I-90 Interchange Improvement Project & West Station | Allston

[stick n move]

Thats a problem we do have and its noticeable further in the city as well with the fens and the orange line/commuter rail-old rt 95 corridor cutting off cross city traffic. Its weird how everything flows towards downtown. To cross the city in many cases you have to go downtown and back out in the direction you are trying to go. Thats something I really wish there was an easy or easier way to address to ease traffic downtown but theres not many options unfortunately. In situations like this it is disheartening to see it exacerbated where they are literally able to almost start from scratch only to end up with similar results though on a smaller scale.

 

[Charlie_mta]

All this talk about no cars crossing is just nuts. We need greater connectivity in Boston; it's one of the major problems in this city and this is one of the greatest crunch points. There is absolutely no reason to not have multiple crossings on this site, and the fact that a massive street grid is being laid out directly across the tracks from a major artery (Comm) — one that has severely limited access to the N Harvard/Cambridge St corridor —*without so much as a peep from the Globe's editorial page or anyone else is mind boggling.

Yes, Babcock and Malvern are small streets: well, so are Harvard and Linden. The likely net effect would be a reduction in traffic, not an increase, since overall pressure would be eased.

The bus situation on the 66 is just beyond outrageous and no amount of traffic jiggering and signal prioritizing will ever mitigate that nightmare loop thru Union Sq.

The site Harvard plans to build will be, among others things, yet another life sciences hub. There is very little connection between Longwood and here, particularly in the north to south direction. There should be robust connections for ALL modes of transit, with plans built in for a future spur off the Green.

Building a massive development and deliberately not connecting it to a major thoroughfare just because a local college wants to wall itself off is not justified, not in the city's best interest, and makes no sense whatsoever.

Absolutely excellent points. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Harry Mattison]

Upcoming MassDOT meetings for this project

Please attend & speak up! MassDOT needs to hear from you!

November 30, 6pm
Fiorentino Community Center, 123 Antwerp Street, Allston

December 5, 6:30pm
Jackson-Mann Community Center, 500 Cambridge Street, Allston

December 12, 7pm
Brookline Transportation Committee, Town Hall, 333 Washington Street, Brookline

January 3, 6:30pm
Morse School, 40 Granite Street, Cambridge

 

[Rover]

All this talk about no cars crossing is just nuts. We need greater connectivity in Boston; it's one of the major problems in this city and this is one of the greatest crunch points. There is absolutely no reason to not have multiple crossings on this site, and the fact that a massive street grid is being laid out directly across the tracks from a major artery (Comm) — one that has severely limited access to the N Harvard/Cambridge St corridor —*without so much as a peep from the Globe's editorial page or anyone else is mind boggling.

Yes, Babcock and Malvern are small streets: well, so are Harvard and Linden. The likely net effect would be a reduction in traffic, not an increase, since overall pressure would be eased.

The bus situation on the 66 is just beyond outrageous and no amount of traffic jiggering and signal prioritizing will ever mitigate that nightmare loop thru Union Sq.

The site Harvard plans to build will be, among others things, yet another life sciences hub. There is very little connection between Longwood and here, particularly in the north to south direction. There should be robust connections for ALL modes of transit, with plans built in for a future spur off the Green.

Building a massive development and deliberately not connecting it to a major thoroughfare just because a local college wants to wall itself off is not justified, not in the city's best interest, and makes no sense whatsoever.

This makes no sense and is a total misreading of the actual situation. It reminds me of the F-Line Magic Wand Theory, which is all of these projects would work great if we just had a magic wand to pass over them to solve all intractable problems.

Malvern St is useless for a connection. Extremely narrow and a right turn only just beyond the lights where Brighton and Comm Ave meet. It would take forever to merge and you'd have to deal with every idiot who came over looking to turn left only to discover that they couldn't do so. Babcock already has to handle all of the traffic coming out of any BU event (lacrosse field and Nickerson) as well as deliveries to dorms/apartment buildings AND anybody going to the super market who wants to turn right down Comm Ave. There is no other way to go.

So, while BU has its faults, they're right on this one. Yes, if you wanted to reroute a bus, like the 66 I think you could pull that off. Regular vehicular traffic? Fuggedaboudit.

EDIT: One more thing. Malvern and Babcock are ground level streets that lead up to the railroad tracks. West station is going over the tracks, so I don't see how you can fit in a bridge/downgrade from West station and onto those two streets.

 

[tangent]

So to summarize... it seems there is agreement on adding a connection for a bus route.

Since BU backed out of the agreement to help pay for West Station their condition should be eliminated as a planning requirement.

