Gigantic plans for Westbrook

http://news.mainetoday.com/updates/031746.html

According to the press herald, there is a meeting on this subject at the high school tonight. I can't imagine that there is much support for this. I am amazed it got this far.

As I said earlier, even though this may not be the best type of development as far as land use and sustainbility, it troubles me that Portland isn't targeted for new and exciting devleopments like this, as it has a population base and infrastrutre already in place and needs more year-round attractions.
 
Stroudwater Place Moves Forward
Matt Lunt, Producer


After hearing public comment Tuesday night, the construction of Stroudwater Place in one step closer to becoming a reality. The new development is a mall that will bring shops, offices, hotels and restaurants to the Stroudwater section of the city.

The Westbrook planning board unanimously recommended that the city council support zoning changes that would allow the mall to be built. The new development will take up 60 acres in Westbrook between the Maine Turnpike and Stroudwater Street. Developer Jason Snyder is planning a sprawling 300-million-dollar development that would be the largest and most expensive project of its kind, ever proposed in Maine.

However, the proposed development is far from a done deal. The Westbrook City Council will have to vote on the zoning changes, then if that is passed, developers will have to go back to the planning board to detail the specifics of the project. Then the plan will go back to the City Council for final approval.

http://wgme.com/News/story_detail/story_detail_3.shtml?readmore
 
http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=226470&ac=PHnws

Council OKs Stroudwater project

The zoning change allows the developer to include retail space in the project, to be built over 10 years.



By DENNIS HOEY, Staff Writer December 9, 2008

Stroudwater Place, which could surpass the Maine Mall as the state's largest retail operation, will be built in phases, taking a total of about 10 years to complete.

Snyder said it will be another year before he will be ready to go before Westbrook's Planning Board for site-plan approval.

He now must work on getting permits from the Maine Department of Environmental Protection and from the Maine Department of Transportation to build a 1.6- million-square-foot development on a 61-acre parcel of land off Stroudwater Street.

Snyder said Stroudwater Place will create more than 5,000 jobs and will feature retail shops, office space, a recreational facility and restaurants.
He said he is confident that the project will succeed despite the down economy.

Pretty amazing that it's still moving forward. I'm not a fan of this development at all but it will be neat watch it progress. And as I said before, why can't projects like this happen in Portland? (I know this project is on the Westbrook/Portland line but I mean on the peninsula).
 
This project should be unflattened and squeezed into a some of the empty or underutilized Bayside parcels. Buildings could be connected with enclosed pedestrian bridges to attract shoppers during the ugliest weather. The office element could be compressed into one or more towers. Instead of pretending this isn't a mall, it should follow the models of urban malls that have contributed to, or at least not bruised, a city's urban fabric:

Boston's Prudential and Copley Malls: Built over an old rail yard, highway and highway ramp. With several hotels and office buildings, a convention center, two malls and a whole bunch of housing connected, you have a mini city within a city that is protected from nasty weather.

Providence Place: A giant urban mall that serves as a buffer between highway and city and has a decent stretch of retail at street level.

Southern Maine can only support so much retail and I imagine that the new development is intended to take life from the Maine Mall, which took its life from Portland. This development should be centrally focused, and if it plans to kill the Maine Mall, it should do so by bringing vitality back to the urban center that suffered from that mall's competition.

This could be done thoughtfully. New formula retail in Portland could be contained within this project, bringing consumer options to the Peninsula that are missing and now only found at the mall, while protecting Old Port and the Arts District.
 
I'm not surprised at all that this is progressing in the manner it is. Westbrook is anxious to attract a developer to this parcel (for tax/income reasons) and will expedite permitting and basic preparations to push this forward. Given the positive attitude from the town towards this project, it is FAR from hitting the hard part. This is still a pipe dream and will struggle when it comes to getting down to the real business.

