Herald Square | 385 Congress St | Portland

[Dr. StrangeHat]

I know during the HPB process for 201 Federal one of the members mentioned that a tall building behind City Hall would diminish it on the sky line. I think this is absurd - and nobody else on the HPB said anything about that - but I'm wondering where the line is. Or if there is even a line about height/proximity to City Hall.

I don't understand how anyone could consider how any building near City Hall could diminish the skyline when the entire backside of City Hall is a giant, gray faceless wall.

 

[markhb]

I think it's the effect of the isolated cupola on the skyline, which itself is likely to be impacted by the Federal St. tower.

That question certainly wasn't considered during discussion of the Public Market Garage, which definitely impacted the view of City Hall as one comes up Park Avenue.

 

[DanielPWM19]

They've added a site narrative and some renderings to the application materials. My first thought is that the proposal has not changed much from what we saw last year, except that the senior living facility has been replaced with another condo building. Other than that the renderings look similar to me to all the 12-14 story condo buildings that have gone up in places like Washington, DC or Boston's seaport district in recent years. Kind of boxy, a fair amount of glass, fairly generic looking. I'm sure the designs will evolve and hopefully improve if this thing progresses.

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::CHANTS:: Build It! Build It! Build It!

 

[Portlander]

Portland Press Herald auxiliary building and tunnel under construction in 1965.

 

[Max]

I sat in on their "public meeting" tonight on Zoom. Not much new was discussed. The architect went over the renderings we've already seen and described how they came up with the massing and design. As for the timeline, they said they plan to bring their MDP before the planning board for a workshop on June 14, have public hearings on it this summer, come back with a Level III site plan for the first phase this fall, and begin construction in 2023.

 

[GIL]

I think this is a great, well-positioned and we-scaled project. My only concern is that the latest designs appear to have eliminated the mid-block “street” connecting Myrtle and Pearl streets, opposite Merrill Auditorium. This offered several advantages.

Now it appears the main vehicle entrance is right on Congress Street. This pushes cars right into a lot of traffic, and likely means “no left turns” out of the site.

I think they should be required to re-introduce the mid-block cross street for the main site access for vehicles.

 

[Max]

My only concern is that the latest designs appear to have eliminated the mid-block “street” connecting Myrtle and Pearl streets, opposite Merrill Auditorium.

I guess that's because they've gone towards this idea of a 2-3 story parking "podium" which all the buildings would ultimately sit upon. The lack of activation on Myrtle and Pearl Streets and lack of public cut-throughs, etc., was brought up on the call. The developers basically said it's about the parking requirements, that this podium thing was a way to avoid building a stand-alone parking facility or making the buildings higher by building more parking under each one separately.

But we'll see, they may get pushback from city staff or the planning board on some of that stuff and the layout could change.

 

[GIL]

The

I guess that's because they've gone towards this idea of a 2-3 story parking "podium" which all the buildings would ultimately sit upon. The lack of activation on Myrtle and Pearl Streets and lack of public cut-throughs, etc., was brought up on the call. The developers basically said it's about the parking requirements, that this podium thing was a way to avoid building a stand-alone parking facility or making the buildings higher by building more parking under each one separately.

But we'll see, they may get pushback from city staff or the planning board on some of that stuff and the layout could change.

The first designs shared had five or six floors of parking wrapped within/under the Cumberland tower, plus a floor or two of parking under the Congress-side towers. That approach effectively provided a good solution without the street-deadening podium, so I hope they will revert to that approach — even if it means a few more floors added to the height of one or two of the towers.

 

[DanielPWM19]

The

The first designs shared had five or six floors of parking wrapped within/under the Cumberland tower, plus a floor or two of parking under the Congress-side towers. That approach effectively provided a good solution without the street-deadening podium, so I hope they will revert to that approach — even if it means a few more floors added to the height of one or two of the towers.

Right! More height please anyway!!!

 

[Portlander]

Prior to construction shot, hopefully!

 

[nomc]

I sat in on their "public meeting" tonight on Zoom. Not much new was discussed. The architect went over the renderings we've already seen and described how they came up with the massing and design. As for the timeline, they said they plan to bring their MDP before the planning board for a workshop on June 14, have public hearings on it this summer, come back with a Level III site plan for the first phase this fall, and begin construction in 2023.

Don't see this on the agenda for tomorrow night, hope it gets presented soon.

 

[Max]

It's on the afternoon workshop agenda.

 

[DanielPWM19]

I think it's important to advocate for traffic into the parking garages or (site itself) to be on Pearl or Cumberland RATHER THAN Congress or Myrtle.