 

[Justin7]

^ But they still own the land, no?

I can't blame BU for not wanting what would likely be quite a bit of added traffic on their campus. I do agree that a bus and more robust pedestrian connection would be great, but it would require either eminent domain or some kind of deal with the school.

 

[Equilibria]

^ But they still own the land, no?

I can't blame BU for not wanting what would likely be quite a bit of added traffic on their campus. I do agree that a bus and more robust pedestrian connection would be great, but it would require either eminent domain or some kind of deal with the school.

I definitely wouldn't consider Babcock St. "BU's campus". It borders the campus. BU owns buildings on the west side, but I believe the only high-traffic facility for students is the brand-new New Balance Field. It's not like this is Harvard Yard.

The logic that applies to people should apply to institutions. If you want a quiet, traffic-free campus, go to Wellesley. If you're going to sell yourself as an urban school, that comes with some noise and traffic. Tough noogies.

Malvern St is useless for a connection. Extremely narrow and a right turn only just beyond the lights where Brighton and Comm Ave meet. It would take forever to merge and you'd have to deal with every idiot who came over looking to turn left only to discover that they couldn't do so. Babcock already has to handle all of the traffic coming out of any BU event (lacrosse field and Nickerson) as well as deliveries to dorms/apartment buildings AND anybody going to the super market who wants to turn right down Comm Ave. There is no other way to go.

Your logic assumes that the streets stay narrow and the intersecting road plan stays as-is. In that case, you're right. Ideally, though, a Malvern connection could involve a full redo at Packard's Corner into a four-way intersection with a wider road continuing down Malvern. Take the parking garage down. Shift the baseball field onto the parking lot and build a structure there to replace the spaces. Buy that last property to change elevation.

Magical thinking? Sure, but they're doing much more large-scale stuff on the other side of the tracks. This is about remaking a neighborhood.

 

[CSTH]

This makes no sense and is a total misreading of the actual situation. It reminds me of the F-Line Magic Wand Theory, which is all of these projects would work great if we just had a magic wand to pass over them to solve all intractable problems.

Malvern St is useless for a connection. Extremely narrow and a right turn only just beyond the lights where Brighton and Comm Ave meet. ..... Regular vehicular traffic? Fuggedaboudit.

EDIT: One more thing. Malvern and Babcock are ground level streets that lead up to the railroad tracks. West station is going over the tracks, so I don't see how you can fit in a bridge/downgrade from West station and onto those two streets.

Magic Wand? We're talking about spending $1B+ to develop an area of vacant land that's the size of the Back Bay. And we're going to re-route a mainline interstate and multiple railroad lines in the same process.

With that level of investment, it's absurd to assume that existing conditions in the malvern / babcock area have to stay that way until the end of time.

How much would it cost to acquire the abutting parcels on malvern and or babcock and build a proper connection over the tracks? I can only guess...

....but is there any possibility that it's greater than $30m? We're talking about what....a dozen well-depreciated wood-frame rental properties, maybe some single-story retail, a parking lot and a softball field?

That's 3% of the total project cost, friends...

....and a fraction of what commonwealth is spending and will spend elsewhere to create or improve comparable cross-town connections. How much is being spent to replace the casey overpass @ forest hills? How much to redesign Morrisey blvd? How much to add a bus lane to Rutherford Ave. & the N. Washington St. Bridge? How much to ground McGrath in Somerville?

...and if you did it right you could tie-in some upzoning and other incentives, and everyone could be a winner. (And maybe pedestrianize harvard st., with a bus-only lane down the middle, but that's a different can of worms...)


Not taking this opportunity to dramatically improve the connectivity of the street, bus, and transit network is absurd and pathetic. (...and, with respect,
talking about the convenience of left hand turns from Malvern St. is missing the point by an order of magnitude)

 

[Justin7]

I definitely wouldn't consider Babcock St. "BU's campus". It borders the campus. BU owns buildings on the west side, but I believe the only high-traffic facility for students is the brand-new New Balance Field. It's not like this is Harvard Yard.

The logic that applies to people should apply to institutions. If you want a quiet, traffic-free campus, go to Wellesley. If you're going to sell yourself as an urban school, that comes with some noise and traffic. Tough noogies.

To be clear, I'm referring specifically to the stretch of Babcock between Ashford and the tracks. I assumed this was BU owned as it is essentially a parking lot, but I could be wrong. That said, what either of us "considers" to be part of the campus is irrelevant. Either they own the land or they don't.

