here because their job is here. And their job is here because Corpos love College Grads. Which Boston has an ton of. Just gotta do what you can.

This is "demand". I didn't say people live in Boston because they love the weather and food. Cities have always been about jobs and human capital and that remains true today. Demand is also the other side of supply, and we don't build enough to begin with, hence prices are high. It's driven by demand.

600k is a ton of money. People will pay that for SFH, but not for condos and TH in the burbs.

Here are 167 condos and townhouses that have recently sold for over $550k in Hingham...there is demand for multifamily even in SFH-rich suburbs.

The exurbs are still pricey, if you demand an SFH and nothing else.

Then I would simply zone for more multifamily housing and townhouses near transit outside of Route 128.



My tone to the original response was more sarcastic than anything. Housing is expensive here and more than anything it's because of a failure to build, both in Boston AND in the suburbs. A million dollar house in Framingham is not a sign of a specific political party not being for the people, it's due to cities not adapting to the realities of a growing region. But hey, property owners get their way and their asset gets inflated while anyone who's slightly later to the game gets left in the cold and has to move to another state.

As my username would suggest, I'm massively in favor of expanding multifamily housing in Boston proper, and I'm glad the highest earners from across the Commonwealth are directly contributing to education and transit.

 

[kmp1284]

Surpluses are good, especially when they’re legally bound to transportation and education spending. Hopefully some of this can go to offset MBTA budget woes.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/20/metro/millionaires-tax-massachusetts-generated-18-billion/

State officials said Monday that the voter-approved surtax on high earners has generated more than $1.8 billion in revenue this fiscal year — with still three months left to go — meaning state officials could have hundreds of millions of surplus dollars to spend on transportation and education initiatives.

I’d hold off a few years before declaring victory. This kind of planning for both business owners and high income families often takes time. I’m sure this will be the beginning of a long slide in state tax revenue.

 

[bigpicture7]

I’d hold off a few years before declaring victory. This kind of planning for both business owners and high income families often takes time. I’m sure this will be the beginning of a long slide in state tax revenue.

That's right, it does take some time for a rotting MBTA to make people to realize such makes their life significantly worse (even if they themselves don't use the MBTA). So we better use this new tax revenue quickly to fix the T, otherwise people will start to leave greater Boston.

 

[Justbuildit]

I’d hold off a few years before declaring victory. This kind of planning for both business owners and high income families often takes time. I’m sure this will be the beginning of a long slide in state tax revenue.

Claiming general victory would be a mistake, but so would just guessing that things are surely going downhill from here. What we do know is this year’s revenue was well above expectation and that money is now here to be deployed for transit and education. This revenue also made school lunch free across the commonwealth for all kids.

On balance I agree that Mass revenue could start to decrease, but I also bet that’s going to be from normal working people who can’t afford to live here anymore.

 

[kmp1284]

Well yeah, obviously they should do whatever they can with that money to make MA more desirable to outside investment while it lasts but free school lunch is something the state should have been able to do without having to enact a penalty on higher income individuals. It sure as hell isn’t going to attract the kind of people MA used to appeal to.

 

[commuter guy]

I’d hold off a few years before declaring victory. This kind of planning for both business owners and high income families often takes time. I’m sure this will be the beginning of a long slide in state tax revenue.

I too wonder what the long term holds, it's obvious that the extra 4% tax will generate income in the near term. This year even more than expected, perhaps because the stock market has been on a tear so capital gain taxes are up and home values are up as well. We know there has been and continues to be a net migration from Massachusetts of high income taxpayers to other states, if a more progressive state tax system accelerates this out migration, even if it's only incrementally, then eventually after many years the complete removal of this tax base could end outweighing the surtax collections and end up being a net loss for the state. I guess only time will tell.

 

[KentXie]

I don't check in here as often as I used to. (Daily for many many years) This traffic thing, however, I have to respond to. Gimme a break. I agree with Bronson. Bangkok anyone? Talk about sitting in traffic! It's every driver for himself! The rules of the road be damned. Crowded and dangerous. Boston worse than that?

I can name other places. Many. I'm sure you all can too. In the US New York and Los Angeles to my mind are far worse than Boston. It's not even close. Navigating the copious potholes in LA makes that city alone hands down worse.

One other thing, since I'm online and writing anyway - I'll tell you what we do stand out for: Cleanliness. Don't laugh. I'm serious. Every time I return I have the same impression; beyond how pretty our city is - how remarkably tidy it is. The nice parts anyway. (I can think of a few places that could use a good power wash. But not many.)

