General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

See, you can beat NIMBYs. You just have to wait for them to die.

The stated reason was traffic. Arlington didn't want the Red Line to end in the town, meaning that more people would be driving through. If the RL was extended to Lexington and Rt 128, less traffic. Also, the station in Arlington Center was to feature a huge park-and-ride, so that also pissed people off.

Once again, racism is just a lazy excuse.
 
stick n move said:
Better late than never… I guess.

Arlington no longer officially opposes extending the Red Line

By adamg on Thu, 04/27/2023 - 10:13am

“A bit late, but Paul Schlichtman reports that Arlington Town Meeting voted 169-41-1 last night to:

You may recall that when the state began talking about extending the Red Line north of Harvard Square, it originally wanted to go all the way to Lexington, only it couldn't, because the good burghers of Arlington fought that, and certainly not because they didn't want to make it easier for Black people to come into town.”

https://www.universalhub.com/2023/arlington-no-longer-officially-opposes-extending
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The Onion is also covering this story:
"After Shooting Self in Foot, Boston Suburb No Longer Opposes Government-Sponsored Foot Reconstruction Surgery"
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
See, you can beat NIMBYs. You just have to wait for them to die.

The stated reason was traffic. Arlington didn't want the Red Line to end in the town, meaning that more people would be driving through. If the RL was extended to Lexington and Rt 128, less traffic. Also, the station in Arlington Center was to feature a huge park-and-ride, so that also pissed people off.

Once again, racism is just a lazy excuse.
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They also didn't want Black people to come out there. That is so damn racist!!!! Just like South Boston was years ago. That also spells hatred to me!! Regardless of where people may go, racist & hatred for any kind of race or color is very wrong!! :eek:
 
bigpicture7 said:
The Onion is also covering this story:
"After Shooting Self in Foot, Boston Suburb No Longer Opposes Government-Sponsored Foot Reconstruction Surgery"
Click to expand...

The repeal feels also strangely insulting(?), irritating(?) when one remember the Minuteman. Like it or not, that itself is now a poison pill. Free to say they don’t oppose it now, but just as strong new barriers to block it if a new window ever appears
 
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ant8904 said:
The repeal feels also strangely insulting(?), irritating(?) when one remember the Minuteman. Like it or not, that itself is now a poison pill. Free to say they don’t oppose it now, but just as strong new barriers to block it if a new window ever appears
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Extension to Arlington Heights wouldn't disrupt the Minuteman. From Thorndike Field to the High School it would run in a cut-and-cover tunnel where everything gets stitched back together better than before after the construction phase is done. Past the High School where it would run on the surface for about 1-1/4 miles the tree buffer is anywhere from 75-125 ft. wide and abuts multiple city parks. Plenty wide for rail-with-trail and a trail that's lushly landscaped.

Lexington I agree can't happen without more or less destroying the essence of the Minuteman, but AH really isn't that hard. It's just assumed that the stations would be shorn of all the pornographic amounts of parking the 1970's plans had in favor of a Davis clone @ Arlington Center and a space-free/few, bus-hubbed terminal @ Park Ave.
 
Given current issues with the T, any tunnel needs to have pocket/third tracks for operational flexibility.
 
RandomWalk said:
Given current issues with the T, any tunnel needs to have pocket/third tracks for operational flexibility.
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Besides, the T probably isn't ready to spend that kind of money. I'd say that they got too many "irons" in the fire already. They got their hands full with all the stuff that they have to deal with. They should not have let things get too far behind. They are still doing things that should've been done eons ago!! :eek:
 
Now the question is if there will be funding available to build the RL extension in the foreseeable future. Probably not, as there are now multiple projects that are more valuable and/or cheaper (BLX on both ends, CR electrification, NSRL, Needham Line conversion, etc).
 
Teban54 said:
Now the question is if there will be funding available to build the RL extension in the foreseeable future. Probably not, as there are now multiple projects that are more valuable and/or cheaper (BLX on both ends, CR electrification, NSRL, Needham Line conversion, etc).
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They'd have to make sure that EVERYONE has the right to go there, not just certain people. They don't have or shouldn't have the right to keep Black people from going there. This is a free country!!! :mad:
 
Jahvon09 said:
Besides, the T probably isn't ready to spend that kind of money.
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Although I couldn't find the actual cost for the Harvard Sq.-Alewife extension, happily I was able to find the projected cost for the entire envisioned project (i.e., if it had run to Arlington Heights), in August 1977 dollars, via that month's EIS for the initiative, available here.

