Harvard - Allston Campus

Shepard said:
Jass is being a bit tongue-in-cheek - there have been proposals, and in fact there's a tunnel off of Harvard Station that extends towards the river - but I personally think it could be half a century until anything is seriously considered.

Ultimately if Harvard really pushes out to Allston, it's going to be necessary - shuttle buses will never cut it.
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Its been planned in so much that its appeared in official documents.

Obviously, nothing has gone past the "lets draw a line on this map" stage.
 
665px-Beacon_Park_Yard_February_2013.JPG


Finis.
 
kz1000ps said:
Whoa!
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Yep. Only freight remaining is the Everett terminal round trip that now runs non-stop out of Framingham, stopping about once a week in the engine house yard to serve Houghton Chemical. Engine house shuts 2nd week of April; that'll be the end of all refueling runs into Boston and any signs of activity underneath the Pike viaduct.



It'll look even emptier when CSX shows up after ground thaw to start ripping out the tracks and knock down the yard structures.
 
I read many years ago that if they got the chance the Turnpike Authority would straighten out that curve at the tolls. Do they still intend to?
 
PaulC said:
I read many years ago that if they got the chance the Turnpike Authority would straighten out that curve at the tolls. Do they still intend to?
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I don't believe that they can just build on land they don't own. They'd need to trade the current site of the road for the new one, and MassDOT would have to prioritize this project above 93/95, and Patrick would have to fully steamroll the toll collectors to get rid of the plaza - a lot is in the way.

I proposed this site on another thread for the 2024 Olympic Stadium... that's more or less the only way I can see this happening by then. :)
 
Also don't forget the MBTA is considering the reuse of part of the yard for a layover facility, at least for a number of years.
 
Make the Pike straight and turn the tolls into fully automated open road tolling like they're planning for the Tobin. Sounds like a win all around.

Change the Cambridge St interchange into a regular diamond or something.
 
The Turnpike Authority, desperate for money, sold all this land to Harvard.

So one can re-configure and dream all one wants, but in the end, Harvard is not going to be satisfied with less developable land than it has now. Harvard paid about $250 million for about 140 acres in two purchases from the Turnpike. Harvard and BU, for all practical purposes, abut each other.
 
stellarfun said:
The Turnpike Authority, desperate for money, sold all this land to Harvard.

So one can re-configure and dream all one wants, but in the end, Harvard is not going to be satisfied with less developable land than it has now. Harvard paid about $250 million for about 140 acres in two purchases from the Turnpike. Harvard and BU, for all practical purposes, abut each other.
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CSX sold the land to harvard, the state had nothing to do with it.

If the pike is configured to be straight along the B&A tracks instead of its wonky curve Harvard will have more developable land than what currently exists. Right now its a rather isolated and awkwardly shaped parcel accessible only from two very small underpasses. My guess is Harvard assumed on their purchase the pike would be reconfigured after CSX's departure and before they built anything.

My underlying assumption is that Harvard bought it just to buy it and has no idea what they are going to do with it. The parcel is going to be left to rot, unused for the first time in over 150 years. They don't even have plans for the Sears warehouse pad, and that is far closer to the HBS than Beacon Park. Harvard's long term land banking should be illegal.
 
I've always wondered about Harvard buying the CSX parcel. I can't imagine them developing it with the Pike in its current alignment. Now, seeing all that open land, I propose the following crazy idea.

Build a tunnel for the Pike, more or less from where it goes under Cambridge Street, straightening the curve. It seems like it would be relatively straightforward to do, since the land in the tunnel path is now empty. I'd love the tunnel to extend all the way to where the Pike currently goes under Commonwealth Ave, but then they'd be tunneling under the active Pike--not going to happen. But perhaps they could have the tunnel go as far as Nickerson Field, and then have it continue at surface grade, instead of having it elevated. BU would get a nice view, and the view from the Charles along that section would be significantly improved. Harvard pays for the tunnel, and in exchange they get the land the pike currently is on, thereby unifying their Allston parcels with the CSX parcel--with the Cambridge interchange threaded through it. Maybe BU would chip in as well, and get some of the CSX parcel in exchange.
 
davem said:
CSX sold the land to harvard, the state had nothing to do with it.

If the pike is configured to be straight along the B&A tracks instead of its wonky curve Harvard will have more developable land than what currently exists. Right now its a rather isolated and awkwardly shaped parcel accessible only from two very small underpasses. My guess is Harvard assumed on their purchase the pike would be reconfigured after CSX's departure and before they built anything.

