Logan Airport

dshoost, you just can't simply fill wetlands these days. San Francisco airport is filling 3.7 acres of the Bay for a runway. As mitigation the airport has to create/restore 7.4 acres of wetland elsewhere (in this case, at the Presidio).

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2012/03/sfo-runway-work-helping-wetlands-revival-take

Technically in my plan you would have a net gain of 0 acres at Logan because you'd be using existing earth from the site to fill in different parts of the harbor. Now I'm not quite sure my plan there's a way to mitigate for the Wood Island wetland(s) (are these even wetlands?) immediately surrounding Logan, but I'm sure we could find somewhere else along Boston Harbor to create a new area of wetland growth.

Boston cannot operate a uni-direction runway(s) because crosswind constraints would seriously limit operations. Boston is the windiest major city in the United States, average wind speed is two mph higher than Chicago, which is ranked 12th.

Annual wind statistics Logan
http://www.windfinder.com/windstats/windstatistic_boston_logan_airport.htm

Wind statistics for Gatwick
http://www.windfinder.com/windstats/windstatistic_gatwick_airport.htm

Compare the wind roses for Logan and Gatwick, and the average velocities, and one will understand why Logan requires multi-directional, intersecting runways.

See the wind rose for SFO, relatively high winds, but uni-directional.
http://www.windfinder.com/windstats/windstatistic_san_francisco.htm

I won't pretend to be an expert on this because, admittedly, I'm not. But please educate me for a minute if you can. Doesn't a much longer runway reduce any constraints to operations an airport would experience due to wind? I thought one of the reasons airports in places where the air is thin or winds are high have long runways is to give the pilots ample time to land in such conditions.

Logan has never had a runway of that sort--that's why I proposed TWO 13,000+ foot runways in the first place. IF the longer runway remedies the wind issue, then I don't see why Logan needs additional runways facing all sorts of directions. I mean, seriously, isn't Logan already constraining its operations by having the 6 runways facing completely non-parallel directions? It's so inefficient, it drives me crazy!
 
I won't pretend to be an expert on this because, admittedly, I'm not. But please educate me for a minute if you can. Doesn't a much longer runway reduce any constraints to operations an airport would experience due to wind? I thought one of the reasons airports in places where the air is thin or winds are high have long runways is to give the pilots ample time to land in such conditions.

A longer runway does nothing do deal with crosswind. The reason that it's possible for many airports to operate with parallel runways has to do with the speed and thrust that large aircraft produce on takeoff. Airports like DFW and ORD see basically nothing but large jets, so they can get away with it.

Logan has more varied and stronger winds than both of those fields. FAA safety regulations ban operations when crosswinds exceed a certain threshold. In the windiest locations (like Logan) that would result in increased downtime and delays. That wild system of criss-crossing runways has its advantages.
 
dshoost, how much crosswind is allowed on takeoff and landing depends on the aircraft type, the operator, the width of the runway, whether the runway is dry or wet, whether the plane has winglets or not, the directional component of the crosswind, etc. Runway length is not a factor.

Crosswinds gusting above 30-35 knots may be pushing acceptable limits

Here is a Swissair MD-11 landing at Hong Kong in a crosswind. From the pine branches on the hill top, the wind does not look that high. Notice the crabbing.

http://www.pakfiles.com/watch-video...1-crosswind-landing-Hong-Kong-Kai-Tak-Airport

Intersecting, omni-directional runways are not a matter of inefficiency, they exist for safety where winds at the airport require such.

Significant crosswind, but only 20 degrees off the runway heading.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V6cMK9LUnzI

What aircraft manufacturers and operators strive for is a stabilized approach.

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/med...items/AirbusSafetyLib_-FLT_OPS-APPR-SEQ01.pdf


Landing long on a long runway at Moscow, landing on one gear, then erroneous application of thrust reversers to try and stop, December 2012. Video from a Russian car's videocam (all the rage in Russia for insurance purposes)

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hEQdW6yS5o4
 
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Reason #1: FAA restrictions.

