Liberty Mutual Tower | 157 Berkeley Street | Back Bay

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

I'm just puzzled as to why they're building the two story addition at all? I know, NIMBYs and all, but wouldn't it make more sense to somehow tack this space onto the main building?
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

czsz said:
I'm just puzzled as to why they're building the two story addition at all? I know, NIMBYs and all, but wouldn't it make more sense to somehow tack this space onto the main building?
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From the plans it looks like they are expanding their conference space.


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Looking at it again I don't really understand the hate for this thing. It is keeping jobs in Boston, keeping a local company, not some soulless global corporation (a soulless local company! j/k). The design isn't fantastic but at least it isn't a stumpy glass box. Heck, it's pretty contextual with the other insurance buildings nearby. If they use real limestone it will look decent. I'm more pissed that the Columbus Center went down in flames than that the city is throwing a few dollars towards this to fast track it.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Pretty much agree with Van. It's not offensive enough to get worked up about, and filling in the parking lot with a two story building sounds great to me. It'll further beef up the skyline and streetwall in an area that could use it, even if the street might not exactly be the most exciting thing in the world.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

vanshnookenraggen said:
Looking at it again I don't really understand the hate for this thing. It is keeping jobs in Boston, keeping a local company, not some soulless global corporation (a soulless local company! j/k). The design isn't fantastic but at least it isn't a stumpy glass box. Heck, it's pretty contextual with the other insurance buildings nearby. If they use real limestone it will look decent.
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No, it's not a stumpy glass box, it's a stumpy limestone box.

My biggest gripe, though, is that this building as proposed will render this block a wasteland after office hours and weekends. The perimiter of the building at the street is lined with dead lobby space, an office cafeteria, loading areas and parking garage entrances. Why are they not including any retail spaces?

Also, why arent they just expanding their existing building? It's flanked by two surface lots with almost as much area as the site of this new proposal. Wouldnt it be more desirable to consolidate the whole company rather than having them run back and forth between neighboring buildings. This "campus" configuration seems forced and rather rinky-dink. I wont even go into the two-story addition and gerbil tube, which are just blatantly dopey.

My criticisms of this project don't stem from anti-corporate sentiments, NIMBYism or anything like that. Believe me, I think it's great they're expanding here, and if this was a good proposal I'd be all for it. This ain't a good proposal.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

My biggest gripe, though, is that this building as proposed will render this block a wasteland after office hours and weekends. The perimiter of the building at the street is lined with dead lobby space, an office cafeteria, loading areas and parking garage entrances. Why are they not including any retail spaces?
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Are you sure there's no retail? If you're right that will be a BRUTALLY long block with nothing going on. The x-section that was posted shows a "Cafeteria" on the second floor and a "Cafe" on the first. I assume (hope) the cafe is some kind of restaurant and not just a lobby Starbucks.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

My biggest gripe, though, is that this building as proposed will render this block a wasteland after office hours and weekends. The perimiter of the building at the street is lined with dead lobby space, an office cafeteria, loading areas and parking garage entrances. Why are they not including any retail spaces?
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But isn't that area already like that? It's asking a lot of retailers to build stores in places where there isn't a lot of foot traffic. I'm not saying the area can't change but putting it all on one building seems like asking much.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

briv said:
Why are they not including any retail spaces?
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Given how their current building interacts with the street I'd imagine the thought never crossed their mind. With the big exception of the Newbry (New England Life), actuaries here occupy buildings with just about zero retail. Not that I condone this, I'm just pointing out a pattern.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

vanshnookenraggen said:
It's asking a lot of retailers to build stores in places where there isn't a lot of foot traffic.
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There's TONS of foot traffic in this area from 9-9, but everyone just walks the couple of short blocks north to Boylston-Newbury since that's where everything is. However this immediate area could easily sustain some 9-5 retail if not more.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

But isn't that area already like that? It's asking a lot of retailers to build stores in places where there isn't a lot of foot traffic
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That Viga restaurant (corner of Stuart and Columbus) gets absolutely mobbed in the morning and around lunchtime. Lines out the door from 7:30 - 9:00 and again 11:30 - 1:30. Flash's seems to do fine. And there are viable restaurants across the street (Da Vinci's, Smith & Wollinsky's, Laurel).
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

The other block, however, doesn't get too much activity. Between Berkeley & Clarendon it's dead most of the day but this is due to its make-up - Club Cafe (busy late nights) and Mitchell Gold/Bob Williams furnishings store. Mistral and Laurel restaurants are busy at night but not much walk-ins. I'm a bit skeptical of its success as retail but yeah, I wouldn't want a dead wall.
 