My underlying assumption is that Harvard bought it just to buy it and has no idea what they are going to do with it. The parcel is going to be left to rot, unused for the first time in over 150 years. They don't even have plans for the Sears warehouse pad, and that is far closer to the HBS than Beacon Park. Harvard's long term land banking should be illegal.
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If true, this is pretty unfortunate. You will have a large swatch of land that will sit empty and dark at night for years to come. An eyesore if you ask me.
 
davem said:
CSX sold the land to harvard, the state had nothing to do with it.

If the pike is configured to be straight along the B&A tracks instead of its wonky curve Harvard will have more developable land than what currently exists. Right now its a rather isolated and awkwardly shaped parcel accessible only from two very small underpasses. My guess is Harvard assumed on their purchase the pike would be reconfigured after CSX's departure and before they built anything.

My underlying assumption is that Harvard bought it just to buy it and has no idea what they are going to do with it. The parcel is going to be left to rot, unused for the first time in over 150 years. They don't even have plans for the Sears warehouse pad, and that is far closer to the HBS than Beacon Park. Harvard's long term land banking should be illegal.
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From 10 years ago.
Harvard and Boston University are both eyeing Allston industrial properties put up for sale on Monday by the debt-ridden Massachusetts Turnpike Authority.

Located south of the Business School and lying adjacent to other Harvard properties, the 91-acre site is the largest single parcel to come to market, bigger even than the adjacent 47-acre Allston Landing North parcel, which harvard bought from the Turnpike for $151 million in 2000.

However, a number of obstacles stand in the way of development—the property is crisscrossed by miles of iron and concrete, cut in two pieces by the turnpike, and dominated by rail lines owned by CSX—which has rights to use the land in perpetuity.
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January 2003
http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article/2003/1/29/harvard-and-bu-set-sights-on/
 
The Boston Globe reported that one of the easements granted to the MBTA “would allow a second main-line track through the property, a move that could bring a new commuter rail stop to Harvard’s doorstep.” And the paper reported that the deal also gives Harvard the right to move the turnpike and reconfigure the busy Allston toll interchange. Harvard officials have previously stressed the importance of developing an adequate transportation infrastructure for any future Allston campus.

http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/over-91-acre-allston-pur-html
 
Matthew said:
Also don't forget the MBTA is considering the reuse of part of the yard for a layover facility, at least for a number of years.
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That's only the engine house yard next to Storrow. There's no buildable property there except for the Houghton Chemical plant behind the Doubletree (if Houghton were paid to relocate) because of lack of feasible access to the street grid. And that's probably not going to change much even if they straighten the Pike because the ramps are still going to interface there. I don't think very much is lost if that parcel can't be redeveloped. At the very least it'll be the very very very last piece that Harvard contemplates. The main yard is the big prize.

What they could do with it is repurpose the current yard driveway/Storrow U-turn that traces around the loop track into a proper Pike WB-to-Storrow EB ramp. Wouldn't take more than one season's worth of construction to build an earthen mound and small incline connecting that to the existing ramp. Partial solution, but an easy, quick, and dirt cheap one they can do now to take some meaningful load off that intersection. Good excuse to drop the WB-to-Storrow tolls and encourage more intra-city Pike usage. The T can access the yard from the maintenance slip ramp on Pike WB if it wants to keep using the area as a train yard.

davem said:
CSX sold the land to harvard, the state had nothing to do with it.

If the pike is configured to be straight along the B&A tracks instead of its wonky curve Harvard will have more developable land than what currently exists. Right now its a rather isolated and awkwardly shaped parcel accessible only from two very small underpasses. My guess is Harvard assumed on their purchase the pike would be reconfigured after CSX's departure and before they built anything.

My underlying assumption is that Harvard bought it just to buy it and has no idea what they are going to do with it. The parcel is going to be left to rot, unused for the first time in over 150 years. They don't even have plans for the Sears warehouse pad, and that is far closer to the HBS than Beacon Park. Harvard's long term land banking should be illegal.
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Oh yes. And it'll be land directly facing Cambridge St. Right now there's only one dreary underpass from the Cambridge St./Lincoln St. intersection accessing the whole area, and a roundabout route off Cambridge/Storrow through the engine yard and underneath the Pike viaduct. Yes...you can build off the BU street grid on overpasses without too much problem. But how in the hell are they going to get over to Lower Allston and actually serve the Harvard Campus? Nearly every straight-line path is impacted in some way by layers of Pike infrastructure.

I sure wouldn't build on it until those problems were solved. It's virtually useless to the university until there's some real accessibility to the street grid across the Pike. Can't do that as long as it's there. The overlapping spaghetti ramps, inclines, and embankments make it nearly impossible to get a straight shot to N. Harvard or Windom/Rotterdam/Western Ave. The most useful stuff they can do immediately is the CSX truck parking lot on Western and the wasteland on Rotterdam. And they ain't exactly doing much with those. The other side of the Pike chasm might as well be a different country.