So what? Others have already pointed out that Boston has plenty of development opportunities yet to be tapped. We aren't hurting from height limits except in the world of self-esteem. Having an airport this close to the city is a valuable asset, more valuable than a super tall on the harbor. If we need a super tall, there are places where it could be built without FAA issues. Downtown needs to grow South and West before we need to start thinking about building on Logan.
 
In all honesty, we have trouble getting anything built even close to the FAA's height restriction today.

When developers are lining up at our doorstop just begging to build tall everywhere in Boston and we've exhausted every opportunity to do so outside of the FAA height restriction zone, then we can talk about those height restrictions as though they're an actual issue.

Until that happens, though, there are plenty of reasons why we might discuss moving Logan (or expanding it, which is an actually feasible thing we could do at some point in the future) - but "height restrictions on development in Eastie" is not one of those reasons.
 
South Station Tower -- FAA beat it with a stick.

Aquarium Garage Tower -- FAA poo-pooed the idea.

Seaport -- Perma-capped.

Eastie -- Perma-capped, losing ground to MassPort acquisitions almost incessantly.
 
South Station Tower -- FAA beat it with a stick.

Aquarium Garage Tower -- FAA poo-pooed the idea.

Seaport -- Perma-capped.

Eastie -- Perma-capped, losing ground to MassPort acquisitions almost incessantly.

I agree with Henry Alan.

The proximate international airport trumps the need for harbor supertalls.

There is always Copley, North Point, North Station, etc. for super talls.
 
If capacity at Logan returns as an issue, continued "offloading" of NYC, PHL and WAS traffic to a mix of PVD/MHT and to High Speed Rail is probably the most cost-effective solution.

Logan would thrive in the 200mile spoke markets, the 500mile domestic markets and, of course, the international destinations. As big as the Northeast corridor local market are they'll never be quality feed for a BOS hub or international because NYC/PHL/WAS already have highly effective hubs soaking up demand.

London, LHR in particular, has done great things with the slots freed up from all the flying that used to go to Paris and other markets now served by the Chunnel.
 
If capacity at Logan returns as an issue, continued "offloading" of NYC, PHL and WAS traffic to a mix of PVD/MHT and to High Speed Rail is probably the most cost-effective solution.

Logan would thrive in the 200mile spoke markets, the 500mile domestic markets and, of course, the international destinations. As big as the Northeast corridor local market are they'll never be quality feed for a BOS hub or international because NYC/PHL/WAS already have highly effective hubs soaking up demand.

London, LHR in particular, has done great things with the slots freed up from all the flying that used to go to Paris and other markets now served by the Chunnel.

what?
 
If you back up and say the problem is *mobility* (not "air travel) and frame it for the Boston Metro area (not "Boston") you'll see that added capacity at Logan is not necessarily the answer--and certainly not the cheapest.

It may be considerably cheaper to improve Acela services to hourly or even twice-hourly. This would cause the airlines to cut back service and free up capacity (now devoted to BOS-NYC) for all those other things (like transoceanic flights) that *only* Logan can do.

This is what has already happened on LON-PAR routes (which used to be Europe's busiest air corridor). As the Eurostar train came to dominate, the airlines suddenly found they had slots at LHR and CDG that they could allocate to long-haul flying. The same will happen in Boston. The Tories estimated that 20% of London's flying was to markets that high-speed rail could serve better...not quite enough to save a whole runway (they're considering a 3rd for LHR or a second for LGW) but darn close.

Airport guys talk about how much new capacity we need without ever asking if another mode could better accommodate the traffic.

Trains have a proven ability to "drain" trips off the bottom of an airport, thereby effectively adding to capacity for long-hauls.

Reliever airports have been less successful, but PVD and MHT have the potential in the long run to get flights to hubs like FRA and CDG. Yes, BDL's flight to AMS didn't work, but if demand is really growing as we think some of what is thought of as "BOS" demand would actually be happy to fly from PVD/MHT/BDL in future years.
 
Heathrow Airport would not be nearly as slot controlled as it currently is if they were able to build more runways and did not have a strict curfew on flights.

I would imagine if a new airport was built inland, the wind issue would be a lot less than it currently is.
 
If you back up and say the problem is *mobility* (not "air travel) and frame it for the Boston Metro area (not "Boston") you'll see that added capacity at Logan is not necessarily the answer--and certainly not the cheapest.