This will fail when A) the company can't secure financing from either investors or banks (or both), and B) No (or very few) tenants show interest. It will remain as "proposed" for years, but given the market for office space and retail in Portland (which is TERRIBLE right now... look at the vacancies in far better locations) it will eventually fail. I doubt this will progress passed the planning phases as I don't think they will sign an anchor tenant and a few minor ones. As for the retail, don't expect even a Nordstrom without a MAJOR bargain deal (Providence Place had to give them a 10 year lease for next to nothing in order for them to locate there) and even then I doubt it. Forget about anything pricier than Nordstom too (Saks Fifth, Neiman Marcus) These upscale department stores are selective... Providence had trouble luring even Nordstrom in, and the first one in Metro Boston recently opened up. Both of those markets are more affluent and much larger than the Portland area. I really think this is a distant dream and is unattainable.

The fact that this will, "be built over ten years" doesn't sit well either. If they even start construction of this, further phases of this project will be at the mercy of earlier phases. If early retail or office space doesn't fill up as quickly as hoped for (which I doubt it will), the developer will have little incentive to expand and new tenants will have little incentive to move in.

I also agree with Bostonian. This is bad for the area (excluding Westbrook). If by some miracle, companies and businesses do show interest and it does get built, it's bad for Downtown (and the Maine Mall). You're talking about nearly DOUBLING the amount of retail space that's currently located in and around the Maine Mall. That place still has plenty of vacancy (especially when you include the external stores immediately adjacent to the mall). Stroudwater would be completely flooding the market.

It would also be bad for downtown business. Portland is one of the few success stories of a small city in New England (or anywhere for that matter) recovering in the downtown area after suburban retail took a lot of business just outside the city. It took decades for downtown to recover, can we bank on the fact that it'll recover again? Do you really want it to HAVE to recover?

I really wanted the Portland Public Market to take in some of this stuff. It has an adjacent garage with covered walkway connecting the two, easy access to the highway, and it's right next to Congress St. There are also parcels near the Old Port and like Bostonian Mentioned-- Bayside that would be good for this type of project. I also think that high end retail-- on MUCH smaller scale than 1 Million sq. ft. (the proposed amount of space dedicated to retail at Stroudwater) would be good for Portland IN town.

Everything about this project bothers me. I just don't think it'll get off the ground. What keeps showing up in the news (i.e. "City Council gives Stroudwater the O.K.") is to be expected given how badly Westbrook wants the revenue from all of this. People in Wesbrook act like this is the town's saving grace. I would be flabbergasted (first time I've used that word ever) if they get the financing in this credit pinch and if they find some anchor tenants-- ESPECIALLY-- high end retail ones. I doubt it'll happen, but we'll see.
 
Developer proposes arena near turnpike
Jason Snyder would build an 8,000-seat facility in conjunction with his $300 million commercial project.

By Melanie Creamer mcreamer@mainetoday.com
Staff Writer

WESTBROOK ? A developer has proposed building an 8,000-seat sports and entertainment arena on one of two sites he owns near the Maine Turnpike in Portland and Westbrook.
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Jason Snyder
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Jason Snyder wants to build the arena in conjunction with his proposed Stroudwater Place, a $300 million, 1.6 million-square-foot retail and commercial development in Westbrook.

He has also proposed to convert the Cumberland County Civic Center in Portland into a convention center, and asked the Portland Pirates to be the flagship tenant of the new arena.

Snyder's proposal calls for a 150,000-square-foot arena on a 63-acre site in Portland or on a 60-acre site in Westbrook between exits 46 and 47 of the turnpike. Snyder said the arena would attract high-level entertainers and host other teams such as the Maine Red Claws.

He said the venue could draw the popular bands that don't come to Maine now.

"The civic center has served a very viable and important purpose, but the reality is that the state of Maine has been losing a lot of business because they don't have a facility that would draw larger acts," Snyder said. "With the right venue, they will come."

The estimated costs to build the arena are $68.7 million in Portland and $63.1 million in Westbrook. Snyder said the project would be paid for through bond financing, bank financing and private investment. He said he plans to meet with county officials next week to discuss financing options.

