General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

Delvin4519 said:
The thing about public transportation, is that incidents can occur through no fault of a rider/passenger. Therefore an extremely high standard of safety is required for operations and management of public transportation, since in order to attract customers to use that transportation service, you have to ensure they remain safe and and transported reliably and consistancy, and that the customers come out the other side unscathed every time. The idea of passengers getting injured or maimed on public transportation through no fault of their own, other than that they wanted to use a transportation service and they hopped on a transit vehicle, is cause for a major public safety concern.

The only way to know otherwise is if there is a clear public transportation hazard that was left unaccounted for, and it is visible to passangers' intuition that they need to stay out.

In other cases, if a person decides to operate a privately owned oversized motorized pod with a fuel tank and motor, at speeds humans were never evolved to deal with at human scale/senses (in the US/Canada), then it is their responsiblity for transportaton.

For biking, then it is that cyclist's responsibility for transporting one's self. For walking, then it is that person to watch for hazards.

Of course, there is the case that transportation and urban planning in the US and Canada is fundamentally broken for pedestrians and cyclists, as well as unintuative road design for driving one's personal motorized fuel tank of oil/batteries around. That disccusion can go into the Not Just Bikes & Strong Towns thread to discuss problems NJB explains with US cities, and solutions that are recommended by Strong Towns, as well as methods Dutch traffic engineers use to ensure infrastructure safety for all transportation options.
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Yeah this is nonsense.
 
Delvin4519 said:
The thing about public transportation, is that incidents can occur through no fault of a rider/passenger. Therefore an extremely high standard of safety is required for operations and management of public transportation, since in order to attract customers to use that transportation service, you have to ensure they remain safe and and transported reliably and consistancy, and that the customers come out the other side unscathed every time. The idea of passengers getting injured or maimed on public transportation through no fault of their own, other than that they wanted to use a transportation service and they hopped on a transit vehicle, is cause for a major public safety concern.
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I tend to agree in part with this, in that a public service, of any type, inherently needs to inspire continuing confidence in its patrons. Once you lose it, you start to create anxiety in your patrons, and they will start to look to other options. Be that an airline and it's aircraft, the public health system, a restaurant, or the MBTA. Granted, the T is an essential government service at limited risk of being shut down, but it's lack of ridership is likely corelated with all this. If we use aviation specifically as a high-consequence, high visibility example, There have been studies, polls from the 70s DC10 incidents to the more recent 737 Max - in 2019, just after the maxes were pulled, 20% said they'd be avoiding the Max even after it's been fixed. Losing the confidence of your customers is a big problem - and only through the passage of time and the reality of price and convenience shopping consumers has that mostly been alievated today, at least in the US. A restaurant may never fully recover from a mass food poisoning incident, and the Ford Pinto's "Unsafe at Any Speed" thing has stained that car through today - reputational damage tends to be extremely long lasting.

Even today Boeing's public image is under lasting public scrutiny of it's management practices, and has not yet fully recovered - and the big recent 73M orders have been notably domestic. That trust has not been regained in its entirety. It's why the aviation market is so tightly regulated, with safety a priority - if you want people to trust stepping into a pressurized aluminum can at 38000 feet, something many are already anxious about in the first place, you need them to trust implicitly that they will step out on the other end. The FAAs dual missions are promoting safety and air travel - they're, in truth, two sides the same coin.

At the same time, that confidence/anxiety condition isn't limited to safety - it's also performance, reliability, ease. Staying with the airline analogy - generally, people have little to no qualms flying with Delta, or the other legacy mainline carriers. But Spirit? Frontier? Ryanair? Their cheap tickets are just enough to offset the discomfort, risk of operational catastrophe and lack of customer support.

Basically, once you have something that inspires anxiety in your patrons instead of confidence, you've got a job in front of you to fix it. And sadly, the media tends not to be on your side - after whatever major incident first precipitates that public anxiety, they tend to continue to fuel it by further publicizing things that otherwise may have been just a footnote in a report. That's not to say these things shouldn't be subject to public scrutiny, but it tends to create a bit of an anxiety echo chamber. It's cutting through all of that negativity, with a period of sustained, demonstrated performance with little to no bumps.

