Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

subsidizing plant construction and energy costs for exporters

Every country does that, it's called economic stimulus, and China has done less than other countries (more free-market then many so-called capitalist countries).

illegal tax rebates for exporters

Illegal? I don't think the Chinese GOVERNMENT issuing tax rebates is illegal, plus, its economic stimuli, China has been reducing this to low-wage, high pollution industry (textiles, chemical, etc...) and shifting the rebates to higher-wage high-tech exports.


keeping the yuan/renminbi artificially low

Totally untrue, the yuan has risen 18% since it was unpegged in 2005 (went up from 8.29 yuan/$ to 6.98 right now, and the pace is accelerating). Many low-wage factories have went bankrupt because of this.

and outright protectionism/ allowing very few exports or services -- banks, law firms, insurers, etc. -- access to the market

Not true either. China has opened up at record speed, and do we see European insurers here? There are many foreign banks in China, and there's very low need for lawyers in China as there's little crime and China has already allowed foreign lawyers to form joint ventures in China, and is encouraging more people to become lawyers..

are killing the US middle class

Any evidence that the US middle class is getting "killed"? It may be harder to become middle class now, but that's because your competing with a huge pool of smart, talented people all around the globe. The key is hard work, even more than before. The difference is just that you can't become middle class straight out of high school by getting a good referral from a friend, you actually have to work now (and you can become rich straight out of high school, be an entrepreneur-though there's high risk)

That airport was built on the the transfer of well-paying Ohio jobs whose laid-off employees are now making a pittance as a part-time cashier at the Dollar Store.

Totally not true again, exports only make up about 1.5% of China's 11.5% GDP growth, most is due to rise in domestic consumption and investment. In fact, imports are rising much faster than exports, closing China's trade surplus and exports won't even make up any of China's GDP growth soon.

It's a problem the US will have to address, rather than making a scapegoat of free trade with politically unpopular Mexico -- whether or not 1/3 of US debt is held by the Chinese gov't! (In the same vein, I don't consider it America-bashing to say George Bush is a disastrous buffoon whose policies also need to be seriously addressed ASAP!)

There's a problem to address, bad education and protectionism. If people think they can get a good job straight out of 12 years of crappy public schools, they are deluding themselves. With better education, US workers can compete better in the global marketplace. There's no turning back now, we live in a global society and that means competing with ALL other workers on the globe. The best will prosper, the lazy will suffer. It's all in your hands, which is what's so liberating about free trade and globalization. Free trade has helped the US extremely, and if you support free trade with Mexico (which BTW has tax rebates for exporters, incentives for building factories, etc... probably even more than China proportionally), you better support it with even more capitalist China. Having one-third of US debt being held by the Chinese gov't is irrelevant, but I do agree that the US government debt needs to be drastically reduced or our GDP growth will be very slow for the next few decades.
 
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Barb, I don't want to drag this out too much but I'd like to make a few points. I agree with you that the US public education needs to improve and that the US needs to continue to embrace free trade. I think you and I are in agreement about the fundamental things! It's just that in dealings I have in my own job (as a business consultant) I see the effects of trade policies that are rather open and rules-based on the US's part and rather opaque and one-sided on China's part. In my opinion, the fact that the US government (for reasons I don't get; maybe for fear of seeing China drop its dollar reserves?) does nothing to rectify this situation will harm the US economy and this country's middle class in the long term. I have nothing against China, but my own interests lie in seeing my own city, state and county do well by playing by the rules rather than seeing any other place, be it China, Chad, Chile or the Cinqueterre, prosper on the back of unfair policies and unfree trade.

Too much of my job is telling companies how they need to move production to low-cost areas before companies (increasingly ones that the Chinese government is putting together by prodding compliant businessmen to action) kill them with prices that, for many products, are often as much as 40% below world market prices.

Those prices are lower for a number of reasons: lower capital costs thanks to friendly state-run banks and subsidies, subsidized energy, VAT rebates to encourage exporters, an artificially low currency, and one-sided protectionism. Many of those policies are illegal within the WTO on their own; together, they equal dumping, which is WTO-illegal as well.

CAPITAL COSTS: No other country that I know of is using state-bank money to build in the next ~5 years an amount of capacity equal to nearly 100% in areas from cardboard packaging to fiberglass to plastics. The effect of those policies will be to cause global oversupply that will lead to the closure of plants elsewhere in the world.

ENERGY COSTS: Like Russia and some Middle Eastern states, China subsidizes oil to the point where the state-run oil companies complain bitterly about not being profitable. In China, the goal is to encourage ever more factories with cheap energy.