It may be considerably cheaper to improve Acela services to hourly or even twice-hourly. This would cause the airlines to cut back service and free up capacity (now devoted to BOS-NYC) for all those other things (like transoceanic flights) that *only* Logan can do.

This is what has already happened on LON-PAR routes (which used to be Europe's busiest air corridor). As the Eurostar train came to dominate, the airlines suddenly found they had slots at LHR and CDG that they could allocate to long-haul flying. The same will happen in Boston. The Tories estimated that 20% of London's flying was to markets that high-speed rail could serve better...not quite enough to save a whole runway (they're considering a 3rd for LHR or a second for LGW) but darn close.

Airport guys talk about how much new capacity we need without ever asking if another mode could better accommodate the traffic.

Trains have a proven ability to "drain" trips off the bottom of an airport, thereby effectively adding to capacity for long-hauls.

Reliever airports have been less successful, but PVD and MHT have the potential in the long run to get flights to hubs like FRA and CDG. Yes, BDL's flight to AMS didn't work, but if demand is really growing as we think some of what is thought of as "BOS" demand would actually be happy to fly from PVD/MHT/BDL in future years.

It's not going to be considerably cheaper to do anything with the Acela because of the political hostage-takers otherwise known as the Connecticut Marines Association - there's no way to get to T.F. Green (which isn't even adequately prepped to see Amtrak service of any kind) without being stuck on the Shore Line down through several bridges which we just can't seem to find the will to keep closed any more often than they currently are. 39 trains a day - absolute limit. The Marine Trades Association steadfastly opposes any more.

On the north side, Acela service to Manchester is laughably pie-in-the-sky with no electrification, no rail link, and no active lines out that way to even start from. Not to mention that readying the Lowell(-Concord) Line for high-speed service is going to be far, far more involved than simply extending commuter rail service into New Hampshire - eliminating grade crossings, reconstructing several stations, building several new ones, double-tracking (triple-tracking??) 100% of the line and probably smoothing out a few unfortunate curves. Mission creep to the extreme versus a relatively straightforward commuter operation with the potential to have a Regional-esque service stapled on after the fact. I'm not saying all of that shouldn't be done eventually anyway - but it's a 2050 discussion, not a 2015 one.

Fortunately, the solution doesn't lie in the Acela anyway. Commuter Rail service to KMHT and expanded service to KPVD is sufficient if limited-stop expresses can be introduced to keep the travel times down to between 45 minutes and an hour. Amtrak Regionals today do BOS - PVD in about 40 minutes and less extreme padding would let them do PVD - BOS in about 40 minutes as well. We'll call it 50 even for the projected time on a roundtrip to the Airport. In the other direction, 50 minutes isn't possible without the same sort of exorbitant expenditures needed for Acela service, but that's okay, because 75 minutes is probably doable on day 1 with the introduction of express service that skips every stop between KMHT and North Station except for Nashua (optional), Lowell, and Anderson RTC.

The reason why KBDL didn't work, won't work now and never will work is because driving times from Boston to Windsor Locks clock in at an even 2 hours. Meanwhile, Manchester is 1 even and Warwick is 1 and change. Reasonably heavy traffic, such as you might encounter during rush hour, inflates those times by 15 minutes or so. Still, my point is clear - roughly an hour, give or take 15 minutes based on modal choice and externalities like traffic, puts Manchester and Warwick both well within range of Boston (hell, 45 minutes to an hour is probably about how long it takes you to get downtown from Brighton or Braintree on an average day). With extremely limited investment needed on the KPVD side, and no investment that wasn't already going to be undertaken as part of New Hampshire's Capital Corridor anyway on the north side. Very simple, very easy.

The best case scenario you could ever possibly hope for at KBDL is a two-hour drive, or an hour train trip into Hartford plus a transfer to a different train to Windsor Locks followed by a shuttle to the airport, likely ending up taking you longer than the two-hour drive. Nobody in the Boston metro market is ever going to be happily flying out of KBDL, but plenty of people in the Boston metro market will happily fly out of KPVD or KMHT.
 

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