In the MBTAs case, the series of incidents that led to the FTA SMI, and the SMI itself - hardly inspire confidence in the system being safe, and we're lucky it's yet to result in significant passenger fatalities. And yes, the speed restrictions probably do help prevent an accident that will actually cause passengers to feel deeply unsafe. Most people are inherently risk adverse - you don't want to descend into the earth to ride a subway knowing it's at risk of breaking down, or derailing, or any manner of incident - you want to feel safe, comfortable, secure that you will get to your destination. And while the recent safety incidents may have dissuaded some from stepping aboard a T train again, it's not just safety - its also passenger anxiety about "will I get to my appointment on time," and "am I confident that I can get there without having to deal with a bus diversion?" If that doesn't yield a "yes", you're likely to choose another mode of travel. I think in too many cases the answer is no, and that's the problem that Eng needs to solve.
 
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Is there no available speed information for MBTA rapid transit and light rail lines?

Only portions of the D branch show up, as well as airport station on the Blue line, and the Mattapan Line. However, the rest of the MBTA subway and light rail system shows as "NO DATA" on the map. Even the Framingham/Worcester Line has no speed information somehow.

Even for the D branch, I'm not sure if the data is correct. Is the D branch revenue trackage through Reservior have a design speed of 35 MPH and not 25 MPH? Is the design speed of the D branch actually 35 MPH, or is it 40 MPH or 50 MPH and the map is just plain wrong?

The existing data for the D branch, Mattapan line, and the BL's Airport station is gonna need to be double checked and revalidated for corrected speed data, and the map needs to show built design speeds (i.e. not slow zone speeds, but the built design speed).

(Note: Commuter Rail lines obscure the rapid transit lines, which is just bad map design to have lower frequency routes overwrite higher frequency ones. However, the Red/Orange/GLX lines have no data available)

Source: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/ (data pulled from https://www.openstreetmap.org/)

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This data is available for all rail, metro, and tram lines in the Netherlands, and it is very detailed. The map of rail and track speeds Netherlands even covers spur tracks, terminal tracks, and loop tracks as well, and matches that in various videos I've found on Youtube. This data is sorely lacking for MBTA rail routes.

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Delvin4519 said:
Is there no available speed information for MBTA rapid transit and light rail lines?

Only portions of the D branch show up, as well as airport station on the Blue line, and the Mattapan Line. However, the rest of the MBTA subway and light rail system shows as "NO DATA" on the map. Even the Framingham/Worcester Line has no speed information somehow.

Even for the D branch, I'm not sure if the data is correct. Is the D branch revenue trackage through Reservior have a design speed of 35 MPH and not 25 MPH? Is the design speed of the D branch actually 35 MPH, or is it 40 MPH or 50 MPH and the map is just plain wrong?
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I’ve used a GPS based speedometer while on a few rapid transit lines multiple times (lame I know) and the D’s surface section from Fenway-Riverside should be accurate as it never exceeded 35mph. The GLX section of the E has trains slightly exceeding 40mph so I’m inclined to believe the 55mph design speed is accurate but the current trains aren’t reliable much above 40 and cannot comfortably exceed that speed in the distance between stops when braking and acceleration is taken into account.
The Orange Line in the SW corridor had trains reaching 40 prior to slow zones.
I’ve recorded 30-35 on Longfellow bridge and under Mass Ave on the Red Line but I’m not sure if there were speed restrictions at the time. The Ashmont Branch has been under slow zones for too long so I’ve only gotten 25 there at the most. The Mattapan Line’s 30 should be accurate but my sample size is only 2 trips.

On the CR side of things I believe the Worcester line has a 70mph speed limit at least to Wellesley, I’ve never recorded it above 70 there on the express to Natick. The same is true of the rest of the line but there are so many curves and grade crossings that I’m unsure of where track design speed is actually changing or it’s just a safety thing. I’ve read it’s 40-60 in parts but can’t find where.

This is all just from my observation though but I hope it gives a better idea of the design speeds.
 
Just some musing from the last week.

So, I used to do the daily commute on the Red (including the Highspeed line) pre-pandemic. Since then I was WFH and switched jobs before the "return to office" (honestly for many different reasons) to a company that continues to be fully remote. So my need to take the T has luckily been pretty low in the recent past. But, here are the two times in the past week that I wanted to take the T, and what happened.

First, I was headed out to Central Ave and the better half had the car. So, I will admit on the way there I was rushing so I opted for a rather cheap rider share and was there in 10 minutes including the wait time. Finished up and had a nice iced tea at the cafe and a breakfast sandwich at Steel and Rye (RIP The Plate, also shout out to Craft and Crue if anyone ever needs something interesting in the beer/wine/sake department), I headed home. I walked over to Central Ave thinking I'd just hop it for 2 stops. Here is where my problems start:

First, I have no Charlie Card as I don't generally take the T. Previously I had a monthly through work, but there is no way to purchase a card at the stations. Admittedly they usually open the rear doors and you can kind of just... hop on, but I feel bad doing that. I also only had a five-dollar bill which I would have paid with but that's pretty lame as there is generally no change. I'd say first strike: as a rider just let me give you my money.