 

[Equilibria]

To be clear, I'm referring specifically to the stretch of Babcock between Ashford and the tracks. I assumed this was BU owned as it is essentially a parking lot, but I could be wrong. That said, what either of us "considers" to be part of the campus is irrelevant. Either they own the land or they don't.

Fair enough. I think BU's traffic concerns related to both Babcock and Malvern all the way to Comm Ave, though.

 

[tangent]

^ But they still own the land, no?

I can't blame BU for not wanting what would likely be quite a bit of added traffic on their campus. I do agree that a bus and more robust pedestrian connection would be great, but it would require either eminent domain or some kind of deal with the school.

What would eminent domain cost? Like a thousand bucks? Looks like at most a taking of a few slivers of land.

Also, there would need to be pedestrian connections at least for West Station so where are those going to go?

 

[CSTH]

What would eminent domain cost? Like a thousand bucks? Looks like at most a taking of a few slivers of land.

Ok so this is bothering me so I actually did the research and math. Assume a much wider alcorn st. going through a demolished Star Market, just west of new balance field, and just east of the field house. Per Boston Assessor site, parcel values are as followws:

1075 Comm. Ave (Star Market): $5.1M
? Ashford St. (Parking Lot, Corner of Ashford & Alcorn): $4.8M
120 Ashford St. (Various 1-story buildings): $10M

That gives you a 100ft. wide corridor from Comm Ave. to the tracks for about $20M in assessed value.

Even if you assume that you pay 3x that in an eminent domain siutation, your'e still talking about ~%5 of project cost.

And yes i recognize that some earth work and street config would be neccessary to clear the tracks, but this give you plenty of room to do that (and if you're doign all this reconfig anyway, you could run the tracks a little further north to give yourself more lead room for an incline).


Again - not providing for this connection is absurd malpractice.

 

[whittle]

EDIT: One more thing. Malvern and Babcock are ground level streets that lead up to the railroad tracks. West station is going over the tracks, so I don't see how you can fit in a bridge/downgrade from West station and onto those two streets.

Correct, you would probably some sort ramp ala Everett St.

I definitely wouldn't consider Babcock St. "BU's campus". It borders the campus. BU owns buildings on the west side, but I believe the only high-traffic facility for students is the brand-new New Balance Field. It's not like this is Harvard Yard.

There is also the Athletic department, ROTC, and BU Bands. Plus Babcock, Malvern, and Pratt are mostly populated by BU students.

Your logic assumes that the streets stay narrow and the intersecting road plan stays as-is. In that case, you're right. Ideally, though, a Malvern connection could involve a full redo at Packard's Corner into a four-way intersection with a wider road continuing down Malvern. Take the parking garage down. Shift the baseball field onto the parking lot and build a structure there to replace the spaces. Buy that last property to change elevation.

Any substantial Packard's corner redesign dies without BU's support.

 

[Justin7]

What would eminent domain cost? Like a thousand bucks? Looks like at most a taking of a few slivers of land.

Also, there would need to be pedestrian connections at least for West Station so where are those going to go?

Ok so this is bothering me so I actually did the research and math. Assume a much wider alcorn st. going through a demolished Star Market, just west of new balance field, and just east of the field house. Per Boston Assessor site, parcel values are as followws:

1075 Comm. Ave (Star Market): $5.1M
? Ashford St. (Parking Lot, Corner of Ashford & Alcorn): $4.8M
120 Ashford St. (Various 1-story buildings): $10M

That gives you a 100ft. wide corridor from Comm Ave. to the tracks for about $20M in assessed value.

Even if you assume that you pay 3x that in an eminent domain siutation, your'e still talking about ~%5 of project cost.

And yes i recognize that some earth work and street config would be neccessary to clear the tracks, but this give you plenty of room to do that (and if you're doign all this reconfig anyway, you could run the tracks a little further north to give yourself more lead room for an incline).


Again - not providing for this connection is absurd malpractice.

Do people really think the issue with eminent domain is the direct financial cost?

 

[whittle]

Ok so this is bothering me so I actually did the research and math. Assume a much wider alcorn st. going through a demolished Star Market, just west of new balance field, and just east of the field house. Per Boston Assessor site, parcel values are as followws:

1075 Comm. Ave (Star Market): $5.1M
? Ashford St. (Parking Lot, Corner of Ashford & Alcorn): $4.8M
120 Ashford St. (Various 1-story buildings): $10M

That gives you a 100ft. wide corridor from Comm Ave. to the tracks for about $20M in assessed value.

Even if you assume that you pay 3x that in an eminent domain siutation, your'e still talking about ~%5 of project cost.