Traffic on Congress will end up severely backed up, especially if there is an event. Myrtle can be busy with either foot traffic or trucks loading equipment for events.

Designing building-front vehicle access is UGLY. Congress & Myrtle access is idiotic.

The Congress façade of this development should be right up to the sidewalk with a very small plaza/square/courtyard in the front middle or Congress/Myrtle corner with an interesting corner architectural design.

 

[GIL]

I think it's important to advocate for traffic into the parking garages or (site itself) to be on Pearl or Cumberland RATHER THAN Congress or Myrtle.

Traffic on Congress will end up severely backed up, especially if there is an event. Myrtle can be busy with either foot traffic or trucks loading equipment for events.

Designing building-front vehicle access is UGLY. Congress & Myrtle access is idiotic.

The Congress façade of this development should be right up to the sidewalk with a very small plaza/square/courtyard in the front middle or Congress/Myrtle corner with an interesting corner architectural design.

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Yes, and this suggestion aligns closely with the original design’s garage-access plan. Hoping that makes a return.

 

[Max]

I thought there were some positive design changes presented to the PB the other night. I grabbed a couple screen shots below, but the primary change has been to basically dump the idea of a public park on Congress and instead they've created a public thoroughfare on the "deck" that would be accessed from stairs on Congress and Myrtle Streets (and I'm assuming an elevator somewhere for accessibility requirements). Presumably there would be seasonal plantings, tables and other amenities that would encourage the public to venture up there. They're also planning to maintain private areas on this deck and somehow they'll delineate the public and private spaces, I guess with gates and shrubs? Could be interesting.

They do still plan to have the hotel valet enter on Congress but the way they described it there should never be a backup onto Congress because they can keep putting cars into the garage. I think getting rid of the Myrtle Street entrance was a good move, and there was some discussion about how to activate that long stretch of street with lights, artwork and potentially commercial space down the road.

They talked about applying for site plans this summer for the hotel and Congress Street condo buildings, and that the public access deck would be contingent on what sequence the buildings are developed. It sounds like the hotel is the first priority and it's possible it could be developed before any condos. Also some discussion of the IZ requirements and Joe Dasco said they want to build the affordable units on-site and they're trying to figure out how to make it work financially. I think there's still a lot to be worked out and if we see this whole site built out in the next five years we'll be lucky.

Congress Street view:

Myrtle Street entrance:

You can see on the right what I think would be the separation between public space on the left and private space on the right (where the tables and chairs are), apparently separated by plantings and a small glass partition.

 

[nomc]

I'm not sure I like this better - the hotel has become (more) bland and uninteresting, the valet entrance looks like something that should be on the back of a building, not a front, street level focal point. Functionally, I like the staircases up to the public deck, much more inviting. I hope the red brick changes to something else, though. Looks odd in this context. Does retail extend the length of the (hotel side) of the public deck? Could be a cool vibe with the right shops in there.

 

[Max]

I honestly hadn't even noticed the changes to the hotel tower, the presentation was so focused on ground level / public access. I'm going to guess that they've been pricing out materials and construction costs and subsequently making some design changes, but we'll see what they come back with in a site plan.

I think restaurant and retail would be the plan on the public side of the deck but I'd have to go back and look through their materials to confirm. I think their aspirational goal is also to have retail wrapping around onto Myrtle and Pearl, and ultimately Cumberland if that side gets built.

 

[DanielPWM19]

Yeah sorry ... I hate it. I think the entrance looks like a crappy tunnel like dropping someone off at the airport. The deck .... maybe if there's restaurants up there? Otherwise I see this as becoming an ugly blight in 20 years. Typical of visionless design for Portland.

 

[Portlander]

Thanks for your continued efforts Max and the screen shots are really appreciated. I agree with nomc that the Congress Street facade of the hotel has taken a step backwards in design and I prefer the visual contrast and use of glass in the original rendering. Overall I'm still pleased with the project and would be delighted if the hotel and adjacent condo building gets built (Phase 1 A/B) and would be fine if the Cumberland Avenue structure never materializes. The developer has the financial ability to pull this off and already has a proven track record in Portland with completing major projects.

 

[nomc]

and that the public access deck would be contingent on what sequence the buildings are developed.

Does this mean there's a possibility it won't ever be developed or just that it wouldn't be built until Phase 1B or Phase 2? If there's a possibility that the whole courtyard becomes a permanent 'airport drop off zone' then I hope the PB holds them to revising the design to something that can be built from the start.