General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

The Ashmont Mattapan line can't go on forever with those trains. They need to find a way to convert it to green line trains or BRT.

I always thought it was a weird ass place to have antique trains rolling around. Elsewhere in Boston it would be a tourist attraction, but the vast majority of tourists are not going to venture out to Mattapan.
 
tysmith95 said:
The Ashmont Mattapan line can't go on forever with those trains. They need to find a way to convert it to green line trains or BRT.
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I would think ideally it would just become a real part of the Red line instead of the trolley. Maybe it will increase Fairmount ridership if it really ends up being indefinite.
 
jklo said:
I would think ideally it would just become a real part of the Red line instead of the trolley. Maybe it will increase Fairmount ridership if it really ends up being indefinite.
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A big negative with the Fairmount line is frequencies, and that isn't going to change until we get a NSRL or South Station Expansion.
 
KentXie said:
My B line ride today was:

Board B line train at Park Street
Driver kicks everyone off at Kenmore
Board next B line train
Driver makes announcement that it will be standing by due to train at platform ahead (the very same train they kicked us off of)
Few stops later, driver makes announcement that it will be standing by due to a schedule adjustment
Train on standby for more the 8 minutes
Decides to get off the train and walk home
Walks to the next stop to see train sitting there with passengers, the very same train that I got kicked off of
Train had kicked passengers off at Kenmore for no reason
This occurred 2 hours after a disabled train at Sunderland Road. 2 hrs and there's still "moderate residual delays"

This is why I'm a bitter Bostonian
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So utterly ridiculous to have gone though that crap!! :mad:
 
The MBTA would L O V E to bustitute this line. It would be such a loss. But extending the heavy rail Red Line would require an overpass at Central Ave and Capen St which is 1) expensive and 2) going to bring the ire of Milton NIMBYs (especially along Eliot St). You'd basically have to have Milton and Mattapan come out and fight FOR Red Line to keep seeing trains down there and I don't think that's going to happen (Mattapan yes, Milton no).

An RL extension would only have 2 stations, Lower Mills and Mattapan and I'm not sure Lower Mills can really justify the cost. Mattapan would be a more obvious choice if it wasn't for the new Blue Hills Ave station going in. You know the MBTA is going to say that's enough and call it a day.

IF the MBTA is going to keep running this as a trolley then you need to see the state rep from Milton step in and find funding to buy some new trolleys for the line. It would be nice to have modern low floor cars to make the line ADA compliant. The state rep, William Driscoll is on the Transportation Committee so maybe that's a help.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
The MBTA would L O V E to bustitute this line. It would be such a loss. But extending the heavy rail Red Line would require an overpass at Central Ave and Capen St which is 1) expensive and 2) going to bring the ire of Milton NIMBYs (especially along Eliot St). You'd basically have to have Milton and Mattapan come out and fight FOR Red Line to keep seeing trains down there and I don't think that's going to happen (Mattapan yes, Milton no).

An RL extension would only have 2 stations, Lower Mills and Mattapan and I'm not sure Lower Mills can really justify the cost. Mattapan would be a more obvious choice if it wasn't for the new Blue Hills Ave station going in. You know the MBTA is going to say that's enough and call it a day.

IF the MBTA is going to keep running this as a trolley then you need to see the state rep from Milton step in and find funding to buy some new trolleys for the line. It would be nice to have modern low floor cars to make the line ADA compliant. The state rep, William Driscoll is on the Transportation Committee so maybe that's a help.
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I believe they are spending about $8 million on rebuilding the existing PCCs. The line itself, even with PCCs is already fully ADA compliant (with the one allowed exception), too. That said - I have noticed they are running the buses at even greater frequency than the trolleys, the conspiracy theorist in me makes me think it is to try to show people that buses aren't as bad/run more frequently than the trolley.
 
Bottom line; They're just going to have to get down to brass knuckles & consider replacing the old trolleys with new & update equipment, just like they are replacing all the old railcars on both the Red & Orange Lines.
 
Jahvon09 said:
Bottom line; They're just going to have to get down to brass knuckles & consider replacing the old trolleys with new & update equipment, just like they are replacing all the old railcars on both the Red & Orange Lines.
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No kidding! Or else we just could stand here and talk until the cows turn blue in the face.
 
Or... spend a few million to rebuild them like they are doing and punt it down the road for another decade (which is what is happening).
 
