Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

LH421 said:
Nothing overly noteworthy, but the seasonal AA 757 service to CDG will NOT be returning for the 2018 season. For years many on the interwebs had predicted it being cut and it has managed to come back year after year. It was never a great performer, but then again it is easy to make money flying to Europe during the summer but between the 757 fleet draw down and glut of overcapacity in the transatlantic makes good sense to throw in the towel.
Click to expand...

2nd Air France Paris flight (10pm ish) also not loaded for Summer 2018.

I flew the 7:20 flight last week and the 2nd flight had been cancelled.

Also Boston-Syracuse on JetBlue is happening starting in January 2018. One daily flight with late pm Boston departure and really early Syracuse departure. Making use of a spare plane to please Schumer.

http://www.syracuse.com/business-ne...cuse-to-boston_service_with_59_fare_sale.html
 
Is travel to France from the US down as a result of their increase in high profile terror attacks over the last couple of years?
 
I don't see a drop in tourism being the culprit. I see Norwegian, Wow, and IcelandAir being behind the decrease in flights to Paris.

If I had to guess Paris is not as much of a business destination compared to London, so consumers might be more price conscious and likely to book with a LCC.

With regards to AA they're basically cutting all non hub service from Boston. I wouldn't be surprised if DL becomes the number 2 carrier at Logan in the near future.
 
tysmith95 said:
I don't see a drop in tourism being the culprit. I see Norwegian, Wow, and IcelandAir being behind the decrease in flights to Paris.

If I had to guess Paris is not as much of a business destination compared to London, so consumers might be more price conscious and likely to book with a LCC.

With regards to AA they're basically cutting all non hub service from Boston. I wouldn't be surprised if DL becomes the number 2 carrier at Logan in the near future.
Click to expand...

Delta is going to become the #2 carrier at Logan. Once they get the 5 Southwest gates in Terminal A, they will be expanding even further.


At some point something has to really start giving - Logan has seen a very large increase in service over to Europe. Heck look across this country and over the last couple of years many airports have seen large increases in seats to Europe.



Air Canada is introducing Montreal - Tokyo Narita flights. In the press release it states that the flight it timed for connections to/from Boston. Curious if a number of people connect through Montreal when flying internationally?
 
mass88 said:
Air Canada is introducing Montreal - Tokyo Narita flights. In the press release it states that the flight it timed for connections to/from Boston. Curious if a number of people connect through Montreal when flying internationally?
Click to expand...

Sometimes. They're often a lot cheaper and the services is pretty good. I connect through Toronto and Montreal regularly. I can't afford Business out of pocket, but there are almost always reasonable upgrades to Premium Economy available on their 787s. I've chosen connecting on AC over direct out of Logan sometimes because of the price and level of service.
 
tysmith95 said:
With regards to AA they're basically cutting all non hub service from Boston.
Click to expand...
Really? Can you describe the cutbacks? I'd think we'd see B6 enter ROC and some other old legacy "US" markets.
 
Massport to study a toll/congestion charge/fee for driving onto Logan Airport grounds:

BOSTON (AP) — The operators of Logan International Airport in Boston have agreed to study a plan to charge drivers who pick up or drop off passengers at the terminals in an attempt to cut down on congestion and pollution.

The Boston Globe reports that the study is part of an agreement between the Massachusetts Port Authority and the environmental group, the Conservation Law Foundation.

In exchange, the foundation will not oppose the agency’s $250 million plan to add 5,000 parking spaces at Logan.

Massport officials say more than 20,000 cars per day pull up to Logan’s terminals to either drop someone off or pick someone up.

More flights in an out of Boston in the last few years means more pollution.

The review is expected to be completed by July 2019
Click to expand...

https://www.boston.com/cars/car-news/2017/08/28/logan-to-study-charging-fees-for-pickup-dropoff

Unsure why they need to spend two years and an untold amount of money studying this, sounds like a nice money grab for some far left group and whomever has the privilege of running this study.

What I don't get is for years Massport has stated in sustainability reports and on the Airwaves airport music announcements that our airport has among the highest penetration of travelers arriving by non-private automobile and the airport already has a fee for ride sharing, taxis, and car service operators.

That said, this isn't entirely unique and is already commonplace at numerous airports around the U.K. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...drop-zones-Luton-revealed-worst-offender.html). Within the United States, Dallas/Ft. Worth International airport is the one that charges motorists to access the airport grounds and has toll booths at both the north and south ends of the International Parkway.
 