VAT REBATES: The VAT taxes that Beijing gives to exporters violate the rules of the WTO, which granted China entry in 1999 after pressure from Bill Clinton. Why should abiding WTO law be important? It was entry into that organization that opened up world markets to Chinese goods in the first place, and at this point the rules are being observed unevenly with China benefiting at others' expense.

CURRENCY: The yuan is still pegged to the dollar, not ruled by market forces. It is still kept artificially low, much lower than the market would have it -- especially against the euro -- even if it has appreciated slowly against the dollar. Look at what any other currency has done against the dollar since 2002 for comparison's sake.

PROTECTIONISM: I know the most about this in terms of services and media, two of the US's biggest exports. Regarding (financial) services, China allowed two foreign banks to operate on the mainland before a 2005 law outlawed them. They are Switzerland's UBS and Goldman Sachs. At this point, all other foreign banks have operations only in Hong Kong.

Saying there's "no need for lawyers because there's no crime" is misguided. The real money in law is at the corporate level, not criminal law. And foreign law firms are not allowed to operate. Almost no services industries are permitted without an emasculating JV, and there is also a tight limit on the number of foreign movies and media allowed. That's why Warner Bros., Bloomberg, Reuters and others have filed suits with the WTO. And this is the sort of protectionism that leads to a $300 billion annual trade surplus with the US. ($350b of Chinese goods vs. $50b of US goods.)

MIDDLE CLASS STAGNATION: The middle classes of the developed world -- the US, Japan, Korea, EU, Australia (though less so because of their commodities), Taiwan -- have seen stagnant wage growth for a decade. A large part of this is the loss of factory jobs, which happens because of many, many factors, including new technologies but also because of the above-mentioned (and WTO-violating) trade policies that make it difficult for many businesses to justify a refusal to move production to China. One-fifth of US factory jobs have been lost since 2002, and that happens not because of poor education or globalization as embodied in pure market forces but because of violations of the WTO's rules and the US's unwillingness to retaliate and go against the WTO.

CONCLUSION: I agree with you that improving education and continuing to embrace free trade are vital for the US. I have nothing against China as a place, but there are very serious problems it is causing for the US and other developed economies, and those problems aren't being addressed.

Just think about the things any of us buys on the street; it's almost all made in China, not Mexico or Colombia or any other place where we now have some ludicrous "no more free trade" issue. That's problematic not because China's a good or bad place but because it leads to an unbalanced US economy, overly reliant on any one country and devoid of a rich number of industries and sectors that comprise a diversified economy.

Instead of free trade, we have a one-way street, which has led to an unnecessarily large loss in US jobs, a transition of factory workers to less-skilled jobs, and a sagging US economy. Heck, yesterday's big business story out of Boston was that Massachusetts' own 3Com is moving its management to China because it wants to shift production there.

Complaining a la Hillary about free trade with Mexico -- hardly a threat to jobs in any way -- is way off base. I can think of few companies that have moved or are moving production there. Unfree trade with China is a bigger problem, and it's led to huge trade imbalances, a hurting middle class struggling to adapt to mass job loss, supply-chain reliance on one foreign country, and huge amounts of US debt held by a foreign state. I don't mean to bash China at all -- instead, Washington needs to figure out what's best for the US (just as China acts for what's best for itself) and ensure the US digs itself out of a reliance on the goods of one place, no matter how awesome or friendly it is, and closes its unwieldy trade deficits.

By the exact same token, reliance on foreign energy sources, from Canadian to Venezuelan to Saudi supplies, has the same effect -- a big outflow of capital from the US and into another country's pockets. The US needs to find a way to end its reliance on foreign oil and gas the way as urgently as it needs to address its trade disparity with China. Both are big problems because they hurt America, not because it's China, Venezuela, or Canada benefiting.

Barb, I don't mean to offend you or anyone; I just see a massive imbalance that I think needs righting. ... I hope you'll understand ... Truce?
 
The US's manufacturing capacity is at record levels, and the US's massive farm subsidies cause much more distortion to world markets than China's comparitively puny incentives and rebates. That said, I agree to disagree. Truce.
 
Good news for Logan, Lufthansa has announced that their season Boston-Munich service, which has run for about 6 and a half months for the last 4 or 5 years is going year round and during the off peak months (Late October-End of March) the flight will operate 6 x week with an all business class 319.
 
Amazing, I heard this about six months ago and I thought the person telling me this was completely full of crap.
 
Virgin America Headed to Chicago, Boston Next?