San Francisco runs heritage trolley cars in service every day. If they can do it, why can't we?
 
cden4 said:
San Francisco runs heritage trolley cars in service every day. If they can do it, why can't we?
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Or just do a PCC-II style full modern rebuild where basically the shells are retained and everything thing else is modernized, like other cities have done.
 
I don't think it's worth it to have the heritage trolleys. In San Francisco it's a tourist attraction. In Boston it's not, tourists don't venture that far south. No need to spend a fortune on fixing up old cars when BRT or regular green line light rail will work fine and be cheaper in the long run.

I think the most cost effective option would be to do something similar to the Silver Line extension in Cheslea.

Probably the preferred option would be to extend the Redline out to Mattapan. Although I honestly think there are other transit needs that should be addressed before that happens. I'd rather see the NSRL and increased rapid transit like frequencies and electrification of the Fairmount Line.

A NSRL and electrification on Fairmount and NBYPT/RKPT and you could put a rapid transit like line that goes from Beverly to Readville. Would add much needed service to the poorer parts of Boston and under-served parts of the North Shore (like Lynn).
 
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tysmith95 said:
I don't think it's worth it to have the heritage trolleys. In San Francisco it's a tourist attraction. In Boston it's not, tourists don't venture that far south. No need to spend a fortune on fixing up old cars when BRT or regular green line light rail will work fine and be cheaper in the long run.

I think the most cost effective option would be to do something similar to the Silver Line extension in Cheslea.

Probably the preferred option would be to extend the Redline out to Mattapan. Although I honestly think there are other transit needs that should be addressed before that happens. I'd rather see the NSRL and increased rapid transit like frequencies and electrification of the Fairmount Line.

A NSRL and electrification on Fairmount and NBYPT/RKPT and you could put a rapid transit like line that goes from Beverly to Readville. Would add much needed service to the poorer parts of Boston and under-served parts of the North Shore (like Lynn).
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Yeah, I agree that it's time to move on, get replacement LRV'S & stop trying to rekindle old flames with those Relics of the Dinosaur Age.

It is impossible to get parts for them & the T has to make or remanufacture the parts for them because they are too old. It should say goodbye & end it's love affair with them. :mad:
 
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Jahvon09 said:
Yeah, I agree that it's time to move on, get replacement LRV'S & stop trying to rekindle old flames with those Relics of the Dinosaur Age.

It is impossible to get parts for them & the T has to make or remanufacture the parts for them because they are too old. It should say goodbye & end their love affair with them. :mad:
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I'd understand if they wanted to keep them because they were a huge tourist attraction that ran in downtown to Fanuiel Hall. That's basically the type of route that it serves in San Fran. But in Dorchester/Mattapan (no offense to anyone who lives there) I don't see the point. I'm sure that most of the riders care more about reliability then having cool looking antique streetcars. No-one except for locals or the occasional transit geek is going to travel to the hood to ride those things.

Plus if you look at SF, a good chunk of the upkeep is privately funded by a non-profit from businesses and residents in the area who want to keep the historic vehicles in service. Plus it costs like 7 bucks to ride the cable cars. It's unfair to ask taxpayers in Massachusetts to spend tons of money trying to keep the antique vehicles in service. Plus in Mattapan no commuters are gonna pay 7 bucks each way to ride those things.

So I love when people point out SF when trying to save the trolleys. Yah SF can do it charging 7 bucks a trip.

Pave it over, put up a bus specific overhead wires and use the same fleet that you have in watertown. If BRT is good enough for the Seaport (it's not but that's another issue) then it's good enough for Mattapan/Milton. Heck this could be better then the Seaport, make it a guided bus lane that can go 40 mph and not the shitty tunnel that they have in the Seaport.
 
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The same reason that they are replacing all of the old trains on the Red & Orange Lines should apply here.

Now, they SHOULD replace them because the propulsion systems on them don't have the right stuff! Houston, we have a problem here!! :eek:
 
Jahvon09 said:
This might be an easy fix;

Make several of THESE for the Mattapan Line, but have them painted in the same color scheme as the new Red Line Railcars! Nice & easy!

No new construction would be needed, except maybe to replace the rails. :cool:


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...S0tFjt_mSXBKf4r_QHH8YCxMT1H9SHdKBTBnYBzu4hE8A
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They would need power upgrades, multiple bridges rebuilt/strengthened, and its questionable if those would fit around the existing loop, not to mention a major overhaul of the Mattapan Yard to be able to service these.
 
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