Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

[stellarfun]

Massport does a terrible job of reporting passenger statistics. Do you notice how there is not a single passenger flying to Asia from Logan? I know for a fact over 60,000 people a year fly between Boston and Beijing and Shanghai, that doesn't even include Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya, Seoul, Taipei, Singapore, etc. Also look at South America, only a mere 44,000 pax, that's definitely wrong.

Boston has no trouble making trans-Atlantic ops profitable for the airlines flying them, if not, the airlines would either pull the routes, cut them down to weekly frequencies instead of daily, or cut capacity and send higher density aircraft. (aircraft with less premium, business and first, seating and more coach seats)

Another telling sign of how well the Boston-Europe market is, is the fact that Logan has 2 daylight flights to London where only NYC has more daylight flights to London.

Take you calculation that each flight from Logan to Europe and from Europe to Logan has 215 pax and then look at Alitalia for example. They run daily 767-300ER service on the Boston-Milan run (which is switching over to daily year round Boston-Rome service and the elimination of the seasonal Boston-Rome service) and that plane has a total capacity of 186 passengers. That flight is completely full under the 215 average. Or look at Swiss, they send a daily 330-200 flight that carries 230 passengers between a 2 class layout (during the summer season, they send a 3 class 343-300 3 times per week and a 330-200 the other 4 days). Applying the average 215 passengers, the flight is very full, 93% full.

A.) There are no non-stop flights between Logan and Asia, so passengers are not counted as to final destination, only the intermediate domestic enroute destination, e.g., SFO. MSP.

B.) The Logan numbers are for Central/South America, not just South America. I believe there were direct flights between Logan and Central America in 2006, e.g., Aeromexico?

C.) I looked at the seating chart for Alitalia 767 departing BOS on Jan 17. The seating charts shows 25 seats in business, and 217 in economy. Thats 242 seats, not 186.

D.) Do you know anything about averages? I did not say that EVERY flight to/from Logan had 215 passengers; I said that the average number of passengers per flight was 215; some flights perhaps had 150, others 300.

Yes, a lot of people travel between Boston and Europe. Yes, many Boston-Europe routes are profitable. But Boston has also had its share of routes that were discontinued. And the last airline that attempted to use Boston as a trans-Atlantic hub was Pan Am, which would nightly fly to 6 or 7 destinations in Europe from Boston.

 

[mass88]

Thank you for supporting my claims about Massport and the numbers they post. Massport does a poor job of counting international pax from Boston. It doesn't matter if they connect via Chiacgo or Los Angeles, they are still departing Logan heading for an international city, in this case Asia.

Yes AeroMexico offered Mexico City and Cancun flights. But it still doesn't tell the whole picture. Also Taca used to fly Boston-San Salvador.

All I am saying is that a person looking to get the number of people flying between Boston and Asia would not be able to find out those numbers due to Massport not including them. Massport also does not include numbers for those connecting via JFK, Newark, etc. to Europe which quite a few people do.

Of course I understand averages. My point was that on average, flights to Europe are pretty damn full. Of course there are days when a flight may only have 160 or have over 300. Ever notice how airlines beef up capacity and frequency during the summer?

I don't think I, or anyone else was saying that Logan should be a European gateway. Although Delta could be very successful if they were to start 757-200 service to MAN, MXP, BRU, SNN. You can look at a whole list of cities, even hubs, that have had service cut. Boston has had constant service to the large European hubs and cities for quite some time.

I don't understand why you are so baffled by the fact that Boston has solid European flight offerings. Boston is an important business city, large foreign population, large foreign student population, a wealthy population and large O&D which is what makes long haul flights more profitable. Also consider this, Logan has a large catchment area to pull from for European flights. People from Rhode Island, southern NH, southern ME and central Mass all use Logan. I would say that 2 hours in any direction from Logan is it's catchment area for European flights.

Also I believe Northwest was the last airline to have a large scale European network out of Boston, not Pan Am.

Out of curiosity, how many times have you flown to Europe?

In case you did not know, Boston, not only to Europe, but domestically is one of the largest O&D markets.

 

[stellarfun]

See bold:

I don't understand why you are so baffled by the fact that Boston has solid European flight offerings.

I am not baffled. This thread got off on a tangent because I opined that Dulles had more US-European traffic than did Logan.

Also I believe Northwest was the last airline to have a large scale European network out of Boston, not Pan Am.

NW never came close to what Pan Am offered. Pan Am, to my recollection, did LHR, CDG, AMS, FRA, FCO, LIS, and perhaps one other destination every night during the summer season.

Out of curiosity, how many times have you flown to Europe?

I don't count. I've probably flown about 15 different carriers across the pond, and maybe 7 or 8 different types of aircraft.

 

[ChunkyMonkey]

Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 1:30 PM EST
Logan woos international airlines
Boston Business Journal

The Massachusetts Port Authority said Thursday it is implementing a new incentive package to lure international airline service to the Hub.

The financial incentives will include landing fee credits and joint advertising opportunities to the international airlines.

