General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

Brattle Loop said:
Apparently it was one of the Budd RDCs abandoned for years over by the Orange Line.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1568779356553478144
Click to expand...
Quite the circular buck passing going on for this one, concisely summarized by the Globe.
Screenshot_20220910_231451.jpg

Other than that though: the MBTA still has RDCs on property‽ When was the last time the things ran in revenue service, the 1980s? I thought there was a typo until I checked the roster site. I get that they were sold and never removed, but surely some sort of removal covenant/clause or abandonment could have been assessed for the T to re-auction the things. Is that storage track so rarely used that these were just... Not in the way? Not even worth dragging to Rochester?
 
Stlin said:
Other than that though: the MBTA still has RDCs on property‽ When was the last time the things ran in revenue service, the 1980s? I thought there was a typo until I checked the roster site. I get that they were sold and never removed, but surely some sort of removal covenant/clause or abandonment could have been assessed for the T to re-auction the things. Is that storage track so rarely used that these were just... Not in the way? Not even worth dragging to Rochester?
Click to expand...

Those things have been there for the better part of two decades. At some point maybe ten years ago or thereabouts a bunch more dead equipment (including, I think, an ex-Amtrak MHC) got shoved over there with the Buddliners (Quite possibly including the several cars abandoned, and possibly partially derailed, on a spur on the Fitchburg I recall seeing every day for three years when that was my commute...). That track seems like it connects to one of the Boston Sand & Gravel lead tracks that frequently has cars parked on it (and over the switch), and I'm pretty sure it's not connected to anything at the outbound end, making it effectively useless for anything but cold storage. I recall hearing somewhere that the RDCs are on shop trucks, I dunno if that'd preclude moving them to Rochester even if they wanted to.
 
Stlin said:
Quite the circular buck passing going on for this one, concisely summarized by the Globe.
View attachment 28338
Other than that though: the MBTA still has RDCs on property‽ When was the last time the things ran in revenue service, the 1980s? I thought there was a typo until I checked the roster site. I get that they were sold and never removed, but surely some sort of removal covenant/clause or abandonment could have been assessed for the T to re-auction the things. Is that storage track so rarely used that these were just... Not in the way? Not even worth dragging to Rochester?
Click to expand...
They last ran as push-pull coaches in 1989. Were sold for scrap almost 2 decades ago but the buyer never picked them up. The T had some plans around the 2004 Democratic Convention to spiff them up into office trailers...plan never went anywhere. They've simply been shoved around BET all this time. This isn't the first time they've been arsoned, either.

Brattle Loop said:
Those things have been there for the better part of two decades. At some point maybe ten years ago or thereabouts a bunch more dead equipment (including, I think, an ex-Amtrak MHC) got shoved over there with the Buddliners (Quite possibly including the several cars abandoned, and possibly partially derailed, on a spur on the Fitchburg I recall seeing every day for three years when that was my commute...). That track seems like it connects to one of the Boston Sand & Gravel lead tracks that frequently has cars parked on it (and over the switch), and I'm pretty sure it's not connected to anything at the outbound end, making it effectively useless for anything but cold storage. I recall hearing somewhere that the RDCs are on shop trucks, I dunno if that'd preclude moving them to Rochester even if they wanted to.
Click to expand...
Correct. Most of the refuse was cleaned up the last few years to make more room in anticipation of GLX construction coming onsite, with what's left being taken out to Billerica, Rochester, and other nooks-and-crannies (there's some scrap gondolas still rotting at Wakefield Junction on the abandoned branch, for instance). The RDC's stayed put. No idea why...maybe their shop trucks weren't roadworthy enough to move.
 
They moved on Easter Sunday 4/19/03 to Somerville, Ma. on shop trucks. As far as I know, they were already up in Billerica on those trucks. The RDC's also moved under a FRA waiver,
using loaded ballast hoppers and runaround air hoses for the move to BET. Plans were to convert both cars to crew quarters at North Station for the duration of the Democratic National Convention July 2004.
This did not happen and they remained stored at FX as of 2005. Cars were restenciled to MBTX for the move. Looks like the 6213 was the major victim in the fire, while the other Budd was largely unscathed.
 
And their last claim to fame was a brief cameo in the Bed Affleck film "The Town"!
 
www.nbcboston.com

Sparks, Smoke at MBTA Station After Wiring Falls on Tracks, Snarling Green Line

Smoke and intense sparks were seen at the MBTA’s Park Street Station in Boston Sunday after overhead wiring fell onto Green Line tracks near one of the platforms. No one was hurt, the MBTA said, but Green Line service was suspended between Government Center and Kenmore Square for hours Sunday...
www.nbcboston.com www.nbcboston.com
Smoke and intense sparks were seen at the MBTA's Park Street Station in Boston Sunday after overhead wiring fell onto Green Line tracks near one of the platforms.