Virgin, which now serves seven cities -- San Francisco, Los Angeles,
Seattle, New York, Las Vegas, San Diego, Washington, D.C., and Seattle -- has said that it was planning to add two cities east of the Mississippi this year. And in a February interview, Virgin CEO David Curb hinted that the lucky two could be Chicago and Boston, saying the carrier favored such cities with large business centers.

The full story here:
http://www.boston.com/travel/blog/2008/05/virgin_america.html
 
I fly to San Francisco at least once a month and while I'm satisfied with United for now, I would really love to see another decent carrier enter that market however from what I've read Miami and Denver were to be next with Boston and Chicago being pushed back. Chicago's obviously a go but I would still expect the next major announcement to be Denver some time soon, then Miami for their winter high season then finally Boston for spring 2009, that is if Virgin America hasn't gone under. The Boston-California market is pretty saturated though with 7 daily flights to LAX, 2 to San Diego and 8 to SFO plus the secondary airports of Long Beach, Oakland and San Jose. With Seattle and Portland now sufficiently covered I can't see any reason for anyone else to enter the west coast blood bath now. Boston used to be a goldmine for almost every airline flying here but with the advent of JetBlue and AirTran combined with the more viable alternatives of Manchester and Providence, making the big money at Logan has become a thing of the past. P.S. I think jet fuel's up to $8/gallon so that doesn't help.
 
I fly to San Francisco at least once a month and while I'm satisfied with United for now, I would really love to see another decent carrier enter that market however from what I've read Miami and Denver were to be next with Boston and Chicago being pushed back. Chicago's obviously a go but I would still expect the next major announcement to be Denver some time soon, then Miami for their winter high season then finally Boston for spring 2009, that is if Virgin America hasn't gone under. The Boston-California market is pretty saturated though with 7 daily flights to LAX, 2 to San Diego and 8 to SFO plus the secondary airports of Long Beach, Oakland and San Jose. With Seattle and Portland now sufficiently covered I can't see any reason for anyone else to enter the west coast blood bath now. Boston used to be a goldmine for almost every airline flying here but with the advent of JetBlue and AirTran combined with the more viable alternatives of Manchester and Providence, making the big money at Logan has become a thing of the past. P.S. I think jet fuel's up to $8/gallon so that doesn't help.


You bring up valid point. Boston-California is a HUGE market. If you were to add up the daily passengers flying between Boston-Los Angeles, Long Beach, San Diego, San Jose, Oakland and San Francisco, that would be about 5,700 daily passengers. That doesn't include all the people using Los Angeles and San Francisco to connect to Asia and Oceania, so the market is very large. Sure Jet Blue has cut into American and United's solid Boston-California market, but the same could be said for a bunch of other cities as well. The market is right for the amount of service it has. Boston to Portland, OR was long overdue as the daily market is large enough to support a daily flight. Manchester and Providence have cut into the traffic from Boston, but that is the lower yielding traffic, people that don't need a non-stop and are flying on the cheap. If there is one reason Boston-California is not as profitable as it was 6 or 7 years ago, Jet Blue is the reason.

You are pretty much spot on with the Virgin America stuff. It will be VERY interesting to see what happens if they start Miami-San Francisco and Los Angeles as only American flies those 2 routes.
 
Itchy

Actually you should find a better poster boy than "Massachusetts own 3Com"

3Com is a carpetbagger -- it started in California (although Bob Metcalf created the Ethernet concept while he was out here) and then 3Com moved its HQ to Massachusetts (I think mostly to be near to its financial underpinnings more than anything else)-- however there never was any significant manufacturing here

So if the HQ is moving to China then it will be near to its manufacturing and to a large extent its markets

Novel is another carpetbagger that moved its HQ here although it left most of its development team in Utah

There are lots of examples of European and even Israeli companies that have relocated their HQ to Boston to be near to capital and customers while leaving their founders and development teams in Germany, Israel, Ireland, Scotland, etc

And then we have the companies that have moved some or most of all of their R&D to Boston (e.g. Novartis, Schlumberger, etc) and then we have those companies that just want to have a R&D presence here (e.g. Microsoft, Google, etc) to take advantage of the MIT students.

So the whole business of high-tech companies coming and going is not by any means a one-way street. We might lose some because they are bought and relocate -- but then we often get compensatory ones moving in

Westy


So the
 
Looks like the airline industry is in shambles, Logan will lose nonstop to several markets in the process.

Delta will end Quebec City, Greensborough, Fredericton and Norfolk. All of these markets will no longer have Boston nonstops.
 
Though not at Logan, MassPort announced the return of direct Florida service to Worcester Regional Airport on thursday. It appears that Virgin America will operate the flights on their Airbus A320 Aircraft.

