Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

I haven’t been Downtown in a few weeks. How’s the Government Center Garage demo looking? Is it gone? Are we out of the woods?
 
bigeman312 said:
I haven’t been Downtown in a few weeks. How’s the Government Center Garage demo looking? Is it gone? Are we out of the woods?
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I don't think it's done yet. They have to get halfway across Congress st heading southwards to be clear off the Green line tunnel. So everything from Congress st's median northwards needs clearing.
 
Fairly certain the published timeline is by end of the year, so I would expect a few more closures from now until then.
 
bakgwailo said:
Fairly certain the published timeline is by end of the year, so I would expect a few more closures from now until then.
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According to this, "HYM now says demolition of the garage should be 'substantially complete' by early next year." So yeah, a little ways to go.

www.bostonglobe.com

At massive downtown Boston garage, demolition drags on and on - The Boston Globe

A fatal accident and negotiations with the MBTA have pushed deconstruction of the Government Center Garage — and the closure of Congress Street — well past the original completion date.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
 
Little off topic but how much capacity does the Green line Central Tunnel have? If we theoretically had unlimited trains and yard space how many lines could we run throught the tunnel without reducing the frequency on the branches? Or is it already at capacity?
 
cats10000 said:
Little off topic but how much capacity does the Green line Central Tunnel have? If we theoretically had unlimited trains and yard space how many lines could we run throught the tunnel without reducing the frequency on the branches? Or is it already at capacity?
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There's a lot of discussion of this in the Green Line Reconfiguration thread. (Like, a lot a lot.) If you want a more in-depth discussion, I'd suggest asking there. But in general:

First, there's a lot of levers we can use to tweak things. The biggest question is whether you reactivate the outer tracks at Boylston, which, in combination with the loops at Park St and Gov't Center, can provide increased capacity along that stretch.

Then there are some questions about rolling stock and dwell times. The Type 10s are designed to be longer and higher capacity than the current rolling stock, so that impacts "capacity" depending on how you measure it. Likewise, something like the Blue-Red Connector will reduce the number of passengers needing to hop on for a quick jaunt between Park and GC, which will make it easier for trains to get in and get out of the station quickly. (Something like the "Urban Ring" would achieve something similar.)

But, in general, in my personal opinion, as a non-expert non-professional who has spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about this as an amateur:

I'd guess that the stretch between Kenmore and Boylston could handle roughly 40 trains per hour, give or take maybe 5 tph (assuming that Copley Junction can be eliminated, eg. by sending Huntington trains into the Pleasant Street Portal). The outer tracks at Boylston probably add something like 7-12 tph between there and Park St.

North of Government Center, I think capacity is similar to the Boylston Street Subway -- 40 tph +/- 5. Using the Brattle Loop would allow southbound trains to turn around there instead of proceeding to Park Street.

To me, the biggest capacity pinch is between Park Street and Government Center: I think there we're talking about 30 tph, maybe 35 tph, along there. So, using the Park St and Brattle Loops will almost always be a key piece so that that capacity pinch doesn't rule systemwide.

But yeah -- in general, roughly 40 tph in my opinion, assuming some services short-turn at Park Street.

Maybe you could optimize that up to 50 tph... but keep in mind that at that point you're talking about a train passing through every 72 seconds. At these numbers, seconds make a big difference -- 50 tph = every 72 seconds, while 40 tph = every 90 seconds. So, the difference between 40 and 50 tph is equivalent to one hapless traveler struggling with their luggage on the way to Logan.

In terms of branches -- historically the Green Line was scheduled for 10 tph per branch. Over the last couple of years, that has shifted probably closer to 7.5 tph. So, at that point it's just the math of 40 / 10 vs 40 / 7.5 -- 4 branches or 5 branches. And... in some ways, that's the bottom line.

Now, you can play around with a lot of pieces of the margins. For example, connecting D and E at Brookline Village <> Riverway could consolidate two branches into one. A new branch to Needham would probably not need to be as high-frequency as today's B or C branches, so could count as a "half branch". And building a subway to the Seaport would allow you to divert some trains away from Park Street altogether.

Again, this is all decidedly the opinion of a devoted amateur. To your question, "Is it already at capacity?" I think the simple answer is "no, it's not", but also that it's a bigger picture question than just the Central Subway itself.
 
ritchiew said:
According to this, "HYM now says demolition of the garage should be 'substantially complete' by early next year." So yeah, a little ways to go.

www.bostonglobe.com

At massive downtown Boston garage, demolition drags on and on - The Boston Globe

A fatal accident and negotiations with the MBTA have pushed deconstruction of the Government Center Garage — and the closure of Congress Street — well past the original completion date.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
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As with just about everything else, it takes a ridiculously long time to get something done in Boston!!!! :mad:
 
TallIsGood said:
Can you still connect E to D with the new Brookline Place?
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I don't think the footprint of the site has changed. Pretty sure the plan all along was continued street running along Washington St. to Pearl St., then turning inbound as the tracks approach the existing D-line ROW. That remains a feasible routing.
 
Vagabond said:
Was reading about a Medford city councilor candidate's learning about the GLX Phase 2 to Rte 16. Medford Residents don't appear to have a leading voice for this fight yet.
https://www.mattleming.com/blog/why-didnt-the-green-line-extension-go-further
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It's too bad that there isn't more of a push for the GLX Phase 2. Obviously, there are much more pressing issues with the MBTA right now, but it's very disappointing regardless. GLX Phase 2 should absolutely be finished before the end of this decade and yet even that seems like an unrealistic long shot. Hopefully, I'm wrong and just being overly pessimistic, but I doubt it.
 
