Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

Badusername said:
It’s because they run single track operations between Science Park and North Station during the diversions. The system (last time I checked) involves passing a flag between the train exiting North Station and the next one to enter which has to wait at Science Park. I don’t know what the track geometry is but I feel like there has to be a better way.
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I ran into this a few weeks ago, when I was going to North Station to take the Orange Line outbound. The train stopped at Science Park, with another one ahead of it, and the driver told us to get on the train ahead and that it was leaving in 7 minutes. I got off and walked to North Station. Don't know if I beat that train, but it was a nice walk and I hate waiting.
I've thought in the past that a solution for a West Medford GLX station would be to single-track it past Mystic Valley Parkway. Now that I've seen how that sort of operation works in reality, I suspect I'm completely wrong about that.
 
ceo said:
I ran into this a few weeks ago, when I was going to North Station to take the Orange Line outbound. The train stopped at Science Park, with another one ahead of it, and the driver told us to get on the train ahead and that it was leaving in 7 minutes. I got off and walked to North Station. Don't know if I beat that train, but it was a nice walk and I hate waiting.
I've thought in the past that a solution for a West Medford GLX station would be to single-track it past Mystic Valley Parkway. Now that I've seen how that sort of operation works in reality, I suspect I'm completely wrong about that.
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To be fair, I think this is probably the worst run single track ops in the country. Plus it’s two branches on one track. The headways would probably be manageable if it were just one branch.
 
The solution I see, but don’t know if it’s feasible, would be to:
  • Run a single train shuttle between North Station and Lechmere, along the outbound track.
  • Have GLX operations terminate at Lechmere, along the inbound track, utilizing the switch that’s just outbound of Lechmere.
  • Passengers would utilize a cross-platform transfer at Lechmere for continuing service.
Any idea if this is feasible?

Some quick back-of-napkin math tells me that the round trip North Station - Lechmere should take about 10 minutes, which is slightly more frequent than current operations. Service on each of the branches would be able to be much more frequent than current operations though, as there would be far less single-track operation.

Thoughts?

I still can not figure out how much longer this garage demo is going to take place. If we’re in for a long haul, this could be worth advocating for.
 
I assume there's something in the operating rules that prevents just coupling a Union Square car and a Medford car at Lechmere with passengers on board to make the most of the limited slots?
I realize it would be slightly confusing for passengers at North Station that each car in the train is going to a different destination and moving all the Type 9s to Brickbottom would take some labor.
 
I'm not sure whether would it have been better to cancel Union Sq., and instead run Medford branch to Route 16? vs. cancelling Route 16 and building a second branch to Union Square.

A single track terminal simply isn't working out for two branches.

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It's taking about 12.5 minutes to turn trains around at North Station, so they can get roughly 4.8 tph in North Station, and 2.4 tph on the 2 GLX branches.

Somehow in the evenings the headways get to over 30 minutes between trains on the GLX branches. Yikes.
 
Delvin4519 said:
I'm not sure whether would it have been better to cancel Union Sq., and instead run Medford branch to Route 16? vs. cancelling Route 16 and building a second branch to Union Square.

A single track terminal simply isn't working out for two branches.

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It's taking about 12.5 minutes to turn trains around at North Station, so they can get roughly 4.8 tph in North Station, and 2.4 tph on the 2 GLX branches.

Somehow in the evenings the headways get to over 30 minutes between trains on the GLX branches. Yikes.
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It's not the time to turn trains around at North Station that's the problem. It's the entire Science Park - North Station - Science Park leg that's entirely single track. The turnaround at North Station is itself is quite quick. I've boarded and alighted there multiple times during this diversion.
 
Delvin4519 said:
I'm not sure whether would it have been better to cancel Union Sq., and instead run Medford branch to Route 16? vs. cancelling Route 16 and building a second branch to Union Square.

A single track terminal simply isn't working out for two branches.
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Better for who? Certainly wouldn't have been better for Somerville's development goals.

The Gov Center garage work is an extraordinary circumstance, and it would have been bizarre to plan a permanent infrastructure build around a temporary circumstance, no matter how painful things are going to be over the next couple weeks.
 
I wonder if it would work better to have trains deadhead back to the North Station storage yard after dropping off, wait there as necessary, and then go back into NS on the outbound track to pick up passengers.
 