Do the land swap. More acreage, ability to de-embank Cambridge St. between Windom and a (compacted) ramp overpass and get some street-facing development, and a way simplified ramp layout that only leaves the engine yard in a state of no-man's land and might even re-claim some riverfront space if the demolished third of the viaduct allows Storrow to get shifted over a few dozen feet.

TallIsGood said:
The Boston Globe reported that one of the easements granted to the MBTA “would allow a second main-line track through the property, a move that could bring a new commuter rail stop to Harvard’s doorstep.” And the paper reported that the deal also gives Harvard the right to move the turnpike and reconfigure the busy Allston toll interchange. Harvard officials have previously stressed the importance of developing an adequate transportation infrastructure for any future Allston campus.

http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/over-91-acre-allston-pur-html
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There's not going to be a CR stop there. How the hell would you get to it? How would you tie it in to any area bus routes? It'd be the Pleasant St. B stop on a choo-choo...BU Student Village-serving only. Allston Landing's going to be the only stop in that area, and hopefully its general Everett St. siting comes with ped/bus loop frills down the Braintree St. block so it's well-accessible from the 66, etc.

No easement required for the 2nd mainline track. The state owns the mainline...everything a 4-track width along the retaining wall and underneath the viaduct. Trace a straight line from the northerly Cambridge St. overpass abutment straight to the viaduct and that's the Harvard vs. MBTA property line. It's only a 1-track squeeze today because when the Pike's construction busted down the size of Beacon Park the Turnpike Authority allowed 3 of 4 mainline tracks to be used as yard leads. They're going to rectify that ASAP at ground thaw this spring when the T lays a passenger-grade second track and reworks the interlockings and Grand Junction switches to their control (CSX dispatch still controls everything in the yard vicinity). The Worcester line can in the future easily fit a long 3rd track passing siding from the dip under the viaduct out to Portsmouth St. so express trains or trains going to/from the Grand Junction can bypass locals at Allston station.
 
So an update on Harvard-Allston happenings. The current bone of contention is the planned bus/truck maintenance facility at 28 Travis Street. The community's concern is noise and pollution next to a residential neighborhood, and also the fact that it's so close to Barry's Corner. They'd rather that land be used for homes or commerce tying into Barry's Corner. They ask why not use Romar's land for bus/truck maintenance, which Harvard will also own, just down the street? Can't say I disagree.

Harvard has finally promised [provisionally] to offer residents access to the shuttle bus they run. So that's good. They claim that they have to run it by the MBTA first to make sure that "it's ok." Hmm.
 
I think part of the confusion about who owns the land is that CSX, which held an easement in perpetuity, has been paying the property taxes on the land. That has kept the land on the tax rolls. Property that is not on the tax rolls, e.g., the Mass Pike by BU, on which no taxes are paid, is shown as being owned by Harvard.
See:
http://hubmaps1.cityofboston.gov/egis/Map.aspx?PropertyID=2100396010


Travis St. was formerly a major warehouse garage for Comcast. Harvard has actually demolished about half the building(s) area when it built the subsurface garage etc for the science complex. The operations Harvard proposes to move to Travis St are now at Barry's Corner, across from the current Charlesview. I guess it was acceptable for Charlesview residents to have to 'endure' the presence of this warehouse / fleet operations activity. The fleet operations / warehouse is being displaced by the Samuels project on the MW part of Barry's Corner.

I think Romar lies within the area that Harvard intends opening to private or joint Harvard/private development, e.g., like MIT and Kendall. So a move to Romar would be temporary, and perhaps briefly so.
 
stellarfun said:
I think Romar lies within the area that Harvard intends opening to private or joint Harvard/private development, e.g., like MIT and Kendall. So a move to Romar would be temporary, and perhaps briefly so.
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Romar Transportation is (has?) vacating its building and moving to Hopedale ASAP. Was a deal brokered by the state and CSX last spring because their yard siding through the back of Beacon Park is being cut. Grafton & Upton RR is now going to deliver the CSX loads to them at the new Hopedale intermodal yard. They'll be demolishing that scuzzy complex on Rotterdam and booting the low-rent moving company that shares the building.

The last industrial customer that has to be moved out is Houghton Chemical. The site behind the Doubletree is immediately developable, and CSX most certainly doesn't want to keep stopping in the engine yard to deliver tankers when they only get about 1 delivery per week. Especially if they sell the daily Everett run to Pan Am...then it's really inconvenient for them to run east of Framingham to serve one low-volume customer. I would not be surprised if this year they too get an offer they can't refuse to similarly move out to MetroWest.
 
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