Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

Texasian said:
Whelp, we've got the next Green Line service suspensions on the books:
- Union Square branch is being suspended 7/18-8/28 for MassDOT to do repairs on the Squire Bridge. No shuttles will be provided.
- Service between North Station and Gov Center is being suspended 7/29-8/9

Add these to the existing B line shutdown 7/17-28, and the "basically everything from the portals to Government Center"shutdown 7/15-16.

I'm honestly terrified at what the inspections are going to uncover.
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If I'm reading that right that means the Medford branch will run essentially normal ish 11-12 minute headways between 7/29 - 8/9? Since there's no Union Square branch to split service in half 7/18 - 8/28.

7/15-7/16 will be 25 minute GLX headways to North Station since Union Square is still open until 7/18.
 
citydweller said:
The voice of reason.

Some of the comment make is sound like its a permanent situation.
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You're right. To get so upset for a short slow is a bit hysterical. So how about a 42 day shutdown instead?

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Okay, I meme'd. Highwayguy's post might be a bit too doomer-ish, but I think the core part is true (especially since we have a 42 day shutdown instead). While we are not a monolith, we generally advocate towards infrastructure and development that relies on non-car modes. There is a cumulative sense with all these issues. A lot lately isn't at all the MBTA's fault. Virtually everyone here knows it's not the MBTA fault about the garage. This 42-day shutdown is not the MBTA's fault either. But it doesn't change the pain as users in this either. It is kinda hard to call for people to ride the T more when you literally cannot.
 
HenryAlan said:
How does the bridge over Fitchburg tracks compare to the North Bank bridge? It strikes me as conceptually similar, but I don't know whether the grades are actually alike. It may be a few weeks before I get a chance to ride the GLX path, but that's the main thing I'll be trying to figure out or understand about it when I do get the chance.
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I was able to ride this on Sunday, and wanted to offer up a few thoughts. First, it's definitely too narrow. There were quite a few walkers and slower bike riders, and it was often not very easy to pass them due to the lack of available space. Second, the detour at the high school was a bit awkward and probably would not be comfortable riding for some less experienced bike riders. And for walkers, it's a lot of extra distance. I know that is temporary, but for the moment it's a valid observation.

As for the bridge, I loved the view it afforded of the various rights of way and flying junction spaghetti. I only wish there had been either a wider section or an observation platform, because I could have easily spent a fair amount of time up there enjoying the view and rail fanning. But it's too narrow! Had I stopped to do anything, I would have caused some congestion, which I definitely do not like to do. So I just rode through, rather than stopping. I think that's a real unfortunate reality. How much would a viewing platform have added to the overall cost? Seems like a missed opportunity and one we likely won't fix any time soon. My other bridge comment is that the incline is indeed quite steep compared to similar infrastructure I've used elsewhere around Boston. On the way up, I passed three other bike riders who were clearly struggling. None of them stopped to walk the bike, but they were definitely not having fun. I wonder how accessible it actually is for wheel chair users.
 
ant8904 said:
You're right. To get so upset for a short slow is a bit hysterical. So how about a 42 day shutdown instead?

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Okay, I meme'd. Highwayguy's post might be a bit too doomer-ish, but I think the core part is true (especially since we have a 42 day shutdown instead). While we are not a monolith, we generally advocate towards infrastructure and development that relies on non-car modes. There is a cumulative sense with all these issues. A lot lately isn't at all the MBTA's fault. Virtually everyone here knows it's not the MBTA fault about the garage. This 42-day shutdown is not the MBTA's fault either. But it doesn't change the pain as users in this either. It is kinda hard to call for people to ride the T more when you literally cannot.
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To be fair Not Just Bikes is also cycnical and a quite doomerish in his messaging, just like Highwayguy's comment. I can't blame 'em, and I have similar sentiments. It is certainly true it's not all the MBTA's fault. Boston's cost of living skyrocketing to the point where MBTA wages can't keep up, forcing workers to flee to "cheaper" (car dependent) places, worsening headways and track conditions on the GLX and bus routes alike. Adding 2,000 positions with a upcoming fiscal cliff, then trying to get state support for some increased wages for all that, is a tall order. When the slow zone disaster struck, I had a feeling that the GLX would have slow zones by June or so, and sadly, it panned out.