By Associated Press

WORCESTER, Mass. -- State officials are set to announce a new scheduled air passenger service for the Worcester Regional Airport for the first time in two years.

The Massachusetts Port Authority said in a news release Thursday the details of a new service offering direct flights to Florida beginning this fall will be announced on Friday.

It would be the first new scheduled passenger service since Allegiant Air shut down operations at Worcester in September 2006, less than a year into a five-year deal with the city.

Las Vegas-based Allegiant, which provided service to Florida, said it was losing money on the routes because of fuel costs and competition for budget-conscious travelers.

U.S. Airways Express had served the regional airport before Allegiant, but left in February 2003. That airline said it had slow ticket sales and a need to cut costs as part of bankruptcy reorganization.
http://www.turnto10.com/northeast/jar/news.apx.-content-articles-JAR-2008-09-05-0005.html

(Please move this post to a better location if one exists. I couldn't find one and didn't feel this warranted its own thread).

*Edit* more elaborate story here: http://www.telegram.com/article/20080905/NEWS/809050634/1116
 
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Though not at Logan, MassPort announced the return of direct Florida service to Worcester Regional Airport on thursday. It appears that Virgin America will operate the flights on their Airbus A320 Aircraft.



(Please move this post to a better location if one exists. I couldn't find one and didn't feel this warranted its own thread).

*Edit* more elaborate story here: http://www.telegram.com/article/20080905/NEWS/809050634/1116

The Worcester flights to Florida will be operated by a partner of Virgin America.

And JetBlue is discontinuing its Boston San Francisco and Boston San Jose non-stop services. So maybe Virgin America will pick up the slack, but not sure you can make money flying an A-320 on that route. The Globe said it costs JetBlue $20,000 in fuel to fly that route.
 
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^ yes. Sorry for not being clearer. Directair out of Myrtle Beach S.C. Will operate the Worcester flights on virginamerica equipment (A320). I don't see how they can profit either on such large aircraft at an airport where getting passengers has been an issue.
 
And JetBlue is discontinuing its Boston San Francisco and Boston San Jose non-stop services. So maybe Virgin America will pick up the slack, but not sure you can make money flying an A-320 on that route. The Globe said it costs JetBlue $20,000 in fuel to fly that route.

Fuck.
 
^^ Shitty news about the JetBlue routes. I've been on the SF flight several times, and the flights have always been full.

I just ran into a JetBlue co-pilot in a sandwich place in Beachmont. He says those route will both be restored in the foreseeable future.
 
Yeah. Major suck. That direct flight to SJC (and recently SFO) has been an absolute savior for me over the past three years, not to mention a pretty damn good deal (one way flights often under $150).

Now the question becomes: to schlep all the way out to Oakland (assuming they keep that route...) or deal with layovers.
 
I wish JetBlue would resume flying to Columbus, Ohio, where my family lives. When they flew this route nonstop, I was willing to pay a premium price to use it. JetBlue pulled out of the market when SkyBus started, but SkyBus has gone bust.
 
Yeah. Major suck. That direct flight to SJC (and recently SFO) has been an absolute savior for me over the past three years, not to mention a pretty damn good deal (one way flights often under $150).

Now the question becomes: to schlep all the way out to Oakland (assuming they keep that route...) or deal with layovers.

Jet Blue, like every other airline, is feeling the pinch of record fuel prices and a soft economy. No airlines right now are adding trans con flights and a lot have made cuts.
Jet Blue will never pull out of Boston-Bay area as it is far to popular. I would also bet that either SFO or SJC will be back in the next 6-9 months.
 
I think this is the first time in recent history that Boston has not had a non-stop to San Jose. I remember reading on airliners.net some time ago that American used to fly four flights per day there, of course that was at the height of the dot com bubble. It's a market that should still be covered, but as the issue was with San Francisco, it's an inherently premium market and with other carriers offering a premium class nonstop to San Francisco or easy connections to San Jose, JetBlue had no shot at the big money. If Virgin America wasn't in such bad shape I'm sure they would be jumping on the Boston-San Francisco route.
 
I think this is the first time in recent history that Boston has not had a non-stop to San Jose. I remember reading on airliners.net some time ago that American used to fly four flights per day there, of course that was at the height of the dot com bubble. It's a market that should still be covered, but as the issue was with San Francisco, it's an inherently premium market and with other carriers offering a premium class nonstop to San Francisco or easy connections to San Jose, JetBlue had no shot at the big money. If Virgin America wasn't in such bad shape I'm sure they would be jumping on the Boston-San Francisco route.

A few months ago I flew Boston-San Jose direct with Continental.
 

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