So... is this when the term "bombshell revelation" gets thrown around? (Apologies for such the lengthy excerpt but there's just so much.)

The Green Line extension, which fully opened less than a year ago, is riddled with so many defects — even more than previously disclosed — workers will now have to essentially redo a key element of the 4.7-mile stretch, T general manager Phillip Eng announced Thursday.

The fundamental problem with the $2.3 billion project, which stretches to Medford on one branch and Union Square in Somerville on the other, is the track itself, Eng told the Globe in an interview. When the project opened, and ever since, it’s been too narrow, a grave error that he said was known within his agency, but neither fixed nor shared with him until last month.

“I did not know the extent of it until recently, after having a chance to review the project documents,” Eng said. “I wish I had known earlier. Yes. Because then I think we would have tackled this.”

The scope of the problem is vast, Eng acknowledged.

The ties, the wood supports that lay perpendicular to the rails, each have two metal plates installed on them that hold the rails in place and provide the correct gauge — or width — between the rails. But the T has found the plates on many ties are too close together, Eng said.

Now, Eng said, the T is working with the Green Line extension construction companies — which he says he will hold accountable — on a plan to re-gauge ties throughout the project, a process that involves unscrewing bolts from one of the tie’s rail plates, filling the holes with epoxy or wooden dowels, and then drilling new holes and securing the plates at the correct gauge.

“It’s the whole length of the project that I believe needs to be re-gauged to be back within the contract requirement,” he said. Eng emphasized, however, the Green Line extension is currently safe for riders.

T spokesperson Joe Pesaturo said 50 percent of the Union Square branch and 80 percent of the Medford branch track will have to be re-gauged.

...

The project opened last year with the defective tracks in place even though the MBTA knew as early as April 2021 that the plates made the track gauge too narrow and didn’t meet the agency’s own construction requirements, Eng said. He citied a April 2021 inspection report from Terracon, the firm hired by the project’s construction companies to do quality control.

...

Instead, construction carried on and the project opened last year with thousands of narrow gauge areas outside construction specifications, internal emails obtained by the Globe show.

Warnings persisted about narrow gauge after the Green Line extension started carrying passengers to Union Square in March 2022 and to Medford/Tufts in December 2022, geometry scans obtained by the Globe show. Such scans measure tracks for defects that must then be confirmed by hands-on measurements.
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As far as I can tell, there is no discussion in the article about how long the re-gauging work will take, or how long of a closure this might entail.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/10/19/metro/green-line-extension-update/
 
Wow, what a wild set of facts. Part of leadership is taking responsibility, and another part is firing idiots into the sun when they messed up before your time. There should be heads on pikes outside of every GLX station by sun up. Yeesh.
 
cubbe8 said:
But then shouldn’t the slow zones still exist?
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That seems like an @F-Line to Dudley question if there ever was one. But what I do know is that "safe" isn't a binary state -- there is always some risk, if nothing else at least from Acts of God/natural disasters. Some large fraction of managerial decisions are based on how long an organization is willing to endure a certain level of risk. So, for example, it could be that the narrow gauges do increase risk from a "normal level" (e.g. "risk of derailment is so low that it would take 100 years for one to happen randomly") to "something higher", but that "something higher" is still acceptable in the short term (e.g. "risk of derailment is so low that it would take 20 years for one to happen randomly").

That all being said, it does seem like a significant omission on the part of the Globe's interviewer to have (presumably) not asked that very obvious question. (This goes back to a problem I've had for a long time -- the Globe really does need to get some more industry-familiar reporters on this beat. Almost every article I've seen seems to lack very obvious follow-up questions.)
 
Ah-hah!!! Found it anyway. The GLX is reportedly STILL having some serious problems on the line!!! According to GM Phillip Eng, there are problems on the line that still need immediate & swift action to be corrected & he is holding the cos that helped build it accountable. Good job, Philip Eng!!! I deeply appreciate your attentiveness to this!!! :eek:

 
www.wgbh.org

MBTA's new Green Line Extension problems worse than reported, Eng reveals

Former Gov. Charlie Baker denied knowing about the problems with the Green Line Extension, which Eng says were first discovered in April 2021.
www.wgbh.org www.wgbh.org

Will this new set of repairs also cover the Lechmere Viaduct's 10 mph slowzone? 4 weeks of repairs on the Medford and Union Sq. branches, and previous repairs on the Lechmere viaduct, and the Lechmere viaduct is still one giant slowzone.
 
Delvin4519 said:
www.wgbh.org

MBTA's new Green Line Extension problems worse than reported, Eng reveals

Former Gov. Charlie Baker denied knowing about the problems with the Green Line Extension, which Eng says were first discovered in April 2021.
www.wgbh.org www.wgbh.org

Will this new set of repairs also cover the Lechmere Viaduct's 10 mph slowzone? 4 weeks of repairs on the Medford and Union Sq. branches, and previous repairs on the Lechmere viaduct, and the Lechmere viaduct is still one giant slowzone.
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I strictly blame the MBTA for this, mainly because they are so damn cheap & penny-pinching to the point where corners are being cut by the co's responsible for such construction programs! And they are not even watching the work as it progresses!! Then WHO pays for this crappy work? The commuters do, because now, slow zones go into effect until or when the work is done properly. I also suspect that when the work finally restarts, another LONG, LONG, LONG slow zone of 3MPH might go into effect until the thing is finally, at long last, done right!! :eek:
 
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