Anyhow, here's an optimistic take from reddit, suggesting the Green Line shutdowns, while it might add some more slow zones, the MBTA slow zone update user on reddit states "A temporary lull in lifting slow zones will allow the MBTA to forumlate better plans for lifting them" (or perhaps to alleviate Sumner Tunnel closures by not forcing people onto shuttle buses every day, just that one day "rare" instance a derailed train catching fire).

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Just a note July 15-16 is a full systems inspection of the green line tunnel, not just track. It's not entirely clear if this is a result of the new Chief Safety Officer calling for more thorough inspections, internal suggestions for inspection, and/or were always planned.

Could open some sizeable cans of worms, which I imagine will be split between maintenance/track work as is being done NOW, and inform how GLT/type 10 accommodations progress. I wouldn't be surprised if that program's required budget has to increase.
 
Texasian said:
Whelp, we've got the next Green Line service suspensions on the books:
- Union Square branch is being suspended 7/18-8/28 for MassDOT to do repairs on the Squire Bridge. No shuttles will be provided.
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Something tells me that the repairs are going to take a lot longer than 42 days. From May of last year:

Brick Top said:
I recently chatted with some construction workers surveying Squire's Bridge, which carries McGrath over the commuter rail and Union Square branch GLX tracks by Twin City Plaza. They said that the retaining wall on the southeast side is in really poor shape, and may require significant fortification. Given the overall poor condition of the bridge, I would not be surprised if rail traffic under the bridge will need to be disrupted in the near future to accommodate major repairs to the bridge.
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been relying on the T a lot lately. i am very sad to see how low the red line has sunk (that was my daily commute during elementary, HS, and some of college -- a while ago -- and it used to be nearly flawless) and, yeah, the slow zones are a drag and i hope they figure their shit out and are more transparent with their riders/the public. that said, i haven't had any issues getting to work, meetings, social gatherings on time while using the T (mostly GL, RL, and OL). everyone's aware of the current struggles, plan to leave earlier than you might have 5-10 years ago, fucking suck it up, and be grateful for what we have. it still works and (presumably) they'll iron out these present-day issues eventually. it's really not a big deal at all.
 
chrisbrat said:
been relying on the T a lot lately. i am very sad to see how low the red line has sunk (that was my daily commute during elementary, HS, and some of college -- a while ago -- and it used to be nearly flawless) and, yeah, the slow zones are a drag and i hope they figure their shit out and are more transparent with their riders/the public. that said, i haven't had any issues getting to work, meetings, social gatherings on time while using the T (mostly GL, RL, and OL). everyone's aware of the current struggles, plan to leave earlier than you might have 5-10 years ago, fucking suck it up, and be grateful for what we have. it still works and (presumably) they'll iron out these present-day issues eventually. it's really not a big deal at all.
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In the grand scheme of the universe in which our galaxy is only one of hundreds of billions, yes, these slow zones and the entirety of our species is a tiny insignificant deal.

In the context of Boston’s built environment, which is what this forum is devoted to, the struggles with moving people through the city in an efficient and timely manner, and the incentivizing of less geometrically efficient, more harmful modes of transit, is in fact a pretty big deal. Does it get overstated sometimes? Yes. But here I believe you are downplaying the issue, at least within the context of this forum.
 
I think you are both right.
The conditions on the ground when I ride the T are never as bad as one would think if they just followed this board, transit twitter, etc.
That being said, I don't think "suck it up and be grateful for what we have" is quite correct either--"Suck it up and be grateful for what we have" is exactly how the MBTA arrived in this state, and will potentiate the continued gradual worsening of the system.
While complaining on this board doesn't exactly solve any problems directly, it will be the increased engagement of MA citizens with the operation of the T and transit policy generally that will ultimately determine whether we can/will improve our systems.
 
Yeah, I agree with both takes, too. I don't ride the T all that much, since the vast majority of the time, I'd rather bike anyway. And with all the publicized woes of late, the bike feels like even more of the right choice. But I still do use various MBTA options, and mostly, they still work after a fashion. There are two things that can make for a really bad experience. One, is long headways, which can mostly be mitigated by using transit apps and giving myself more time. The other issue, is that the Red Line truly is terrible right now, to such extent that I simply won't use it.