> Unsure why they need to spend two years and an untold amount of money studying this

"Untold" need not be "unreasonably high". Considering the amount of economic activity at stake, it seems reasonable to determine:
- the optimal number of personal car trips to be encouraged (less congestion) vs discouraged (more cost)
- the optimal interaction with parking & sho rtest-term parking (0-30 min?)
- the optimal price & market (fixed, time of day, dynamic?)
- the optimal place to collect it (entry? exit?)
- the optimal means of collecting it (Plate Pass & gantries?)

> sounds like a nice money grab for some far left group and whomever has the privilege of running this study.

Is the idea of market-pricing a scarce thing (like terminal roadway space) a left-wing idea? "Let the market decide" used to be a right-wing idea, while "free stuff for individuals" was supposedly left wing. What happened?
And frankly, my experience of transportation engineering firms is that they are boring technocrats.

> our airport has among the highest penetration of travelers arriving by non-private automobile and the airport already has a fee for ride sharing, taxis, and car service operators.

Yes it does. Pricing parking higher, making Silver Line trips half-free, and forcing car-renters onto common shuttles have all been ways to accommodate airside growth from a fixed amount of roadside space.

> Within the United States, Dallas/Ft. Worth International airport is the one that charges motorists to access the airport grounds and has toll booths at both the north and south ends of the International Parkway

So the correct conclusion from UK and DFW examples is that pricing airport access is a healthy market solution that should be embraced by both left (for its environmental benefits) and right (for its allocation benefits). Only when thinking is clouded by "my car is my freedom" emotions would anyone conclude that airport-access fees are left wing.
 
Arlington said:
So the correct conclusion from UK and DFW examples is that pricing airport access is a healthy market solution that should be embraced by both left (for its environmental benefits) and right (for its allocation benefits). Only when thinking is clouded by "my car is my freedom" emotions would anyone conclude that airport-access fees are left wing.
Click to expand...

My question here is: how many more people can really get to Logan without driving? Massport is paying for suburban shuttle bus service. It's paying for the Silver Line. There's a relatively new Blue Line station with new, fancy shuttles. A connector to Terminal E is on the horizon. Massport is even running dedicated shuttles to the BCEC and Back Bay.

I suppose that if you built 20 more Logan Express operations so that you could consolidate riders from every direction that might do some more, but beyond that the toll would be simply punitive. Vehicles are already tolled coming into Logan under the harbor and along the Turnpike, so it's not about infrastructure costs (not to mention parking and ticket fees). CLF claims that tolls can mode shift people, but honestly I don't think tolls would cover the cost of a subway tunnel under the terminals, and that's pretty much the only way left to raise transit access.

Lots of folks think that fining people for a car-based lifestyle is okay, but be honest about it. Don't hide behind a fiction that Massport isn't working for mode shift (the CLF, not you, Arlington).
 
Equilibria said:
My question here is: how many more people can really get to Logan without driving?
Click to expand...
I'll nominate my household in West Medford and much of the CR-accessible North Station - centric inner 'burb wedge without good access to South Station: Waltham, Belmont, Arlington, Lexington, Winchester, Medford, Melrose. The Logan Express buses all start in places bad for us (usually involving going "out" to Anderson Woburn before riding it "in"). It is also a challenge when double connections make about half of trip time.

We need a Gold Line from North Station to Haymarket to Logan. It should be free, since, really, it is a "free transfer" for anyone whose ridden CR to NS or Orange to Haymarket. And it would save a seat for anyone who, today, does Green-Blue-Shuttle to have them do Green-Gold.

Personally, as a penny-pinching transit nut, I'm happy to take the 94-Davis-SS-Silver (and reverse for free!) but it still is a 3 seat ride that never takes less than 55 minutes. But family and neighbors look at me like I have two heads (I do not, actually). And frankly that trip has all the flaws of our regional network: infrequent bus, crowded Red,cCircuitous Silver.

And, yea, those congestion charges should be used for:
Silver-under-D
Silver on downramp
Gold Line from NS/Haymkt
 
Last edited:
It's really a shame you can't get to the airport terminals via train without having to deal with a bus transfer to the terminals. I recently took the train (light rail) in Portland, OR from downtown to the airport with a decent amount of luggage and it couldn't have been easier. I know we have discussed this before, and my recollection is it is cost prohibitive or just not realistic, but is there really no way to extend the blue line to the terminals or somewhere close so two modes of transportation are not necessary when using the train?
 
