Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

Charlie_mta said:
Yes, the thread about the garage is here.
Click to expand...

There's 2 threads for the same garage. The other one is here.

Bulfinch Crossing | Congress Street Garage | West End

5/7 IMG_0021 by David Z, on Flickr IMG_0027 by David Z, on Flickr
archboston.com

Anyhow, still slow. More GLX shutdowns at Haymarket to go.

AFAIK, everything to the right of this line is over on top of the GLX Green Line tunnel

1687738026309.png
 
I rode the shuttle into town (my first time) from Gilman Square on Sunday and was blown away by the insane routing we took. It looks like they are trying to hit all the stops on both branches with a single shuttle route, which makes the part looping around Union Square and the Target a complete mess. As for the second half of the journey I don't know what to say. When we got to Government Center I asked if that was the normal route. The driver said it's a shuttle (yes... I know that), and since it's new (?!?) he got lost and had to figure out his own way to get into town. I guess that explains the Rutherford Ave adventure and the bonus loop around Haymarket when he realized he couldn't turn left on Congress.
1687798020591.png


Later, on the way back I actually wound up on the same bus with the same driver. Thankfully, the jog over to Union Square isn't as painful (and doesn't require the extra loop) when going outbound. Still... seems suboptimal to have a single shuttle trying to hit both branches.
 
electronym said:
I rode the shuttle into town (my first time) from Gilman Square on Sunday and was blown away by the insane routing we took. It looks like they are trying to hit all the stops on both branches with a single shuttle route, which makes the part looping around Union Square and the Target a complete mess. As for the second half of the journey I don't know what to say. When we got to Government Center I asked if that was the normal route. The driver said it's a shuttle (yes... I know that), and since it's new (?!?) he got lost and had to figure out his own way to get into town. I guess that explains the Rutherford Ave adventure and the bonus loop around Haymarket when he realized he couldn't turn left on Congress.
View attachment 39572

Later, on the way back I actually wound up on the same bus with the same driver. Thankfully, the jog over to Union Square isn't as painful (and doesn't require the extra loop) when going outbound. Still... seems suboptimal to have a single shuttle trying to hit both branches.
Click to expand...
FWIW, the route that the shuttle should have taken in theory was mentioned in an older comment shown below:
Delvin4519 said:
Interesting choice to run a Green Line shuttle bus from Medford to Union Square to Lechmere.

Any ideas on if it's possible to optimize this routing?

View attachment 38720
View attachment 38721
View attachment 38722View attachment 38723
Click to expand...
The Union Square stop is supposed to be to the north of Somerville Ave (westbound) in both directions, with signs for shuttles placed right next to each other. I took this picture on Saturday:
20230624_190642[1].jpg

Still a bit of detour to serve Union Square, but not nearly as bad.

Also, Haymarket was intended to be served in the inbound direction.
 
jklo said:
That's comical.
Click to expand...

This is unreal - there is a full 0.8mi restriction WB from Lechmere to Union Square. Why even run service at that point? Everyone would be better served just walking to Lechmere and jumping on the train there. That way they can work on fixing the brand new track that was installed.. 2 months ago?
 
Delvin4519 said:
GLX Union Square now at 3 MPH speed restriction

Speed Restrictions | Performance Metrics | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.
www.mbta.com www.mbta.com

View attachment 39624
Click to expand...

Having a hard time putting to words how hopeless this makes me feel. People in this community (myself included) have been beating the drum on the need for more TOD, road diets, ect… while snickering at the outdated notions of the parking minimum crowd.

With service this bad on a brand new line, how could I refute someone who believes mode shift away from SOVs is a quality of life reduction? How could l ask for less parking at all the new TOD since “everyone would take the T”, when with service this bad anyone who could afford to live there would opt to drive/ uber instead? How can l advocate to spend billions of dollars on the NSRL, when the sadly correct perception of new transit is 20 minute headways, then traveling at walking pace once the train eventually shows up?

As sad as it is to admit, all those straw men are 100% correct right now, l at least have egg on my face, and the trend is NOT looking up.