And yes i recognize that some earth work and street config would be neccessary to clear the tracks, but this give you plenty of room to do that (and if you're doign all this reconfig anyway, you could run the tracks a little further north to give yourself more lead room for an incline).


Again - not providing for this connection is absurd malpractice.

The easiest way to kill local support for this project would adding a light on Comm Ave that could make the B-line slower than it already is. (Edit: Getting rid of a grocery store is probably the second easiest way)

 

[Equilibria]

Any substantial Packard's corner redesign dies without BU's support.

Why? They don't own the road, nor are they an abutter. I don't mean that they shouldn't be engaged and that the plan shouldn't avoid hurting their operations, but they are just one stakeholder. They aren't entitled to put an albatross on the rest of the City just because they've camped on a whole neighborhood and think it's theirs.

The easiest way to kill local support for this project would adding a light on Comm Ave that could make the B-line slower than it already is. (Edit: Getting rid of a grocery store is probably the second easiest way)

That's why you go with Malvern and connect it where you can speed things up, not slow them down, and where you don't need to take the Star Market.

 

[CSTH]

Do people really think the issue with eminent domain is the direct financial cost?

You're dealing here only with commercial / institutional entities. Nobody is going to lose their home. Nobody is even going to lose their apartment.

BU is already a party to this project - this would mean re-negotiating the terms of their participation. The only new party to be involved is whoever owns the Star Market building.

Probably some kind of REIT. And if so they literally have a fiduciary responsibility to care about nothing else beyond the direct financial cost.

Realistically, Eminent Domain would just be the big stick that almost certainly wouldn't need to be wielded. Its just a fucking negotiation with institutional property owners.



Red light on the green line?

I'll take that as an endorsement that this is clearly in "Its too good of an idea, it will never happen' territory.

 

[Rover]

These proposals are getting more absurd by the minute. Some examples:

1) We're supposed to obliterate basically the only grocery store in the area, and one directly on the green line.

2) We're not just going to redo the rail yard (a huge undertaking in of itself), we're also going to redo the whole other side of the proposed station as well even though that area isn't a blank slate. I'd also note that the Planned Parenthood building is next door to the supermarket, and good luck getting pols to run them out as well.

3) BU is going to willingly give up the relatively new tennis center they built and the brand new lacrosse field as well. They're also going to be cool with a massive ramp blocking access to the Case Gym in order to get traffic from West Station down to Babcock.

4) Lastly, we're going to completely redo Packards Corner which I will note includes the tracks for the B line.

Look, whoever has the magic wand to get this all done, can I please borrow it for 5 minutes in order to put an addition or two on my house?

The problem is these streets were never planned to be connected as when they were laid out (I believe around 1900) the rail yard was already there. Also I'll point out there are several residential apartment buildings on Malvern that you're also going to have to deal with.

 

[Harry Mattison]

Not sure who is proposing to demo Star Market or BU's New Balance Field...

Anyway, here is MassDOT's analysis
North/South Vehicular Connection (slides 58 - 62)
North/South Transit-Only Connection (slides 63-72)
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Port...ts/AllstonInterchange/presentation_120816.pdf

And here is a look at the trip from the Pike EB to Comm Ave in MassDOT's current design - https://twitter.com/PeoplesPike/status/935563366168432640

 

[Equilibria]

Not sure who is proposing to demo Star Market or BU's New Balance Field...

Anyway, here is MassDOT's analysis
North/South Vehicular Connection (slides 58 - 62)
North/South Transit-Only Connection (slides 63-72)
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Port...ts/AllstonInterchange/presentation_120816.pdf

And here is a look at the trip from the Pike EB to Comm Ave in MassDOT's current design - https://twitter.com/PeoplesPike/status/935563366168432640

MassDOT literally proposed exactly what I did, except with a narrower Malvern. It seems to me that they rejected it because traffic volumes N/S on Malvern would shoot up by 2035. So basically, they won't build something because... too many people will want to use it?

Here's my version (which is basically the same as theirs):

No taking Star Market. No taking NB Field. No interaction with "apartment buildings". Major revisions required to Packard's Corner, as MassDOT noted, but Packard's Corner is a poorly-configured intersection as it is and the MBTA just presented yesterday on the track work they'll need to shut the B Branch down for in coming years, so it's not like the Green Line track is sacrosanct. The only BU property this touches is the baseball field, which can be relocated either on top of the adjacent parking lot or just a few feet to the east to take 1 row of parking spaces.

The connectivity benefits are enormous. MassDOT seems to have rejected the idea because it would be too successful.