So, not a complete disaster, still mostly usable, but absolutely not something we should simply accept and allow to become status quo.
 
The "suck it up and be grateful for what we have... ... really not a big deal at all " is more than a little incorrect. It's so wrong that it drags any merit in the rest of the post out the window. That's a line reserved for a child whining about getting a Xbox while wanting a Playstation. Or for a transit version, dealing with a Red Sox crowd. This is not a "First world problem".

Has it hit complete unusability? No. But I'm not going to run with "suck it up" and "it's really not big deal at all". It's okay to view these developments as recognize this situation does suck. I guess one can take a random ride and assess it's more pleasant than what this board would give such an impression. But that's just the imprecision of language in trying to communicate the situation rather than the issues are overhyped. No, if you ride the Red line, the slow zones is a genuine pain that makes travel times so long that it's just padding more time - time is valuable and a lot of my friends have enough means that they opting to use other modes. Things like using the GLX on a tear-down-garage weekend - I experienced it first-hand that is completely usable unless you have much free time that you can pad whole extra hours to the trip.

10 years ago, the things you hear on this board/Twitter/news/etc, you can ride the MBTA for weeks and yet not be able to run it the issue on average. Sure a dramatic fire are rare. But the slowzones and headways are measurable data and while our minds can over/under exaggerate the situation, the numbers are the numbers. The good news is it's down from the worst that was ~late March/April 2023. The bad news is it still a long way around from the service levels of the old norm, much less reaching standards that I had hope when I made treads like this.
 
ant8904 said:
The "suck it up and be grateful for what we have... ... really not a big deal at all " is more than a little incorrect. It's so wrong that it drags any merit in the rest of the post out the window. That's a line reserved for a child whining about getting a Xbox while wanting a Playstation. Or for a transit version, dealing with a Red Sox crowd. This is not a "First world problem".

Has it hit complete unusability? No. But I'm not going to run with "suck it up" and "it's really not big deal at all". It's okay to view these developments as recognize this situation does suck. I guess one can take a random ride and assess it's more pleasant than what this board would give such an impression. But that's just the imprecision of language in trying to communicate the situation rather than the issues are overhyped. No, if you ride the Red line, the slow zones is a genuine pain that makes travel times so long that it's just padding more time - time is valuable and a lot of my friends have enough means that they opting to use other modes. Things like using the GLX on a tear-down-garage weekend - I experienced it first-hand that is completely usable unless you have much free time that you can pad whole extra hours to the trip.

10 years ago, the things you hear on this board/Twitter/news/etc, you can ride the MBTA for weeks and yet not be able to run it the issue on average. Sure a dramatic fire are rare. But the slowzones and headways are measurable data and while our minds can over/under exaggerate the situation, the numbers are the numbers. The good news is it's down from the worst that was ~late March/April 2023. The bad news is it still a long way around from the service levels of the old norm, much less reaching standards that I had hope when I made treads like this.
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I subscribe to all kinds of transit newsletters. In the past, articles about the MBTA have been mostly positive. However, over the last 2 years, almost every "breaking news" about transit in the Boston area has been about trains on fire, delayed openings, deaths and accidents, slow-downs, budget woes, etc. It's totally depressing.

Rail | Mass Transit (masstransitmag.com)

Search | Mass Transit (masstransitmag.com)
 
I think what the above arguments are missing is that you can simultaneously assess something as being really bad, yet still have hope. For instance: hope that we have a new administration that cares more than the last; hope that there's a promising new GM; hope that there's still a critical mass of advocates and users who are pressing for accountability...

When everyone who cares gives up hope, that's a whole other level...

Right now, to me, things are simultaneously really bad; yet, somehow I still have (some amount of) hope. I care so much about the T eventually working that it's going to take a whole lot (even more than what we've experienced thus far) for me to give up hope. But, that said, I am outraged about the present state of things and definitely do not harbor a "just suck it up" mentality either. I would encourage some of my fellow forumers who seem on the verge of giving up hope to stick it out for longer to be a part of the critical mass who still cares.
 