In 100 years when I-93 has been made redundant by flying cars or whatever, 70% odds people could look down from where the upper deck used to be and still find the Orange Line trundling along at 4 MPH through that cursed Sullivan slowzone.
 
Last edited:
Highwayguy said:
Having a hard time putting to words how hopeless this makes me feel. People in this community (myself included) have been beating the drum on the need for more TOD, road diets, ect… while snickering at the outdated notions of the parking minimum crowd.

With service this bad on a brand new line, how could I refute someone who believes mode shift away from SOVs is a quality of life reduction? How could l ask for less parking at all the new TOD since “everyone would take the T”, when with service this bad anyone who could afford to live there would opt to drive/ uber instead? How can l advocate to spend billions of dollars on the NSRL, when the sadly correct perception of new transit is 20 minute headways, then traveling at walking pace once the train eventually shows up?

As sad as it is to admit, all those straw men are 100% correct right now, l at least have egg on my face, and the trend is NOT looking up.

In 100 years when I-93 has been made redundant by flying cars or whatever, 70% odds people could look down from where the upper deck used to be and still find the Orange Line trundling along at 4 MPH through that cursed Sullivan slowzone.
Click to expand...

Yea. As soon as I found Not Just Bikes saying "there's no hope for American and Canadian cities, get out", then seeing news like this is quite depressing and only reinforces NJB's messaging to be the truth case. Then I see a Globe article saying the ceiling collapsed at DTX and the MBTA is losing workers at a new record breaking pace this spring.

Boston will be flooded underwater by the sea, before the Blue-Red connector even gets built, or CR electrification and BNRD gets underway.

I really can't believe the GLX has like 6+ speed restrictions of 3 MPH on both branches. I don't get it. How come Amsterdam is able to close an entire throughfare for cars, remove 10,000 parking spaces, and build a North-South Metro line; yet the GLX needs speed restrictions less than a week after the CPX/GLX reached full completion, and GLX trains can only run every 25 minutes during the GCG Haymarket shutdown?

At this rate, Europe will have high speed rail between every single European capital city, meanwhile the entire GLX will turn into an 3 MPH slow zone.
 
sneijder said:
This is unreal - there is a full 0.8mi restriction WB from Lechmere to Union Square. Why even run service at that point? Everyone would be better served just walking to Lechmere and jumping on the train there. That way they can work on fixing the brand new track that was installed.. 2 months ago?
Click to expand...

It's a 12 minute walk to East Somerville, I would definitely take that walk over a 3 MPH joke of a train.
 
Highwayguy said:
Having a hard time putting to words how hopeless this makes me feel. People in this community (myself included) have been beating the drum on the need for more TOD, road diets, ect… while snickering at the outdated notions of the parking minimum crowd.

With service this bad on a brand new line, how could I refute someone who believes mode shift away from SOVs is a quality of life reduction? How could l ask for less parking at all the new TOD since “everyone would take the T”, when with service this bad anyone who could afford to live there would opt to drive/ uber instead? How can l advocate to spend billions of dollars on the NSRL, when the sadly correct perception of new transit is 20 minute headways, then traveling at walking pace once the train eventually shows up?

As sad as it is to admit, all those straw men are 100% correct right now, l at least have egg on my face, and the trend is NOT looking up.

In 100 years when I-93 has been made redundant by flying cars or whatever, 70% odds people could look down from where the upper deck used to be and still find the Orange Line trundling along at 4 MPH through that cursed Sullivan slowzone.
Click to expand...


This slow zone is currently 200 feet long. I don’t know how long it was yesterday, but it doesn’t appear to have any major effects on travel times in the trip data. The slow zone currently takes 45 seconds to traverse. While this may be emblematic of larger issues, it isn’t in and of itself as big of an issue as the last few comments are making it out to be. The extra 40-45 seconds is not going to make it so people can walk between Lechmere and Union Square more quickly than take the train. Let’s be real here.
 
bigeman312 said:
This slow zone is currently 200 feet long. I don’t know how long it was yesterday, but it doesn’t appear to have any major effects on travel times in the trip data. The slow zone currently takes 45 seconds to traverse. While this may be emblematic of larger issues, it isn’t in and of itself as big of an issue as the last few comments are making it out to be. The extra 40-45 seconds is not going to make it so people can walk between Lechmere and Union Square more quickly than take the train. Let’s be real here.
Click to expand...