The measure allows Boston Logan International Airport to compete more aggressively for international airline service, the organization said a news release.

Massport's board adopted the International Air Service Incentive Program at its February meeting. It will apply to new nonstop international service to destinations in Asia, including China and India, Central America, South America, Africa, the Middle East, and Mexico City.

"Today's action places us on equal footing with airports offering similar enticements and will allow us to attract new service to those international destinations most sought after by our customers," said Massport's CEO and Executive Director Thomas J. Kinton Jr., in a statement.

Nonstop flights to Asia are often cited as the number one service target among the Boston-area's business, academic and tourism communities, according to a Massport release.

Article URL:
http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2008/02/11/daily53.html?jst=b_ln_hl

 

[kmp1284]

I just read on airliners.net that Air One has applied to fly Boston-Milan starting this summer. They will codeshare with USAirways on flights to Phoenix, Philadelphia and National in DC. As far as I know this route had been covered by Alitalia since the 1970's however with Alitalia restructuring its hub operations their Boston flight is being moved to Rome year round.

 

[czsz]

Air One? Why do so many of the new European airlines have such lame names?

According to Wikipedia, it used to be called Aliadriatica...now that's a name.

 

[kmp1284]

And the US airlines are better? Do you ever stop whining?

 

[czsz]

^ Sometimes, I know how Hillary feels.

 

[ChunkyMonkey]

I just read on airliners.net that Air One has applied to fly Boston-Milan starting this summer. They will codeshare with USAirways on flights to Phoenix, Philadelphia and National in DC. As far as I know this route had been covered by Alitalia since the 1970's however with Alitalia restructuring its hub operations their Boston flight is being moved to Rome year round.

Looks like this is actually happening. Boston-Milan begins June 14. Hopefully this survives as well as Alitalia to Rome. International expansion in Boston will most certainly be from international carriers and not American ones.

http://www.flyairone.com/en/OrganizzaViaggio/News.aspx

 

[mass88]

This will be great for Boston to get back non-stop service to Milan. This flight should survive and do very well from Mid April - Late October and like all U.S. Italy flights, sans New York, not do as well during November-Early March. At 5 weekly flights, this route should be a keeping and the USAirways codeshare will help fill some seats.

Aside from hub cities, no U.S. carriers are expanding internationally from focus cities. Boston still has great service to Europe and is the 4th largest market (in terms of passenger numbers) to Europe.

World is BMI is looking at starting Boston-Manchester sometime in 2009.

 

[czsz]

I've heard bad things about the Alitalia flight to Rome...has anyone experienced it? I need to get from here to Egypt next month and it looks like the best option in terms of money and timing.

 

[atlantaden]

^^^^^^^^

ahhhhhhh, Alitalia...Always Late In Takeoff, Aways Late In Arrival! LOL Timing and money are pretty important factors....I'd go with it. The worst transatlantic flight I've ever experienced was on a Delta flight from Atlanta to Paris...a packed, shabby, 767.. and surprisingly, we had to pay for our drinks which are usually free on any transatlantic flight. Flew Alitalia twice (in Europe), ok but unmemorable flights which can be a very good thing!

Enjoy your trip!!

 

[jass]

Use your credit card, so if they go under youll get refunded

 

[mass88]

You should be good, the Italian government just approved an emergency loan that will keep them running for the 6 months of so.

 

[Bos77]

Boston/China update

CAAC Application: Hainan Air Beijing - Boston
Hainan Airlines today submitted application to CAAC for operating daily Beijing - Boston service as early as October 2008.

 

[czsz]

New Beijing airport by Sir Norman Foster:

 

[itchy]

Bit of a forbidding gateway to the Evil (Middle-Class-Hollowing Trade and Deficit-Inducing) Empire...

 

[BarbaricManchurian]

^^Please don't bash China please, as its offensive to many people to this forum (guess who...). And BTW, Beijing Capital International Airport Terminal 3 is one of the most stunning terminals ever created, it's the biggest building ever built, and is an extremely beautiful and functional blend of ancient and modern architecture.

Here's some photos if you want to see real pictures of it, the renders above don't give it justice:

 

[atlantaden]

An absolutely amazing structure...I'm sure breathtaking in person! Thanks for the photo's. Being used to somewhat smaller terminals and structures I think I would be overwhelmed on arrival from a overseas flight.

 

[itchy]

Not trying to China-bash at all, but the country's trade policies (subsidizing plant construction and energy costs for exporters, illegal tax rebates for exporters, keeping the yuan/renminbi artificially low, and outright protectionism/ allowing very few exports or services -- banks, law firms, insurers, etc. -- access to the market) are killing the US middle class. That airport was built on the the transfer of well-paying Ohio jobs whose laid-off employees are now making a pittance as a part-time cashier at the Dollar Store. It's a problem the US will have to address, rather than making a scapegoat of free trade with politically unpopular Mexico -- whether or not 1/3 of US debt is held by the Chinese gov't! (In the same vein, I don't consider it America-bashing to say George Bush is a disastrous buffoon whose policies also need to be seriously addressed ASAP!)