So, the projection in 1977 was $625M... that's $3.08B in today's money. For 6.5 miles total. That equates to $474M per mile of track.*

In comparison, the Green Line extension to Somerville, of 4.3 miles, was achieved at $2.28B, or $530M per mile of track.

*But what if there had been cost overruns? It's inconceivable there wouldn't have been. As it turns out, a "mere" 11.8% cost overrun on the projected cost per that August 1977 EIS, would've brought it right into the territory of what the Green Line extension ending up costing, going by inflation-adjusted dollars, 45 years later.

(I know, technically speaking and despite my valiant efforts here, this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, for a myriad plethora of reasons, I'm sure... still, I think it's interesting to contemplate. I also realize that nearly all of the cost overruns for the GLX project could've been due to litigation, dysfunction, incompetence, and corruption, whereas all of the cost overruns on the Red Line extension--both achieved to Alewife, and envisioned, to Arlington Heights--may've been due overwhelmingly (or presumably, for the Alewife-to-Arlington Heights segment) to hellacious unforeseen engineering challenges.)
 
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Sadly, with capital project funding so dependent upon federal funds, there is no way to build up a sustainable pipeline of expansion projects in any US transit system. With the healthy pipeline, there can be a proper capital project management organization to keep things moving forward without falling into same quicksand every single time. Instead, federal largesse gets parceled out to cover political bets.
 
There was & still is talk about extending the Blue Line to Lynn & the Orange Line at either end. The Red Line already was given an extension to Alewife in the early '80's, the GLX was completed & opened. Only the OL & the BL have not had one. Just saying. :(
 
Brattle Loop said:
Since when? OL was re-routed (though with the same southern endpoint) in '87, the northern endpoint changed (and was extended) in the 70s. Blue's route has been static since the 50s, quite different from Orange.
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The rerouting of the OL on the southern side was a side grade at best - in reality I'd say a downgrade as it meant Nubian Square, Egleston, etc lost their direct transit stops. I certainly wouldn't say it was an expansion. Could have been, I guess, if the Green Line replacement plan came to fruition.

Here's hoping the Blue/Red connector at least happens at some point as BLX doesn't seem likely. OLX to Rozzie seems a much easier project, too.
 
Something worth noting: one month ago on 3/28, the slow zones on the MBTA hit an all time high of 28% of rapid transit track. As of today, 5% of that has been eliminated for 23% of track under slow zones. It'll be interesting to see with the huge increase in work this month (especially on the Red Line) how long it will take to get that number down another 5%. Most of the progress over the last month has been on the Blue Line, but today there were decreases in Red, Orange, and Blue so hopefully that will be a trend that continues. Obviously still a long way to go and any non-zero number of long-term slow zones is unacceptable, but progress is being made.
 
stefal said:
Nice to see it takes work being done on our car infrastructure to make changes to our public transit fare structure...
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Yep ("sigh"), I don't think these temporary Summer 2023 fare changes will be permanent on the North Shore, the fare changes are mostly just another band-aid North American "public transit to fix traffic", instead of how the Dutch and Europeans use public transit to build wealth/walkable places (how it functions in practice, at least).
 
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bakgwailo said:
The rerouting of the OL on the southern side was a side grade at best - in reality I'd say a downgrade as it meant Nubian Square, Egleston, etc lost their direct transit stops. I certainly wouldn't say it was an expansion. Could have been, I guess, if the Green Line replacement plan came to fruition.

Here's hoping the Blue/Red connector at least happens at some point as BLX doesn't seem likely. OLX to Rozzie seems a much easier project, too.
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I wouldn't be so pessimistic about BLX to Lynn. Once Red-Blue and probably Needham Line conversion are done, I'd say Lynn is the obvious next choice for a rapid transit project. It will take time for sure, but it's still more likely to happen "at some point" than many other ideas.
 
Teban54 said:
I wouldn't be so pessimistic about BLX to Lynn. Once Red-Blue and probably Needham Line conversion are done, I'd say Lynn is the obvious next choice for a rapid transit project. It will take time for sure, but it's still more likely to happen "at some point" than many other ideas.
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BLX might end up more difficult than it should be due to the environmental review process and it’s need to cross marshlands and be made resistant to climate change.
 
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