The voice of reason.

Some of the comment make is sound like its a permanent situation.
 
jklo said:
The track is brand new. How could there be problems with it?
Click to expand...

Ever go to a restaurant or hotel or amusement park or _________________during the first few months of operation? "New" doesn't mean w/o hiccups and wrinkles and growing pains. Hell, experienced gear-heads always recommend not buying a completely new or completely redisigned car, but rather waiting for year 2 or 3 when they've addressed the inevitable bugs and wrong steps. Same applies to lots of technology ("best wait for v2 of that thing.").

On top of that, as previously speculated, the official opening of the GLX was likely rushed, so that the former governor could claim ownership of the victory, so that likely contributes to the amount of such "hiccups."
 
bigeman312 said:
This slow zone is currently 200 feet long. I don’t know how long it was yesterday, but it doesn’t appear to have any major effects on travel times in the trip data. The slow zone currently takes 45 seconds to traverse. While this may be emblematic of larger issues, it isn’t in and of itself as big of an issue as the last few comments are making it out to be. The extra 40-45 seconds is not going to make it so people can walk between Lechmere and Union Square more quickly than take the train. Let’s be real here.
Click to expand...

Apparently it seemed to be a a data entering error, but a 0.8 mile slow zone is still believeable since the JFK - NQ slow zone is about 1.1 miles long.

1687987736694.png
 
bigeman312 said:
This slow zone is currently 200 feet long. I don’t know how long it was yesterday, but it doesn’t appear to have any major effects on travel times in the trip data. The slow zone currently takes 45 seconds to traverse. While this may be emblematic of larger issues, it isn’t in and of itself as big of an issue as the last few comments are making it out to be. The extra 40-45 seconds is not going to make it so people can walk between Lechmere and Union Square more quickly than take the train. Let’s be real here.
Click to expand...

I was running off the reply that stated it was the full length of the branch, glad it’s only 200’. My general sentiment remains the same however since this is more a case of the straw that broke my mental camel’s back. Don’t blame you if you thought I wanted to “burn it all down over one slowzone”. I meant, “Having a hard time putting to words…” literally; I suck at writing 😂.

Big picture, 100% agree less than a minute in isolation doesn’t matter, but less than a minute multiplied by all the other 40 second slowzones is how you end up with 2 Hrs Alewife to Braintree and anyone but the desperate driving. Death by 1000 papercuts has the same outcome as a shotgun blast to the face except you suffer longer.

Bigger picture, slow zones have exploded since summer of ‘22, all during a time when the T was flush with Covid money and under reduced ridership pressures. How confident are we that the T can turn this around going forward, but this time after falling over the fiscal cliff? If even the drastic measure of shutting the Orange line for a month has somehow resulted in more than doubling the slow zone penalty, Im struggling to see any scenerio where “Rapid Transit” in this town isn’t an oxymoron anytime soon.

Not to mention the 6 month long reduced headways due to the dispatcher shortage have lingered on for over a year now, even though there are an adequate number of dispatchers? Or for that matter the bus driver shortage that has reduced my sub 15 min headway bus line pre Covid to maayyybe only every 40 even on paper.

In the face of all of the above, as someone who does show up to my ‘burbs ZBA and planning committee meetings to real life advocate for this stuff, l dont foresee our already uphill climb to affect smart growth and reduce emissions becoming any easier.
 
Last edited:
There is an argument for anything. The central artery tunnel was obsolete by the time it was finished. The silver lining is a transit system extension got built as part of the overall plan.
 
Whelp, we've got the next Green Line service suspensions on the books:
- Union Square branch is being suspended 7/18-8/28 for MassDOT to do repairs on the Squire Bridge. No shuttles will be provided.
- Service between North Station and Gov Center is being suspended 7/29-8/9

Add these to the existing B line shutdown 7/17-28, and the "basically everything from the portals to Government Center"shutdown 7/15-16.

I'm honestly terrified at what the inspections are going to uncover.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top