Second: I get there and the ticker just says trolleys every 15-20+ minutes. What? This is during the week just outside of rush hour for reference. So I think.. can't be that bad. So I waited but also decided to open the tracker I used to use which is just a website on Harvard's edu domain. Only a single Trolley on the line and it's at Ashmont. Great. Then, a guy waltzes up to the station with the Bluetooth stereo full blast. Admittedly I am a fan of the genre, but this was.... maybe his personal sound cloud at best. Props, I guess for captive marketing, but, with no sign on the tracker of a trolley, I said to myself: I can use the exercise and it's 80 degrees, time to just hoof it home.

So, I just hopped on the lovely Neponset River path there and started walking. When I passed by Butler I notice there were no trolleys that passed me, so I think: great, I made the right call. Then I check the tracker and... not a single one on the tracks yet. I get to my door and still nothing out of Mattapan. To me, this is just utterly incompetent. Uber/Lyft was cheap and fast. Walking was ~15+ minutes and free. The trolley could have done it for a one-way fare on the cheap and cut the walking travel time considerably. Unfortunately, it would have been well over half an hour if I waited: plus I didn't have a decent way to pay for it to add insult to injury. I also mentioned business mainly as there is a decent amount of nice little shops over there that would be great to be easily accessible by public transit. Same with Dot Ave and even Adams Village/Corner.

Story two was today: I headed into the office on a rare occasion. Coming home I thought maybe I'll take the T. Note the office is in the Back Bay, so it would be Green -> Red -> Highspeed, which is never great. But, Google Maps estimated 1 hour and 20 minutes. Driving was 30. I didn't drive in, but Uber/Lyft was 35 minutes and $25. I can tell you to have the hour on the commute I hopped in the rideshare - it's mind-blowing that I was once able to go door to door to South Station in ~30 minutes.

Sorry for the rant, but I noticed other members on the various other transit threads complaining about transit times and figured I would contribute my recent experience across lines. Especially the GLX thread where having the tickers at the entrance would help and I can say, yeah: with the open platforms on the HSL they do help, cause walking is a hell of a lot faster. Would have beaten it to Ashmont. /rant
 
bakgwailo said:
Second: I get there and the ticker just says trolleys every 15-20+ minutes. What? This is during the week just outside of rush hour for reference. So I think.. can't be that bad. So I waited but also decided to open the tracker I used to use which is just a website on Harvard's edu domain. Only a single Trolley on the line and it's at Ashmont. Great. Then, a guy waltzes up to the station with the Bluetooth stereo full blast. Admittedly I am a fan of the genre, but this was.... maybe his personal sound cloud at best. Props, I guess for captive marketing, but, with no sign on the tracker of a trolley, I said to myself: I can use the exercise and it's 80 degrees, time to just hoof it home.

So, I just hopped on the lovely Neponset River path there and started walking. When I passed by Butler I notice there were no trolleys that passed me, so I think: great, I made the right call. Then I check the tracker and... not a single one on the tracks yet. I get to my door and still nothing out of Mattapan. To me, this is just utterly incompetent.
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This is a really bad look - sure there is a train operator/dispatcher shortage but to provide essentially no service on the line through the lowest-income area is inexcusable. I seriously cannot blame anyone for driving/taking lyft and contributing to the congestion with the current state of affairs. I've discontinued my own T pass and use Blue Bike instead. The T will likely never earn the trust of a decent chunk of the population again.
 
It’s getting to the point where the T would be better off going full send on the tracks like they did before the interim GM knew of all the defects. 68 total derailments 2009-2019 aren’t bad odds and at least people could get places efficiently more frequently. The safety problem was more with defective and malfunctioning rolling stock and operator/maintenance worker error which track maintenance won’t solve.

I say this only half jokingly.
 
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Blue Line to shut down for trackwork to eliminate some of the slow zones.

The MBTA Blue Line has experienced several shutdowns between different stations for track and infrastructure work since 20191234. Some of these shutdowns were extended due to safety or technical issues24. The MBTA also faced a power outage that disrupted service in 20195. The most recent shutdown is between Wonderland and Orient Heights stations from May 22 to June 8, 2022, for repairing a pedestrian bridge at Suffolk Downs4. Shuttle buses are offered as replacement service during the shutdowns1234. o_O
 
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www.bostonglobe.com

Federal officials warn about MBTA safety for workers, saying there is ‘substantial risk’ of a death or injury - The Boston Globe

The Federal Transit Administration warned there is a “substantial risk” of a death or injury on the agency’s tracks as dangerous close calls mount.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com

The FTA imposed a series of deadlines by which the T must comply with new requirements or else face a freeze on track work.