Java King said:
I subscribe to all kinds of transit newsletters. In the past, articles about the MBTA have been mostly positive. However, over the last 2 years, almost every "breaking news" about transit in the Boston area has been about trains on fire, delayed openings, deaths and accidents, slow-downs, budget woes, etc. It's totally depressing.

Rail | Mass Transit (masstransitmag.com)

Search | Mass Transit (masstransitmag.com)
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Not that those things haven't been happening a lot, but that corresponds to when the Globe started making bashing the MBTA (often deservedly) a Red Sox-level reporting obsession.

A lot more ink has been given to these problems than would have before. That's theoretically a good thing, though it hasn't led to much improvement so far.
 
Yea. The thing is, is that the timeline stretches out years. The new GM's tenure stated is about 5 years IIRC, so we wouldn't know the actual results for another 5 years, and all that amount of time potentially will fall onto the burden of transit riders.

I do still care, and I want to have hope, but there are an insane amount of things working against it. Bus service is still worsening and workers leaving at record pace due to local cost of living, and the trend hasn't reversed yet; unlike slow zones. I don't really feel or sense that there is a critical mass, aside form Cambridge/Somerville having Mike Connolly. r/boston and twitter users seem to skew towards transit riders, so it's probably unrepresentive of public opinion, since public meetings seem to skew the other way towards homeowners/car drivers. I'd still imagine the average person driving and wanting an easier time with driving.

The Globe does seem to be reporting on the MBTA a lot more, but I'm not sure if it's a correlation with MBTA failures, or if it would still happen otherwise.

The usability depends on whether someone is completely transit dependent and has no other choice or time to go around, vs. those using it for lesiure or have the time to spare. I have taken the GLX to and from to try to make a connection to an infrequent bus route, and it is fustrating. My bus route went from every 7-8 minutes rush hour and every 15-18 midday, pre-COVID, and now it's every 25-30 minutes rush hour and every 45-52 midday.

I've taken the GLX during a GCG garage shutdown, during the systemwide slow zones. Another time the GLX was out of power, forcing me to travel 35 minutes to find another infrequent bus route and connect back to the same infrequent bus route at its other terminal; in another instance, I was at the terminal of the GLX and there were simply no trains for 30 minutes, no explaination, nothing. One more instance, the GLX train sat in the tunnel just after North Station for 20 minutes, and the only way I knew what was going on was the MBTA's twitter account saying there was police activity at the next stop, and I missed my connection to the infrequent bus and had to wait 27min for the next one. I don't even take the GLX regularly, only about 7 days round trip, total. I don't get how I only used the GLX 7 times, yet I had about 5 of the 7 instances the GLX is broken in one manner or another.

Yet, pre-COVID, I used the E branch every day for 4 years, and I only ever encountered like 1 or 2 major-ish issues on the subway, 7 minutes would be the longest I'd ever wait for a train, and I used to think having to wait 18-23 minutes almost every day for a bus was pretty bad.

The folks who have access to the key bus routes have it a lot easier when the subway system decides to mess up, but along an infrequent bus route, the subway's issues are much more problematic.
 
www.wbur.org

Project requiring Green Line Extension closure postponed to September

A spokesperson for Healey's office said transportation leaders did not want the originally planned 42-day closure between Union Square and Lechmere stations to take place at the same time as the Sumner Tunnel closure, which began Wednesday and is expected to bring major traffic to the region's...
www.wbur.org www.wbur.org
 
themissinglink said:
www.wbur.org

Project requiring Green Line Extension closure postponed to September

A spokesperson for Healey's office said transportation leaders did not want the originally planned 42-day closure between Union Square and Lechmere stations to take place at the same time as the Sumner Tunnel closure, which began Wednesday and is expected to bring major traffic to the region's...
www.wbur.org www.wbur.org
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Delvin4519 said:
If I'm reading that right that means the Medford branch will run essentially normal ish 11-12 minute headways between 7/29 - 8/9? Since there's no Union Square branch to split service in half 7/18 - 8/28.

7/15-7/16 will be 25 minute GLX headways to North Station since Union Square is still open until 7/18.
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Medford Branch will be on 25 minute headways July 29 - August 9th for the GCG garage diversion. Therefore the earlier comment is no longer correct anymore with the Union Square closure.
 
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