Beton Brut
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^^ I see you got that email too...
Legacy Place | Dedham
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Sadly In-N-Out will never expand beyond California, Arizona and Nevada. It easily, in my mind, is the best fast food around. The burgers are great and so aren't the fries. You also get great service to, but then again their workers are paid extremely high so they must be happy.
czsz
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Visited this last night and it's absurd. The layout would otherwise be two perfectly nice (if completely isolated, self-contained) commercial squares, but they chose to dump parking in the middle. The end effect looks something like a real town center mated with Shoppers' World in Framingham. The best part is the al fresco dining some of the restaurants have, overlooking the parking.
Its chief "legacy" will probably be to keep would-be urbanites away from the city by offering them the nicety of a facility where they can have dinner and a show (there's a bowling alley, too), and then shop at the same upscale chains that you could hitherto only find around Boylston St. or Harvard Square. Sad. Oh, and not so great for the real local town center, downtown Dedham, either.
Its chief "legacy" will probably be to keep would-be urbanites away from the city by offering them the nicety of a facility where they can have dinner and a show (there's a bowling alley, too), and then shop at the same upscale chains that you could hitherto only find around Boylston St. or Harvard Square. Sad. Oh, and not so great for the real local town center, downtown Dedham, either.
pelhamhall
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Here is an article in the local section of Boston.com.
My take is that people used to like small downtowns, but now don't. "Boo-hoo" say the small downtowns, "government should ban things that people actually like and instead force them to buy our less-popular products."
I must say however, this is a strong piece of journalism and all sides of the story are well represented.
DEDHAM
Square, Legacy Place at odds
Fiscal coexistence proving elusive
By Michele Morgan Bolton, Globe Correspondent | December 17, 2009
In light of an ongoing metamorphosis in historic Dedham Square, hopes were high this fall that the downtown shopping area would hold its own once the massive Legacy Place lifestyle center sprang up on Route 1.
Town officials anticipated a spillover effect, figuring patrons of the 80 new stores and restaurants, and the 15-screen movie complex a mile down the road would also make a trip to the square to see, taste, and buy what the local shops had to offer.
But that has not happened.
Foot traffic in the square is down, with some merchants reporting losses of 40 to 50 percent of their receipts, since the retail complex opened late this summer.
Nestor Rodriguez, owner of the Court Side Caf?, says Legacy Place is driving his business into the ground.
And the Dedham Community Theatre, a beloved 82-year-old institution considered the economic anchor of downtown, has seen many dark screens over the last several months, after the art-house films it wanted to screen were instead offered by distributors to Legacy Place?s Showcase Cinema de Lux, which was supposed to show the more commercial movies.
Subsequently, said theater owner Paul McMurtry, the elegant old movie house has lost half its business. The slump has arrived a year after the community helped raise $75,000 for a new marquee.
McMurtry, who is also a state representative, said he is frustrated that the multiplex?s owner has not been abiding by an agreement requiring the rivals to stick to their separate genres, and said he wishes National Amusements Inc. would work with his theater instead of against it.
?Once a local, downtown movie theater is gone, it is very hard to get it back,?? he said. ?I am working very hard to be sure we continue to exist.??
In the movie-house business, McMurtry said, staying successful requires having the right movies. For example, recent releases like ?Pirate Radio?? and ?Amelia?? should have gone to his two screens, but they were shown at Legacy Place instead, he said.
A spokeswoman for National Amusements, which has its headquarters in Dedham, did not return a call seeking comment.
Other businesses feel the ripple effect, said Amy Haelson, executive director of the Dedham Square Circle, a nonprofit group focused on promoting and assisting local businesses.
People see Dedham Square as a venue to eat, shop, and see a movie, she said. But if they aren?t coming for the movies, they aren?t coming for anything else, either: ?People will go to where the movie they want to see is.??
Subsequently, businesses like Isabella?s restaurant, next to the theater, are reporting losses, she said, as are boutiques like Maribu and even the Blue Bunny, a popular children?s gift and book store, among others.
This month, holiday stroll and tree-lighting events, plus the dedication of a new antique neighborhood clock last weekend, are bringing hundreds of visitors to the square, and its businesses. But, said Haelson: ?December is quite a different beast. Right now, they are OK. What concerns me is January and February, when it drops again.??
Blue Bunny owner Peter Reynolds, who is also Dedham Square Circle?s president, described the stretch of slow sales as a ?perfect storm,?? linking a quiet summer, an economy in recession, and Legacy Place.
?You wonder how many punches you can take and still be standing. Well? The cool thing is, we?re still standing,?? he said.
Reynolds, who is also an author and illustrator, and his business colleagues recently called a summit to find ways to regain their customers. A series of special events and workshops is bringing ?true-blue?? fans back to the square in droves, he said.