Around 25 percent of the MBTA’s subway tracks have defects requiring speed restrictions, according to the slow zone dashboard, up from around 8 percent on March 1, dramatically slowing commutes. But the perilous conditions for workers on the T’s subway tracks and the newly required FTA overhauls could make much needed repair work more difficult.

The first begins Thursday, when the FTA will prohibit the T from working on its tracks unless the agency submits daily updates about the work it plans to do, including “hazard assessments,” and then meets certain benchmarks through mid-June, the FTA said. DeLorenzo said the FTA will do unannounced inspections.

Then, starting on April 24, the T will be prohibited from doing track work unless the agency provides the FTA with an analysis of how many work crews can safely operate on each line, and reviews paperwork and communication processes, the federal agency said. The T must alsoget FTA’s approval for “work crew limits per line” that will remain in place until the transit agency “shows sufficient improvements in [right of way] access safety have been made.”
 
Highwayguy said:
www.bostonglobe.com

Federal officials warn about MBTA safety for workers, saying there is ‘substantial risk’ of a death or injury - The Boston Globe

The Federal Transit Administration warned there is a “substantial risk” of a death or injury on the agency’s tracks as dangerous close calls mount.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com

The FTA imposed a series of deadlines by which the T must comply with new requirements or else face a freeze on track work.

Around 25 percent of the MBTA’s subway tracks have defects requiring speed restrictions, according to the slow zone dashboard, up from around 8 percent on March 1, dramatically slowing commutes. But the perilous conditions for workers on the T’s subway tracks and the newly required FTA overhauls could make much needed repair work more difficult.

The first begins Thursday, when the FTA will prohibit the T from working on its tracks unless the agency submits daily updates about the work it plans to do, including “hazard assessments,” and then meets certain benchmarks through mid-June, the FTA said. DeLorenzo said the FTA will do unannounced inspections.

Then, starting on April 24, the T will be prohibited from doing track work unless the agency provides the FTA with an analysis of how many work crews can safely operate on each line, and reviews paperwork and communication processes, the federal agency said. The T must alsoget FTA’s approval for “work crew limits per line” that will remain in place until the transit agency “shows sufficient improvements in [right of way] access safety have been made.”
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Again, zero of these insane requirements would ever applied to the mode of transportation that actually poses a risk to workers and civilians: Our blood drenched highways.
 
king_vibe said:
Again, zero of these insane requirements would ever applied to the mode of transportation that actually poses a risk to workers and civilians: Our blood drenched highways.
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All of this is extremely frustrating, but what are you trying to advocate in your quips? Do you seriously view the solution to this situation is let just lower the safety standards? Do you also advocate the FRA to lower Amtrak standards? Or the FAA lower their safety standards to planes?

This fucking sucks, but our anger should be how it was allowed to get this bad in the first place, not start calling the requirements as just "insane". I don't like onerous regulations, but citing cars isn't evidence the MBTA's regulation is onerous. Else if it is, then so is planes or other highly regulated modes. And I cannot agree with that.
 
ant8904 said:
Do you seriously view the solution to this situation is let just lower the safety standards?
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Yes! Intrusive safety requirements are reserved for modes of transportation that poor people could feasibly use because rich people do not allow themselves to be overregulated.
ant8904 said:
Or the FAA lower their safety standards to planes?
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There have been a half dozen near Tenerife-style disasters in American airports in the past few months, and I haven't seen the FAA shut down a single runway or control tower. There have been two near mass-casualty incidents at Logan in the past 60 days and the flights are still moving. The rich would never stand for anything else.
 
When the federal government requires 45mph speed inhibitors on all motor vehicles, limits curb weight to 3000lbs, requires a breathalyzer to unlock the ignition, and remotely disables cell phones within moving vehicles, then I'll believe that they actually give a shit about transportation safety.
 
ant8904 said:
Do you also advocate the FRA to lower Amtrak standards?
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At least match the European standards... for heavy and light rail. Europe seems to do okay, right?
I'm thinking EU weight standards are something we can adopt. Lighter trains stop faster and don't hit as hard. It's also cheaper to get more 'domestic' bidders who can take non-customized European parts and assemble them in the US. Instead we constantly spec unicorn builds. It's like our regulations are written to prevent common sense transit options. <adjusts tin foil hat>
 
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