I asked my cabbie recently as we departed Logan and headed into the city. "What is the one comment you hear most from tourists?" He didn't bat an eye, "How clean the city is." He said Europeans in particular remark on this. Interesting. I'd agree.

Wanted to end my post on a positive note...

Los Angeles traffic is no where as bad as Boston. There is a misconception that LA traffic is bad but the real problem with driving in LA is the distance to get to anywhere. You're usually still traveling at around 20 mph in LA traffic.

In Boston, I've experienced sitting in traffic for 1 hr just to travel 4 miles (Downtown Boston to Brighton) which is absolutely wild (because I can walk faster than that)

 

[Blackbird]

Genuinely glad you're following-up on this and very curious to see more results... however, assuming you did your metro Boston drive mid-week (i.e., Tues/Weds/Thurs), shouldn't you also be doing these comparative tests mid-week as well, on the assumption that, nationwide post-pandemic, metro highways are much more jammed midweek, with office commuters, than the rest of the week?

So, needy. Here are the 3 east coast routes now. I used the version of the route for Boston that goes through downtown since the two others do that too. Google says you can save time by going 128 (which is what it said last time too), but I’m not sure if I really trust it. I’ll try to remember to look at LA again later today.

Hopefully this convinces you that at the very least the other 2 places aren’t worse than Boston. The NYC route is admittedly comparable.

And I can understand the urge to claim that Boston must be better in terms of traffic than these 3 cities. For one thing, LA and Atlanta are built to be more auto-centric so you’d think they’d naturally have more car congestion. NYC is one of [if not the most] densely populated urban centers in the western hemisphere, so sure it should have congestion. The second thing is that all 3 of the cities have traffic as part of their culture. People I’ve met from them are practically proud of how bad their traffic is and are almost giddy whenever they get a chance to talk/complain about it. None of these things is really true about Boston.

The reason we have such bad traffic isn’t because we’re car-centric or densely populated. Rather we’re just really really bad at infrastructure maintenance and expansion. And while having bad drivers is part of our cultural brand, traffic isn’t. So Bostonians don’t talk about the traffic as much to tourists, and congestion isn’t featured in movies about the city.

 

[stick n move]

Some in Brookline think it's time for New England's largest town to become a middling-sized city​

“Brookline.News reports on efforts by a group to get enough signatures for a ballot question on converting the town into a city.

Brookline, with a population of about 62,000, assumed the mantle of the region's largest town in 2018, when, after a similar vote, the town of Framingham, with a population of about 71,000, became the city of Framingham….”

https://www.universalhub.com/2024/some-brookline-think-its-time-new-englands-largest

 

[beck4537]

Waiting for the Economic Apocalypse

Hybrid schedules and fewer office workers are causing buildings in Boston to sit empty and property values to plummet, which could mean less tax revenue, fewer city services, and ultimately fewer residents. Welcome to the Doom Loop. Everybody’s talking about it—but are our leaders doing anything...

www.bostonmagazine.com

 

[kdmc]

Waiting for the Economic Apocalypse

Hybrid schedules and fewer office workers are causing buildings in Boston to sit empty and property values to plummet, which could mean less tax revenue, fewer city services, and ultimately fewer residents. Welcome to the Doom Loop. Everybody’s talking about it—but are our leaders doing anything...

www.bostonmagazine.com

FTA:

> So it was little wonder when, two weeks after the New England Council event, Wu proposed a solution to combatting the so-called doom loop that has been likened to slapping a surtax on snow shovels right before a snowstorm—a home-rule petition seeking necessary permission from the state legislature to sharply increase the city’s commercial property tax rate.

Well, taxing snow shovels right before a snowstorm would be a great idea if you're trying to raise revenue. If I'm to take the article's point of view, Wu's proposal is like taxing show shovels during a heat wave.

 

[393b40]

I have zero confidence in Wu or really any Boston area leadership to solve this problem. They're all beholden to interests that would prefer to pretend the problem isn't really happening or are too old to grapple with the shell-shock of generational shift in the workplace.

I just don't see commercial office real estate recovering. That's going to require radical rethinking of policies in the area and Massachusetts moves like molasses.

 

[commuter guy]

Anecdotally, relative to other major cities, it does seem to me that Mayor Wu and the city leadership have been very complacent in regard to trying to spark economic activity. The talking points are very often about equity and climate goals and while these are often worthwhile efforts, it shouldn't be at the expense of failing to adequately respond to Covid's impact on the downtown core or the overall business climate.