Snyder has pitched his proposal to officials in Portland and Westbrook; the Cumberland County commissioners; Brian Petrovek, the Pirates' CEO and managing owner; and Mark Maroon, vice chairman of the civic center's board of trustees.

It's an interesting idea, said Greg Mitchell, Portland's economic development director.

"We need to know more specifics," Mitchell said. "I need to know that we have a real project behind his outline. It's important to the city to retain the economic activities associated with the civic center in Portland."

The Portland Pirates' owners are looking for a permanent home for the American Hockey League team. In March, Petrovek and the civic center's trustees agreed on a two-year lease.

At the same time, they agreed to work together to renovate the 33-year-old arena. Petrovek met with Snyder around the time he considered moving the team to the Times Union Center in Albany, N.Y.

Petrovek said he's intrigued by Snyder's proposal, but is also considering a proposal by a group in Saco that wants to build a hockey arena there.

"We need to look at all the options," Petrovek said. "Our number one focus is in renovating the civic center. We desperately need something if we want to have a sustainable business. We can't live on a lease."

Snyder commissioned his own study to retrofit and renovate the civic center. He said it would cost about $30 million to convert it to a convention center.

He said more than 400,000 people visited the civic center last year, of which 30 percent were Pirates' fans.

Snyder said a convention center would draw more people who would stay in Portland for two to four days, as opposed to two to three hours for a concert. He said the change would give an economic boost to nearby restaurants and other businesses.

"This is about economic development for the region," Snyder said. "The benefit to businesses in the Old Port and to the city of Portland will be many-fold."

Snyder's proposed sports arena would be built near the mixed-use development he has proposed. Plans for Stroudwater Place include an ice-skating rink, a farmers market and public space.

Snyder owns the 60 acres he wants to build on, between the Westbrook Arterial and Stroudwater Street in Westbrook, just off exit 47 of the turnpike. Snyder's business partner, Arthur Emil, is a prominent lawyer and developer from New York.

Snyder said the project was put on hold during the economic downturn.

"We said it would be a 10-year build-out," Snyder said. "We would have liked to have a shovel in the ground by now, but that's not the reality of the world we are in. It will continue to move forward. It will be built."

Stroudwater Place was approved by the Westbrook City Council in December 2008. Jerre Bryant, the city administrator, said Snyder will need a site plan review before starting the project.

"This is an exciting jump-start to a project that has been waiting out a tough economic period," Bryant said. "(A sports arena) would be a great anchor to Stroudwater Place."

Some residents say the development would change the rural character of the area. Lou Randall, a co-owner of the farm across Stroudwater Street from the site for Stroudwater Place, opposes the project.

Randall, who owns 45 acres next to Snyder's property, said Snyder has offered to buy his land.

"I won't sell to him," he said. "They don't have enough land to do what they want to do. Where is he going to park the people? Where is he going to put the snow?"

StroudwaterArena201006WEB.jpg

basically this guy is proposing to build a new maine mall, in westbrook of all places, with an arena that is slightly bigger than the current facility, but surrounded by huge surface parking lots. the primary purpose of arenas is to attract people to the area to spend money on local attractions, but the only thing nearby this new arena would be the yet to be built new mall, which will likely be closed at the time of shows. I don't think this makes sense, although I agree with your comments dominic that if portland keeps frigging this thing up it can't complain when the arena walks.
 
So this guy wants a to turn the civic center into a convention center, but is moving the location? I agree with making a convention center, I just think it should be located in downtown Portland, not where this guy is proposing.
 
Todd, this guy wants to build a new civic center in westbrook. That means the Portland civic center that currently exists would be defunct, so he proposes turning instead into a convention center. The location is all wrong I agree.
 
There is plenty of room to build in Portland, closer to downtown. A convention center close to downtown would certainly help businesses and bring revenue. Besides, Portland is the service center, it seems logical to have something like this in the region's bigger city.
 
Todd -- good points, but a couple of things I want to point out.