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Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

AmericanFolkLegend said:
That Viga restaurant (corner of Stuart and Columbus) gets absolutely mobbed in the morning and around lunchtime. Lines out the door from 7:30 - 9:00 and again 11:30 - 1:30. Flash's seems to do fine. And there are viable restaurants across the street (Da Vinci's, Smith & Wollinsky's, Laurel).
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The pizza slices at Viga are BIG!

Speaking of slices, I suppose someone might build up something tall on the pie slice where it meets Park Square. But until then, I wish the L.M. building looked cooler when seen from Park Square, with some dramatic lighting or spire ornament or something. (Ok. I know this isn't Times Square!)
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

^ Sad thing is the Viga building and its billboard (the one always hawking iPods) make for a more dramatic flatiron than this proposal ever will.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

kz1000ps said:
Given how their current building interacts with the street I'd imagine the thought never crossed their mind. With the big exception of the Newbry (New England Life), actuaries here occupy buildings with just about zero retail. Not that I condone this, I'm just pointing out a pattern.
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I agree. The "Insurance District" is full of handsome, pre-war, utterly introverted limestone buildings. The whole area is pretty much a wasteland, but one with great potential. Shouldn't any new construction attempt to better the area/remedy it's shortcomings? Especially if it's so easy to do so? This building should be lined with retail/restaurant space. What's so hard about that?

I can begrudgingly accept yet another banal Boston Stump, but a newly developed dead block here will doom this area for years.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

That stretch of Columbus and Berkeley has a few problems retail wise because it is the midpoint between Boylston/Newbury on one end and Tremont on the other. That's a lot of retail and food just a few blocks in either direction. At the same time, there are not enough residential buildings to sustain much in the way of after hours shopping. There are buildings currently on that stretch that could provide street level retail but instead house lite industry. If this proposal were to incorporate store fronts, I suspect the result would be empty store fronts, something worse than bulky lime stone walls.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

^Oh, I don't know -- there are currently quite a few businesses within a one block radius of this location: the furniture store across the street, Club Cafe, the restaurant next door, Flashes up the street, Bay Village is right there. Built it and they will come. Don't built it, they will stay away.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

HenryAlan said:
... At the same time, there are not enough residential buildings to sustain much in the way of after hours shopping. There are buildings currently on that stretch that could provide street level retail but instead house lite industry. If this proposal were to incorporate store fronts, I suspect the result would be empty store fronts, something worse than bulky lime stone walls.
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I'm not sure that I entirely agree with this. The commercial/office spine between Boylston and Columbus is a pretty narrow strip flanked by the Back Bay to the north and the South End to the south. ...seems like there's quite a bit of residential to support retail in this project...those who can afford to live in these two neighborhoods certainly could afford to shop there.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Well, we all know what the main problem is: a recent proposal to build virtually an entire new neighborhood atop the Mass Turnpike died.

With that kind of density on the other side of Columbus you'd have had no problem getting retail to be successful.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

I was at the shaws in Fenway last night, by the way the bathroom in that place is quite an adventure to get to, and when in line at the check out I saw a Boston Courant. It had an article about how the NABB wanted changes to the proposal. They were mainly minor and most here would like what they recomended. They asked for ground floor retail instead of a cafe. And a couple of other things. I tried to find the Courant online and apparently they don't have a website.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

^Thanks for the reminder GW. I read the article too and meant to post. The changes requested (and LM seemed open to) were:
*Ground floor retail.
*An entrance/exit along Columbus Ave (yes, apparently the whole Columbus side was supposed to be one long wall).
*Something to soften up the St James side (near the gerbil tube). Maybe some landscaping?
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Wow, this is unprecedented, community requested changes that actually improve the project!
 
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