Texasian said:
no matter how painful things are going to be over the next couple weeks.
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I think part of the fear is this is going to be a thing until is actually 2027 rather than just a joke. I saw on Reddit that one guy claimed it was suppose to be done by last September. I have no idea how to go verify so I don't know if they really claimed that - but it is sadly plausible that it has kept dragging out. As even if the demolition can't drag out that long, who to say the construction won't make disruptions (remember, they did originally promised it would have 0 effect, but here we are).

We also have to remember again that we're also straining from the pain of other issues too. You can fault the MBTA for the demolition fiasco, but when you have going on while also having a ton of slow zones plus so many weekend shutdowns trying to repair them plus so many other issues, yeah it's kinda overwhelming.

Last weekend a pair of friends were going to stay at my place. But they opt-ed for a hotel for maximum easy reach of the airport because of the so many issues they need to navigate. I told them I know how to get around this but I can understand it's just extremely anxiety inducing trying to keep so many things in mind. It does makes me feel sad they had to feel that way. There shouldn't be this many things to track to navigate Boston.
 
ant8904 said:
I think part of the fear is this is going to be a thing until is actually 2027 rather than just a joke. I saw on Reddit that one guy claimed it was suppose to be done by last September. I have no idea how to go verify so I don't know if they really claimed that - but it is sadly plausible that it has kept dragging out. As even if the demolition can't drag out that long, who to say the construction won't make disruptions (remember, they did originally promised it would have 0 effect, but here we are).

We also have to remember again that we're also straining from the pain of other issues too. You can fault the MBTA for the demolition fiasco, but when you have going on while also having a ton of slow zones plus so many weekend shutdowns trying to repair them plus so many other issues, yeah it's kinda overwhelming.

Last weekend a pair of friends were going to stay at my place. But they opt-ed for a hotel for maximum easy reach of the airport because of the so many issues they need to navigate. I told them I know how to get around this but I can understand it's just extremely anxiety inducing trying to keep so many things in mind. It does makes me feel sad they had to feel that way. There shouldn't be this many things to track to navigate Boston.
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The street closure on Congress Street was only supposed to last until Labor Day September 2022, yet 9 months later half or more of the garage is still up. They've been at it for 2 years minus 4 months, so its looking like years and years of constant shutdowns.
 
Delvin4519 said:
The street closure on Congress Street was only supposed to last until Labor Day September 2022, yet 9 months later half or more of the garage is still up. They've been at it for 2 years minus 4 months, so its looking like years and years of constant shutdowns.
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Implode the damn thing.
 
Texasian said:
Better for who? Certainly wouldn't have been better for Somerville's development goals.

The Gov Center garage work is an extraordinary circumstance, and it would have been bizarre to plan a permanent infrastructure build around a temporary circumstance, no matter how painful things are going to be over the next couple weeks.
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In other words, car infrastructure is horrendously destructive to the urban fabric, public transport included.

The GLX could not have opened at a worse time than right when the garage began demolition. Weekend shutdowns of the Green and Orange Lines only began the week after the Union Square branch opened in March 2022.

There was a period of almost 2 years where the entire North Station - Lechmere segment was closed from 2020 - 2022.

In hindsight, it would've been best to just close the whole thing to Government Center in the 2020 - 2022 timeframe, and implode the entire garage during that time. Then the shuttle buses would run the entire stretch to Gov't Ctr from Lechmere.
 
Delvin4519 said:
The GLX could not have opened at a worse time than right when the garage began demolition. Weekend shutdowns of the Green and Orange Lines only began the week after the Union Square branch opened in March 2022.

There was a period of almost 2 years where the entire North Station - Lechmere segment was closed from 2020 - 2022.
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Order of operations is hard. Nothing you've said, though, makes the idea of trading the Union Square branch for better headways during non-standard operations any less wild though.
 
Delvin4519 said:
In other words, car infrastructure is horrendously destructive to the urban fabric, public transport included.

The GLX could not have opened at a worse time than right when the garage began demolition. Weekend shutdowns of the Green and Orange Lines only began the week after the Union Square branch opened in March 2022.

There was a period of almost 2 years where the entire North Station - Lechmere segment was closed from 2020 - 2022.

In hindsight, it would've been best to just close the whole thing to Government Center in the 2020 - 2022 timeframe, and implode the entire garage during that time. Then the shuttle buses would run the entire stretch to Gov't Ctr from Lechmere.
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The garage can't be imploded due to the tunnels and infrastructure underneath. I don't think you can plan a transit extension around one garage demolition, it's just unfortunate timing.