Legacy Place general manager Beth Winbourne said business has exceeded expectations: ?People are shopping, and we?re seeing whole families. We?re also pulling from a larger demographic area than we anticipated.??
However, she said, the complex is also very focused on helping to promote businesses in Dedham Square.
Along those lines, a 30-second advertisement promoting Dedham Square plays before each movie, and four large poster displays are in the lobby at the Cinema de Lux; on the sidewalk in front of Legal Sea Foods, there?s a kiosk with a creative map pointing to the square.
Legacy Place and Dedham Square can coexist, Winbourne said. ?As time goes on, however, the local businesses will have to learn to partner more with the businesses here.??
Dedham?s economic development director, Karen O?Connell, said that while she is pleased for Legacy Place, she wants to ?balance the scales?? for Dedham Square businesses.
?This is a critical time for the square,?? she said. ?It has managed to survive in a competitive environment before, and we feel it can do so again.??
Legacy Place, though, is pedestrian-friendly, with a large parking area as well as a multiple-story garage near its stores, O?Connell said, while the square needs some serious infrastructure work to facilitate traffic flow, walkability, and public safety.
A pending $1.3 million federal public-works grant tied to economic development would fund streetscape and traffic improvements, she said, and the town?s Engineering Department is ready to chip in $250,000 for the plan?s design.
Officials hope to spur mixed-use development and redevelopment in the square near the municipal parking lot that would serve as a gateway to the shopping district. Mitigation funds provided by Legacy Place will pay for a marketing campaign, she added.
Not everyone in the square is suffering.
Wardle?s Pharmacy, which is 100-plus years old, is not only thriving, it recently expanded despite the presence of three CVS stores and a Walgreens in town. Wardle?s opened a satellite location at NewBridge on the Charles, a Hebrew Senior Life housing development off West Street in Dedham.
Wardle?s is thankful, though, for efforts to promote Dedham Square businesses and to address parking, the biggest hurdle, according to store manager Leanne Jasset.
?I?m really hopeful for the square,?? Jasset said. ?I think there?s a commitment from the entire town. Let?s not see a statistic with empty stores and broken windows.??
Haelson agreed: ?We?re not saying we don?t want Legacy Place to be successful. The last thing I want is an empty retail complex down the street. We just want to turn risk into opportunity.??
Michele Morgan Bolton can be e-mailed at mmbolton1@ verizon.net.
My take is that people used to like small downtowns, but now don't. "Boo-hoo" say the small downtowns, "government should ban things that people actually like and instead force them to buy our less-popular products."
I must say however, this is a strong piece of journalism and all sides of the story are well represented.
DEDHAM
Square, Legacy Place at odds
Fiscal coexistence proving elusive
By Michele Morgan Bolton, Globe Correspondent | December 17, 2009
In light of an ongoing metamorphosis in historic Dedham Square, hopes were high this fall that the downtown shopping area would hold its own once the massive Legacy Place lifestyle center sprang up on Route 1.
Town officials anticipated a spillover effect, figuring patrons of the 80 new stores and restaurants, and the 15-screen movie complex a mile down the road would also make a trip to the square to see, taste, and buy what the local shops had to offer.
But that has not happened.
Foot traffic in the square is down, with some merchants reporting losses of 40 to 50 percent of their receipts, since the retail complex opened late this summer.
Nestor Rodriguez, owner of the Court Side Caf?, says Legacy Place is driving his business into the ground.
And the Dedham Community Theatre, a beloved 82-year-old institution considered the economic anchor of downtown, has seen many dark screens over the last several months, after the art-house films it wanted to screen were instead offered by distributors to Legacy Place?s Showcase Cinema de Lux, which was supposed to show the more commercial movies.
Subsequently, said theater owner Paul McMurtry, the elegant old movie house has lost half its business. The slump has arrived a year after the community helped raise $75,000 for a new marquee.
McMurtry, who is also a state representative, said he is frustrated that the multiplex?s owner has not been abiding by an agreement requiring the rivals to stick to their separate genres, and said he wishes National Amusements Inc. would work with his theater instead of against it.
?Once a local, downtown movie theater is gone, it is very hard to get it back,?? he said. ?I am working very hard to be sure we continue to exist.??
In the movie-house business, McMurtry said, staying successful requires having the right movies. For example, recent releases like ?Pirate Radio?? and ?Amelia?? should have gone to his two screens, but they were shown at Legacy Place instead, he said.
A spokeswoman for National Amusements, which has its headquarters in Dedham, did not return a call seeking comment.
Other businesses feel the ripple effect, said Amy Haelson, executive director of the Dedham Square Circle, a nonprofit group focused on promoting and assisting local businesses.