Arlington said:
And, yea, those congestion charges should be used for:
Silver-under-D
Silver on downramp
Gold Line from NS/Haymkt
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but then they'd have to be collected by an agency other than Massport. I believe that they would count as "aviation revenue" under FAA reg's and would have to be spent on-airport (though a Massport-operated shuttle running your Gold Line route might be eligible). Also, the Silver on the State Police ramp issue isn't about money, except perhaps for bribing the Troopers.

Silver-Under-D isn't an issue of money, it's an issue of the MBTA getting off its A$$ and doing it. Maybe it should have been part of the adjacent Transit Center project, though.

BosDevelop said:
It's really a shame you can't get to the airport terminals via train without having to deal with a bus transfer to the terminals. I recently took the train (light rail) in Portland, OR from downtown to the airport with a decent amount of luggage and it couldn't have been easier. I know we have discussed this before, and my recollection is it is cost prohibitive or just not realistic, but is there really no way to extend the blue line to the terminals or somewhere close so two modes of transportation are not necessary when using the train?
Click to expand...

Very much cost-prohibitive, and incompatible with current service patterns. You couldn't divert the Blue any closer than it is, and a stub end would be a 3-4 station shuttle branch. The time to do it was when the Ted Williams Tunnel was built, but Salvucci killed it.
 
Equilibria said:
Also, the Silver on the State Police ramp issue isn't about money, except perhaps for bribing the Troopers.
Click to expand...

I've said this before and I'll say it again, how exactly are the State Police blocking its use? It was built by MassDOT (turnpike authority) and is maintained by MassDOT. I don't see where the State Police fit into this picture. Does Baker not support its use? This isn't like the typical City vs State or Feds. This is State vs State and both have the same upper management.
 
It's a shame that a central Blue Line station was never built under the central parking garage - similar to what O'Hare has with the MTA Blue Line.

Adding any sort of additional cost on those picking up and dropping people off would be a bad call. As mentioned a lot of drivers are already paying a toll if they come and go on the Ted Williams tunnel and the harbor tunnels.

Could Massport look at operational adjustments and/or upgrades to speed up how quickly passengers get from the plane, get their bags? I find Logan to be on slower side when it comes to the speed at which your bags are on the belt after your flight.
 
mass88 said:
It's a shame that a central Blue Line station was never built under the central parking garage - similar to what O'Hare has with the MTA Blue Line.
Click to expand...

Moving Airport station 1 km over to the central garage would better serve Logan but be significantly worse for non-airport East Boston riders. Most (?) of the people who get on and off at Airport aren't actually going to the Airport.

It would also be a major project, as the Blue Line now just follows the Grand Junction ROW through there.

Airports already receive significantly outsized attention when it comes to transit infrastructure. Logan's transit connectivity is fine. Any public transit resources put towards hard infrastructure improvements at Logan would better be spent on other parts of the transit system.
 
BosDevelop said:
It's really a shame you can't get to the airport terminals via train without having to deal with a bus transfer to the terminals. I recently took the train (light rail) in Portland, OR from downtown to the airport with a decent amount of luggage and it couldn't have been easier. I know we have discussed this before, and my recollection is it is cost prohibitive or just not realistic, but is there really no way to extend the blue line to the terminals or somewhere close so two modes of transportation are not necessary when using the train?
Click to expand...

mass88 said:
It's a shame that a central Blue Line station was never built under the central parking garage - similar to what O'Hare has with the MTA Blue Line.

Adding any sort of additional cost on those picking up and dropping people off would be a bad call. As mentioned a lot of drivers are already paying a toll if they come and go on the Ted Williams tunnel and the harbor tunnels.

Could Massport look at operational adjustments and/or upgrades to speed up how quickly passengers get from the plane, get their bags? I find Logan to be on slower side when it comes to the speed at which your bags are on the belt after your flight.
Click to expand...

Running an underground subway/light rail costs upwards of $100 million/mile plus the costs of land acquisition and construction of a costly underground station. The PDX MAX system is of course at grade and is technically a modern light rail, but they have ample land surrounding the airport and nearby Cascade Station area by the IKEA and aloft complex.

Especially in our local area people who take public transit are accustomed to making transfers, navigating the antiquated and IMO inadequate MBTA system with all its oddities. There are other airports like DFW (light rail is only from Terminal A) or PHL (SEPTA doesn't stop at international terminal A-West and runs infrequently) that have direct airport access, but each has its pros and cons. Even with a set-up like at ORD or LHR to get to the Picadilly line or premium geared Heathrow Express, it can still be upwards of a 15 minute walk from the passenger terminals 2 or 3.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top