As excruciating as it is, the only way to take down that garage is a piece by piece dissection as is happening now. And it's a complex garage with multiple long spans, it's not something many have experience in doing, so I think they're figuring out how to take it down as it's happening. Just remember, as long as it's taken or will take, this is only temporary
 
Texasian said:
Order of operations is hard. Nothing you've said, though, makes the idea of trading the Union Square branch for better headways during non-standard operations any less wild though.
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Well I did say "In hindsight", first thing in the sentence.

In any case, branch vs. trunk service function will always mean there will always be more service in the trunk vs. the branches, and if there is a capacity restriction in the trunk, then the branches will always have that capacity restriction doubled, cutting branch service by half or more. That's just the way the North Station capacity restriction results in when 2 branches feed into it.
 
Delvin4519 said:
In any case, branch vs. trunk service function will always mean there will always be more service in the trunk vs. the branches, and if there is a capacity restriction in the trunk, then the branches will always have that capacity restriction doubled, cutting branch service by half or more. That's just the way the North Station capacity restriction results in when 2 branches feed into it.
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IIRC, Green Line never had more than 2 branches at Lechmere and beyond in the first place, and before GLX there was typically only 1 branch that terminated at Lechmere. Majority of branches turned around at Park, Government Center and/or North Station.

So there has always been excess capacity on the northside branches (Union Sq and Medford/Tufts) compared to Boylston-Park, and this will likely remain true in the future. Lechmere, Union and Medford simply don't have the demand to warrant all GL branches.

In a future world where we build as many branches as possible on the Green Line, it can theoretically have 4 northside branches feeding into Lechmere (Grand Junction via Lechmere, Union Sq/Porter, Medford, Sullivan/Chelsea), and the branching may become a bottleneck. However, in that world, there will still be way more southside GL branches (Grand Junction via Kenmore, Harvard, Watertown, Boston College, Cleveland Circle, Riverside, Heath St/Arborway, Nubian, Seaport), which will necessitate some southside branches to be short-turned at Park or not enter the Boylston St and Tremont St subways at all. In any case, there will remain at least as much spare capacity to the north than to the south.

While it's generally true that branching will result in lower frequencies (see Red Line), this doesn't apply to GLX under normal circumstances. The crux of the issue isn't the GLX branching: the bottleneck is the switch at North Station. If GC-Park was closed instead of NS-GC, GLX could have used Brattle Loop and maintained the same frequency as normal.

(Side note: Does anyone have the diagram that shows each GL branch's historical northern terminus through time? I recall there was one on WIkipedia in one of the Green Line pages, but couldn't find it today. Perhaps @The EGE knows what's going on?)
 
Teban54 said:
So there has always been excess capacity on the northside branches (Union Sq and Medford/Tufts) compared to Boylston-Park, and this will likely remain true in the future. Lechmere, Union and Medford simply don't have the demand to warrant all GL branches.
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Admittedly this is anecdotal, but that doesn't ring true to me. GLX trains are standing room only every rush hour in both directions since like 2 months after it opened. Last week I think headways increased a bit because trains were notably at sardine-level, but quite Red-Sox-game-level. If there are any official GLX ridership numbers, they are vastly undercounted because nobody is validating their fare.
 
fattony said:
Admittedly this is anecdotal, but that doesn't ring true to me. GLX trains are standing room only every rush hour in both directions since like 2 months after it opened. Last week I think headways increased a bit because trains were notably at sardine-level, but quite Red-Sox-game-level. If there are any official GLX ridership numbers, they are vastly undercounted because nobody is validating their fare.
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spot-on assessment; my experiences on the GLX mirror yours.
 
Dont see why the T couldn’t operate it as two bidirectional tracks and have trains arrive and depart from both platforms like at Oak Grove, Alewife, ect. It’s annoying that trains could leave from either level, but isn’t directing passengers to the right platform what the T ambassadors are (should be?) for?

If your near HRT quality light rail can only manage headways unsuitable for even proper regional rail,
1) maybe, potentially, think about considering using 2 tracks,
2) Bustitute at least the Union branch to Leachmere to provide an actual usable service.

The current untenable headways seem like the T checking a box (yes you still technically CAN take a trolley to Union) rather than actually caring about providing useful transit.
 
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