People see Dedham Square as a venue to eat, shop, and see a movie, she said. But if they aren?t coming for the movies, they aren?t coming for anything else, either: ?People will go to where the movie they want to see is.??
Subsequently, businesses like Isabella?s restaurant, next to the theater, are reporting losses, she said, as are boutiques like Maribu and even the Blue Bunny, a popular children?s gift and book store, among others.
This month, holiday stroll and tree-lighting events, plus the dedication of a new antique neighborhood clock last weekend, are bringing hundreds of visitors to the square, and its businesses. But, said Haelson: ?December is quite a different beast. Right now, they are OK. What concerns me is January and February, when it drops again.??
Blue Bunny owner Peter Reynolds, who is also Dedham Square Circle?s president, described the stretch of slow sales as a ?perfect storm,?? linking a quiet summer, an economy in recession, and Legacy Place.
?You wonder how many punches you can take and still be standing. Well? The cool thing is, we?re still standing,?? he said.
Reynolds, who is also an author and illustrator, and his business colleagues recently called a summit to find ways to regain their customers. A series of special events and workshops is bringing ?true-blue?? fans back to the square in droves, he said.
Legacy Place general manager Beth Winbourne said business has exceeded expectations: ?People are shopping, and we?re seeing whole families. We?re also pulling from a larger demographic area than we anticipated.??
However, she said, the complex is also very focused on helping to promote businesses in Dedham Square.
Along those lines, a 30-second advertisement promoting Dedham Square plays before each movie, and four large poster displays are in the lobby at the Cinema de Lux; on the sidewalk in front of Legal Sea Foods, there?s a kiosk with a creative map pointing to the square.
Legacy Place and Dedham Square can coexist, Winbourne said. ?As time goes on, however, the local businesses will have to learn to partner more with the businesses here.??
Dedham?s economic development director, Karen O?Connell, said that while she is pleased for Legacy Place, she wants to ?balance the scales?? for Dedham Square businesses.
?This is a critical time for the square,?? she said. ?It has managed to survive in a competitive environment before, and we feel it can do so again.??
Legacy Place, though, is pedestrian-friendly, with a large parking area as well as a multiple-story garage near its stores, O?Connell said, while the square needs some serious infrastructure work to facilitate traffic flow, walkability, and public safety.
A pending $1.3 million federal public-works grant tied to economic development would fund streetscape and traffic improvements, she said, and the town?s Engineering Department is ready to chip in $250,000 for the plan?s design.
Officials hope to spur mixed-use development and redevelopment in the square near the municipal parking lot that would serve as a gateway to the shopping district. Mitigation funds provided by Legacy Place will pay for a marketing campaign, she added.
Not everyone in the square is suffering.
Wardle?s Pharmacy, which is 100-plus years old, is not only thriving, it recently expanded despite the presence of three CVS stores and a Walgreens in town. Wardle?s opened a satellite location at NewBridge on the Charles, a Hebrew Senior Life housing development off West Street in Dedham.
Wardle?s is thankful, though, for efforts to promote Dedham Square businesses and to address parking, the biggest hurdle, according to store manager Leanne Jasset.
?I?m really hopeful for the square,?? Jasset said. ?I think there?s a commitment from the entire town. Let?s not see a statistic with empty stores and broken windows.??
Haelson agreed: ?We?re not saying we don?t want Legacy Place to be successful. The last thing I want is an empty retail complex down the street. We just want to turn risk into opportunity.??
Michele Morgan Bolton can be e-mailed at mmbolton1@ verizon.net.
palindrome
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I enjoyed reading that. Thanks for posting.
Perhaps if there was residential component in the downtown area then it would be sustainable. I don't understand how a downtown can be sustainable when residents have to drive there, especially when said downtown has to compete against an auto-centric shopping center.
The stores also are not much of a draw either. I would much prefer to see a movie at the new theater to be honest.
Perhaps if there was residential component in the downtown area then it would be sustainable. I don't understand how a downtown can be sustainable when residents have to drive there, especially when said downtown has to compete against an auto-centric shopping center.
The stores also are not much of a draw either. I would much prefer to see a movie at the new theater to be honest.
blade_bltz
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I'd like an explanation of this one.
If I'm going to see an indie flick, I'd much rather see it at an 82 year old theater than any "cinema de lux"
But as for the fate of Dedham Center in general, I'm disappointed but hardly shocked. The shitty Rt 1 strip malls have always dominated the area, even before Legacy Place decided to obliterate any incentive for 128-dwellers to head into Boston aside from Sox games. Now if Dedham House of Pizza (DHOP all day) gets pushed out of business, this will be a major problem. Townies, I'm counting on you...
