Herald Square | 385 Congress St | Portland

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This Joe Boulos proposal had an office tower, hotel and convention center planned for the site and would have been a great anchor for the east end of Congress Street.
 
DV74 said:
I really don't understand why top of the Old Port parking is still there. Especially with the whole shift of workers. That is prime real estate and could make a huge impact on Portland with the right project. I keep hoping for a convention center as well.
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The private owners are still making tons of money with little overhead; that's why it's still there. I'm still surprised it didn't get the 325' limit, unless someone on the Recode committee was spiting the ownership.

PWMFlyer said:
My dream for the Top of the Old Port lot, discontinue the street and adjoin the herald sq lot, doesn't have to be as big, same concept
https://www.signatureboston.com/hynes/
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Considering part of the plan for Bayside involves extending Pearl all the way to Marginal Way, I doubt it would be discontinued. But they could always do a skybridge between the properties!

Personally, I realize this is a hot potato concept (essentially more urban renewal), but I've long thought that a convention center on Pleasant St., in the area across from the Civic Center, with a passage underneath Spring connecting to the Civic Center would be ideal.
 
Portlander said:
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This Joe Boulos proposal had an office tower, hotel and convention center planned for the site and would have been a great anchor for the east end of Congress Street.
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I asked, and unfortunately they said the market wouldn't support a building tall enough to beat City Hall Plaza in ManchVegas.
 
PWMFlyer said:
Would love to see a 5,000 seat venue like the MGM in Boston. Its very hard logistically to host events at the Merrill especially with the lack of a loading dock. https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=44cf...EY0QjhCRUU0MDdEQTZFMjQwODUmRk9STT1WSVJF&ntb=1
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Yes, MGM is a nice facility and it's next door to an outdoor one that seats over 40,000. We'd then have 5,000 standing outdoors (Thompson's Point), 7,000 at Hadlock, 6,000 at Fitzpatrick, 5,200 (Mem), 5,000 for this one, then 1,900 (M), 2,200 (E), and 6,200 (CIA) for indoor seated facilities. When the Civic Center first opened in the late 70s they were cramming in 9,000 for concerts. I still strongly think that Fitzpatrick should be an indoor soccer field with the ends that could open up. 30,000 in attendance is realistic for top level concerts. If Bangor can draw 16,000 for top named artists, then certainly Portland can with a population draw of close to 4 million (the Portland area at 500 thousand and the top half of Boston and southern NH at 3.5 million). A 90 min drive or less is not much (or an easy and comfy train ride). An indoor venue at 30,000 seats would mean a monopoly for most of New England that would hold 10,000 more during the colder months of the year. And for larger field events inside during the colder months (football and soccer), the only place competitive is Syracuse, NY at 49,000 seats. But no one in the Boston area will go there except to see BC vs Syracuse Univ. So tired of people saying it can't be done. Be creative. "Maine, the way life could be."
 
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The Cross Insurance Arena has 6200 "fixed" seats which include loge, telescopic, club, ADA platforms and premium suites. Total capacity can exceed 8000 depending on the stage configuration when floor seats are added. Rule of thumb for maximum capacities at the CIA for promoters: hockey and ice shows 6200, basketball 7000, end stage concerts 8000, in the round 8200. Aerosmith has claim to the largest attendance in the late 70's with 10,000 for a general admission concert. "The Who" tragedy at Cincinnati's Riverfront Coliseum in 1979 led to the eventual elimination of GA shows along with reduced capacities at many arenas across the country due to safety.
 
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Getting off topic here but it's worth reminding everyone that the Cross Insurance Arena is also a massive money-loser that leaches $3.1 million a year from county taxpayers:
https://cms4files1.revize.com/cumbe...nt Budget Documents/Managers Budget 25-26.pdf

(see page 13 – most of the money it loses comes from its massive debt payments on the ill-fated renovation project, although even without those debt payments, it's still losing $600K a year on operational shortfalls)

This subsidy doesn't take into account the fact that the Cross Insurance money pit also doesn't pay property taxes. The assessed value of the land and building are $33 million; if the arena paid taxes like other properties do, it would owe about $500K a year in property tax.

But because the County Commissioners want to do socialism for minor league hockey teams, the rest of the city's taxpayers end up paying that bill instead.
 
cneal said:
Getting off topic here but it's worth reminding everyone that the Cross Insurance Arena is also a massive money-loser that leaches $3.1 million a year from county taxpayers:
https://cms4files1.revize.com/cumberlandcounty/Departments/Finance_Treasurer/Budget/Current Budget Documents/Managers Budget 25-26.pdf

(see page 13 – most of the money it loses comes from its massive debt payments on the ill-fated renovation project, although even without those debt payments, it's still losing $600K a year on operational shortfalls)

This subsidy doesn't take into account the fact that the Cross Insurance money pit also doesn't pay property taxes. The assessed value of the land and building are $33 million; if the arena paid taxes like other properties do, it would owe about $500K a year in property tax.