No one was hurt, the MBTA said, but Green Line service was suspended between Government Center and Kenmore Square, with shuttle buses replacing trolley service.

Video from riders waiting to board showed loud sparks spitting from the tracks, with customers running from a train.
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/x/status/1569041939118395399
 
Ok yeah I think it is time to throw the whole MBTA away.

And by that, I mean shut down each line in sequence for a complete overhaul
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Generally a percentage complete generally refers to the percent of budgeted money that has been spent (which in turns relates the amount of budgeted time used). It doesn't move linearly with time though, some work tasks are more expensive and will move the percent more than others.
Click to expand...

Just a minor nitpick based on my experience w/ cost tracking during project management for gov contracts:
The percentage complete usually refers to budgeted money tied to task closure at a given point in time, as a proportion of the total budgeted money. If I establish up front that Task A is a $1M task and the total project budget is $10M, and I complete Task A, then I can say the project is 10% complete. If I spend $1M and no tasks have been closed yet, I am still at 0% complete.

EDIT: hence is also why your %complete and your budget status can differ, for instance, if you are overspending. For example, I can be at 50% complete per plan, and, in parallel, be at an over-budget status if the $ it took to get you to 50% complete exceeded plan.
 
Last edited:
Right, that's how it's *supposed* to work, but I find it rather telling that the completion % they keep announcing are EXACTLY in line with calendar time. Like, the 69% complete announcement came only a few hours before 69% of the time had elapsed. Hour-by-hour accuracy makes me pretty skeptical they are being honest.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1570812380988178435

I don't know about the legitimacy of the percentages but they are claiming 96%. Personally, I find it ideal when it was presented like this graphic. Percentages are nice, but X number of track replaces and X number of Cologne Eggs are raw numbers that fully undeniable. Unfortunately the updates are only done weekly and the last one stopped using that graphic in favor of others.

FWIW, the Twitter video noted 400 Cologne Eggs, 12,320 ft of rail, 3,500 ft of full depth track, and 100% of special track work. I don't know if it fits 1:1 with the graphic. If it does, then I would map the "12,320 ft of rail" to the graphic's "14,000 ft of Rail Replacement" and "3,500 ft of full depth track" to be "3,500 ft of Track Replacement". Which concerningly means they fell short on that but reach target on everything else. Though they still have the weekend, but still.

Ultimately the real test is the experience after this is over - slow zones, track fires, dead trains, "signal problems", giant-spectacle-train-fire, any-walk-on-track-scenario, and any scenarios we haven't experience. While the work can't help with other passengers, electrical blackouts, or other issues I can't think up right now. There should be a payoff in this.
 
There will likely be a noticeable improvement, but I'm afraid the T isn't being clear this isn't over for the Orange Line. There's a LOT more full depth track renewal that was outlined years ago as part of the initial announcement of the "Orange Line Transformation" program. I can't find the presentation anymore, but it outlined ~58,000 feet of renewal required by 2025, IIRC.
 
stefal said:
There will likely be a noticeable improvement, but I'm afraid the T isn't being clear this isn't over for the Orange Line. There's a LOT more full depth track renewal that was outlined years ago as part of the initial announcement of the "Orange Line Transformation" program. I can't find the presentation anymore, but it outlined ~58,000 feet of renewal required by 2025, IIRC.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I noticed that too. First, this is the presentation that you're looking for - https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/...ay-attainment-maintenance-plan-accessible.pdf

That said, since I noticed that took. I posted and did got one analysis in the MBTA "Transformation" (Green Line, Red Line, & Orange Line Transformation Projects) thread (hmm Jahvon does kinda have a point it can be a little confusing with all the different threads).

There's a bit of a semi-rebuttal that the numbers is total cumulative work and there has been work done before the shutdown. Namely the claim of like 3.5 miles of OL track replacement already done claimed back in 2020. With a strong caveat that things could have decayed faster or other factors that is just we can't know because there's no public information.

So given the lack of public information, this does raises a concern that this shutdown - a shutdown that should be viewed as a emergency action to truly rip-the-bandaid type of moment - is only the first several that eventually normalizes the practice despite other systems (to my knowledge) does not have to do just to provide the remaining level of service (or worse, a spiral of reduced service)
 
737900er said:
Except they were only able to do this because they're still running reduced service.
Click to expand...
Oh I know. I'm just surprised that they have enough sets to run 10 complete trains.

But between the limited train sets and the speed restrictions, it seems like today's commute wasn't fun.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top