Anytime you build something with free (read: subsidized) parking, as in Legacy Place, you are immediately putting all the mom-and-pop stores in town centers at a disadvantage. But making parking in Dedham Square free (I assume it is not free now) would not help either because there is only a limited supply of it. That supply would quickly fill up and customers would avoid the Square because there is "no place to park". We're never going to meet our goals of reducing car-dependence and creating walkable neighborhoods if we keep letting (and requiring!) developers to build plentiful free parking along busy car-centric streets.
czsz
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There's a giant ass free parking lot for Dedham Center next to Route 1. The town is competing against the novelty factor of this new mall. In the long term Dedham Center's survival is more guaranteed, though - Legacy Place is both aesthetically bankrupt and cold as fuck in winter. Once people realize they could shop in a real town center (where the cafe tables would face actual streets and not parking lots, if the restaurants in Dedham Center, which are actually doing quite well, had the foresight to install them) or a climate-controlled mall, Legacy Place will quickly lose its luster.
HenryAlan
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I don't really see Legacy Place as the problem for Dedham Square, though the square does have a problem. Most people who are looking for what the square offers, won't go there if they don't live nearby and not enough people live nearby. Too much of Dedham is car focused and there aren't good ways for people to naturally gravitate toward the square. Beyond Dedham, why would somebody in Roslindale or West Roxbury go to Dedham Square when they have an assortment of shops in restaurants much closer to home? Likewise, why wouldn't somebody in Norwood choose Norwood Center for their neighborhood downtown experience?
I don't live in Dedham, but have been to Legacy Place a few times, always for the sake of something that my neighborhood doesn't offer (like the LL Bean and the movie theater). That doesn't mean I don't value my neighborhood merchants -- I do. And because I value them, I won't ever go to Dedham Square because it does not offer a distinctly different experience. But I will continue to go to Legacy Place, which does.
I don't live in Dedham, but have been to Legacy Place a few times, always for the sake of something that my neighborhood doesn't offer (like the LL Bean and the movie theater). That doesn't mean I don't value my neighborhood merchants -- I do. And because I value them, I won't ever go to Dedham Square because it does not offer a distinctly different experience. But I will continue to go to Legacy Place, which does.
Shepard
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I've driven from Boston down to the aptly-named "automile" many times for free oil changes (worth the gas money). I've been through the drive-through Starbucks and Dunkins along the way. I've seen all the strip malls, the billboards, the weird bars with parking lots and the motels.
I didn't know Dedham Square was an actual retail destination right off of Route 1 until rather recently when I was at the Norfolk County Registry of Deeds.
Strange, eh?
I didn't know Dedham Square was an actual retail destination right off of Route 1 until rather recently when I was at the Norfolk County Registry of Deeds.
Strange, eh?
I was at Legacy Place about a week ago...it is clearly trying to replicate a semblance of urbanity in the suburbs. I had a drink at Aquitaine and it was packed by droves of empty nesters who will pay good money for the "urban restaurant experience." That they can avoid driving in town and searching for parking is a trade off most seemed glad to make.
Beton Brut
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"Give me convenience or give me death!"
palindrome
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If legacy place is killing dedham center, what are they going to do when Westwood station opens up right down the road?
armpitsOFmight
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Looks like the Legacy is copying the latest development trends in South Florida. I now present to you Palm Beach's Downtown at the Gardens (which finished about 5 years ago). None of these pics are mine.
Oh, and then there's Legacy Place across the Street (PGA BLVD)
Heck, even Pembroke Pines (a suburb in Broward county) created a place called "The Shops at Pembroke Gardens."
I don't like these fake urban centers.
Oh, and then there's Legacy Place across the Street (PGA BLVD)
Heck, even Pembroke Pines (a suburb in Broward county) created a place called "The Shops at Pembroke Gardens."
I don't like these fake urban centers.
AmericanFolkLegend
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"Bagle Boyz" A Jewish R&B group?
bostonbred
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Old Unkle take me to aquitaine und the Aquitaine Biss for the wino tasting and a Dinner twice. NOT nowing it in the Dedham places. BUT uncle say south end place Good like the Paris places and Bise one in Newton having sburpin cougar peeples and ex-husband monies. He point at leperd spot dress ladies and say "Listen up young mans.. BOOTY FADES MONY dont"
kennedy
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Hooray for "lifestyle centers." They're not just South Florida, they're everywhere. I think they're just more popular in the southern climates where an outdoor mall actually makes sense. They very well could have had their start in those Floridian resort communities, though.
armpits, thanks for those photos. Not even a hint of trying to roast, flame, or otherwise troll.
armpits, thanks for those photos. Not even a hint of trying to roast, flame, or otherwise troll.
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<3 u
palindrome
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At least South Florida has the weather for it.