But because the County Commissioners want to do socialism for minor league hockey teams, the rest of the city's taxpayers end up paying that bill instead.
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Thanks for this information. I am not surprised. Some of my work involves professional sports teams at about a dozen arenas and stadiums across the country. I know much about how they operate--especially the food and drink options (or now known as "experiences"). CIA is a disaster in this regard (food and drink). Younger customers do not want to sit the entire game or experience in their seats, so most venues have renovated (TD Garden's 3rd level) to make it all a more inclusive and less claustrophobic experience. I went to back to back Taylor Swift concerts last year at one large stadium, and they sold a sangria cocktail offering in a disco-like ball with a straw at two large club level bars with views of the event. They sold 20,000 over the two nights at $40 each. Do the math (800K gross on one drink offering!). In one arena in the mid-west, a long fun bar with an excellent standing area to see the game or event was created on the 3rd level end, and ticket holders from the first and second levels will go up to experience it. It doesn't have to be the nose bleed seats anymore. CIA is doomed unless it spends maybe $10 million to wipe out some seating areas and create new food and drink experiences. It would probably reduce capacity by about 1,000, but profit wise, would benefit. Another thing I would do is spend another million or two (or three!) to vastly improve the acoustics. Now, touring Broadway shows and other music acts, etc. can play with more premium ticket prices and could pull attendance from Boston. MGM is basically a theater configuration, so it can't offer all events related to music. But of course, this won't happen. Maybe one day the wrecking ball will be called in. Probably. I think a substantial renovation would be far too costly ($250 million to start). Best to start fresh. But the aforementioned idea I have could work though you would need to find a BIG sponsor for that (national brand). And add a wide enclosed foot bridge to the vacant parking lots with a now big development (and upscale hotel) and perhaps we could bring back the convention business. You have to keep changing and progressing to remain relevant.
 
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Here in Orono today…thinking about Portland’s CIA debacle. UMaine is spending $80 million on a new 2,500 seat facility. True it will have sports medicine, traning/fitness facility, offices, efc….but also it will feature some donor/up-charge suites overlooking football stadium and basketball court as well. Fans want “luxury” ammenities these days…comfortable/large seats…and good food & drink! Bangor/Orono is literally going to have 4 faclilities (Alfond, Morse, CIC and Maine Savings Amphitheater) that are nicer than anything in Portland…pathetic!
 
cneal said:
Getting off topic here but it's worth reminding everyone that the Cross Insurance Arena is also a massive money-loser that leaches $3.1 million a year from county taxpayers:
https://cms4files1.revize.com/cumberlandcounty/Departments/Finance_Treasurer/Budget/Current Budget Documents/Managers Budget 25-26.pdf

(see page 13 – most of the money it loses comes from its massive debt payments on the ill-fated renovation project, although even without those debt payments, it's still losing $600K a year on operational shortfalls)

This subsidy doesn't take into account the fact that the Cross Insurance money pit also doesn't pay property taxes. The assessed value of the land and building are $33 million; if the arena paid taxes like other properties do, it would owe about $500K a year in property tax.

But because the County Commissioners want to do socialism for minor league hockey teams, the rest of the city's taxpayers end up paying that bill instead.
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It's not socialism. Cut the crap.

It's a poor subsidized business plan. Let it fail if it must. But let's keep the goddamn rhetoric out of this blog.
 
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Curious as to why you think it is unlikely the venue will get built? The applicant is self financing and have a purchase agreement for the lot and what would their end game be by going through the approval process and expense for no apparent reason? Events at the Merrill end by 11 PM and the residents in the apartments on Cumberland Ave have survived the past 27 years since it was renovated.
 
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I guess just based on the track record of major developments getting built as proposed. I would expect this to be heavily opposed by neighbors on noise, parking, etc. I think this venue would draw much larger and different crowds than Merrill, more likely to loiter, smoke, etc. I'm all for the proposal but just seems like a steep hill to climb.
 
Understood and thanks. I did check out the Boston's Roadrunner venue and it is pretty swank and has a capacity of only 190 more than the potential Portland project. Would be a great addition to the city's entertainment scene when you include Merrill, Cross, Aura, Expo, Hadlock, Fitzpatrick and Thompson's Point to the mix which gives a promoter so many options for concerts and sporting events.
 
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Image from the Portland Press Herald and it appears that it may be called the Portland Music Hall which would be great and I do love the overall design and how it is positioned on the lot. The entire Herald Square project if built out as planned will bring much needed vitality to this long neglected stretch of Congress Street. The adjacent proposed lodging usage and the nearby Press Hotel would surely benefit from concerts and shows at this venue and the Merrill Auditorium.
 
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Portlander said:
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Image from the Portland Press Herald and it appears that it may be called the Portland Music Hall which would be great. I love the overall design and how it is positioned on the lot and the entire Herald Square project if built out as planned will bring much need vitality to this long neglected stretch of Congress Street. The adjacent proposed lodging usage and the nearby Press Hotel would surely benefit from concerts and shows at this venue and the Merrill Auditorium.
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So this would be on the corner of Myrtle and Cumberland Streets?
As opposed to some 8-10 story residential building that was originally considered?
I suppose it works and would be a good location. There's still the Top of the Old Port to stick some 30 Story Towers ;)
 
As a member of the local stagehand union and city employee, I welcome the opportunity to work at this venue. The issues we face at Merrill is the dock/lift on the back side of the building on Cumberland Ave. At some load outs, we go to 3am in the morning depending on the event. We are limited to what can go into the building and gets very frustrating to watch a semi trying to back into the dock area holding up traffic and the watching the suspicious characters that live in the area especially the apartment building across the dock. So, I wouldn't worry too much about the neighbors seeing that we also have a needle problem around city hall. I heard that the docks/loading area will be enclosed which will cut down on the noise. The venue will also be acoustic insulated that will cut down on any noise. For example (Aura) was designed that way. This just opens more opportunities for acts that need that extra capacity. Another example is WEX, they have to go outside the state to hold events and conferences. Now it's time for the convention center!!
 
Live Nation would then control ALL of the acts who appear here (they own Ticketmaster). I kind of had to buy 3 tickets to see the Bruins next week at TD Garden, and each seat cost me $250. The total on Ticketmaster (Live Nation) came to $1,007. That's about a 33% fee hike. They are funding this new venue (they are worth billions) and actually behind it, not those two guys. They are a front to make it "feel more Maine."
 
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