(1) although you are right, and there is in fact ample room to build in closer to or even within Portland, that land is not owned by Jason Snyder, the developer. The owners of that land may not want to build an arena or may lack the funding to do it. Not to mention, the City would likely be opposed to building a new arena when there are efforts under way to restore and renovate the existing civic center.

(2) Westbrook is, for all intents and purposes, within the same service center geographic scope as portland. Portland is one of the most sprawling cities in America (by proportion anyway) and many of the services traditionally associated with it have shifted outward. Downtown is mostly for lawyers, bankers, tourists and the homeless. I wish it was more diversified, but that's how it is.

(3) also, just to clarify, the proposal as it is mentioned in the paper is to keep the civic center IN portland, but change its USE to a convention center. the new ARENA proposed for westbrook would allow the current structure to be transformed into a convention center. I think a convention center would be far better than an arena, any day. the people who attend conventions there always populate the entire city, not just the old port. you can see them wandering around all day with their name tags on.
 
Portland could benefit from a convention center....I understand that the services for the Portland area have been shifting outward....I think it would make sense not to keep that shift going...
 
Well, in that case, then, I completely agree with you. I just wasn't sure if you knew exactly how close Westbrook actually is to Portland. Many people consider them the same place once you are off the peninsula. True, there are distinctions, as with everywhere, but they are minor unless you are talking about the inhabitants.

I think Portland, Gorham, Westbrook, Scarborough and south portland should all merge. This would enable planning efforts to be more well aligned on a regional basis. of course, if ever you mention this, though, people nod their heads and then forget about the idea.
 
I think that would be a great idea fircthose cities to merge....although I'm sure most people, as you have said, don't take that seriously. Economically, I would think that would make things more affordable.
How would you even go about trying to put an idea like that into action? I would imagine that would be a tough sell....to all parties involved
 
I don't know the specific details about how this would be accomplished or could be accomplished, but I know it's not unheard of. In Boston, Brighton, Charlestown, Dorchester, Roxbury, etc., all of those used to be separate towns until Boston annexed them. This is essentially what I am proposing for Portland and its surroundings. I can't seem to locate the source, but at one time I read online that about the beginning of last century there was a legislative proposal for Portland and South Portland to merge, but it was defeated and never discussed again. These days, there is a lot of talk and action toward consolidation of essential utilities, which is sort of like merging, but not quite. The town of Deering was incorporated into the city of portland some time ago, and not it makes up most of the city.
 
and in the south and west, in places like atlanta, albequerque (I'm not even going to try to spell that correctly) and anchorage, you have cities that are continuing to grow each year by swallowing their neighbors. There is a book entitled cities without suburbs that you might like to take a look at. It refers to cities in the northeast as "inelastic" and southern cities as "elastic" in this regard. It makes the argument that the southern cities are more efficiently run as regions.
 
This would also get a handle on sprawl in the Portland region....this is something Portland officials should seriously consider....
 
On the subject of annexation, according to the city council, Maine prohibits involuntary annexation, so this is something that all municipalities would have to agree on. The most logical place for the subject of annexation to be seriously considered would be the greater Portland council of regional governments. In the name of economics, finance, and development, this should be discussed and seriously considered!!
 
Todd -- I COMPLETELY AGREE

However, stuff like this takes someone to get things going. some momentum is required. And it has to be politically popular. Right now, I don't think any politician would risk their career by proposing something like this because of the fear of backlash (remember, in new england we have very old and established towns, with a strong sense of pride. for example, Scarborough just came out with a book called "Scarborough at 350" (years old)). Some sort of catalyst would be needed to overcome this hurdle.
 
We'll see how this plays out. I still think the location is a poor choice but I can see why he would propose it there since he has the land available. I would be interested in hearing the man's opinion of public transit. He would score some well deserved points with me if he was proposing more than a big automobile parking lot. Even just mentioning the word 'bus' in this proposal would help a little.

It would be interesting if Portland was to get a new arena outside of downtown, while countless cities across the country have done the opposite and taken their arenas from the outskirts and into the central business district to revive their downtowns.
 

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