Lowell Infill and Small Developments

[stefal]

After driving through the site again this week, the first time in a while, it seems they've cleaned things up and are getting ready for winter. Order is kind of restored! Lanes are a little wider where they used to be narrower, and it's all (currently) smooth pavement. Looks like they're within a week or 2 of closing the Appleton Street overpass and moving traffic over to the new fill.

 

[reverend_paco]

A nice flyover description of the Lord Overpass tear-down.

 

[George_Apley]

Going forward make new threads for large Lowell projects. Renaming this "infill and small developments".

 

[stick n move]

201 canal st finished in lowell

https://keithconstruction.net/project/201-canal/

Inside is beautiful

https://www.forrent.com/ma/lowell/201-canal/wegfhnj

 

[stick n move]

Moved.


Lowell City Council OKs sale of Hamilton Canal land to Lupoli Companies

LOWELL — The City Council voted unanimously Tuesday to authorize City Manager Eileen Donoghue to enter into a land disposition agreement with Lupoli Companies for five city-owned Jackson Street parcels located in the Hamilton Canal Innovation District.

It’s a major move for the redevelopment of this part of the city, in which Lupoli Companies CEO Sal Lupoli has envisioned a mixed-use development across multiple buildings, including a large tower.

Donoghue said it will be a minimum $30 million investment in the district.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lo...-hamilton-canal-land-to-lupoli-companies/amp/

 

[FK4]

Went to Lowell for first time in years yesterday. Downtown still felt pretty down and out, burned out urban decay I have to say. Numerous people on meth screaming and laughing at the sidewalk, nobody else around, felt like San Francisco lite. That being said, lots of potential for filling in parking lots and development of vacant lots. But the overall downtown atmosphere was pretty depressing.

I do fear that a lot of recent developments have been somewhat anti urban, with huge buildings set too far back, and too much parking. Such as the courthouse (somehow the government has lost the ability to simply build normal integrated buildings, everything has to be isolated and bollarded off, so stupid). This was an impression based on biking around and not throughly exploring. But, this also held true for the bus lanes on Thorndike St (holy shit what a nightmare, it’s like 9 lanes wide): I saw maybe three blocks of bus lanes which sounds great, but really it still is a massively wide urban highway with too many car lanes and then the bus lanes to boot. They should have done a major road diet AND built some damned buildings next to the road. Something about urban redevelopment these days where they always seem to proudly reduce some auto lanes but don’t reduce the right of way itself which leaves the same vacant urban scar feeling despite the trees and plantings and blah blah blah. See also the “Casey Arborway” by Forest Hills, same deal. My reactions to Lowell anyway. Hopefully more development can fill in some more holes but more broadly the solution to wide urban highways is to not only drop lanes but narrow the ROW and we never seem to see the latter.

 

[kingofsheeba]

Went to Lowell for first time in years yesterday. Downtown still felt pretty down and out, burned out urban decay I have to say. Numerous people on meth screaming and laughing at the sidewalk, nobody else around, felt like San Francisco lite. That being said, lots of potential for filling in parking lots and development of vacant lots. But the overall downtown atmosphere was pretty depressing.

I do fear that a lot of recent developments have been somewhat anti urban, with huge buildings set too far back, and too much parking. Such as the courthouse (somehow the government has lost the ability to simply build normal integrated buildings, everything has to be isolated and bollarded off, so stupid). This was an impression based on biking around and not throughly exploring. But, this also held true for the bus lanes on Thorndike St (holy shit what a nightmare, it’s like 9 lanes wide): I saw maybe three blocks of bus lanes which sounds great, but really it still is a massively wide urban highway with too many car lanes and then the bus lanes to boot. They should have done a major road diet AND built some damned buildings next to the road. Something about urban redevelopment these days where they always seem to proudly reduce some auto lanes but don’t reduce the right of way itself which leaves the same vacant urban scar feeling despite the trees and plantings and blah blah blah. See also the “Casey Arborway” by Forest Hills, same deal. My reactions to Lowell anyway. Hopefully more development can fill in some more holes but more broadly the solution to wide urban highways is to not only drop lanes but narrow the ROW and we never seem to see the latter.

You truly have to understand the politics of Lowell to know why the JAM plan went through the way that it did. Lots of people complained about the Lord Overpass fill and the end result with the bus lane. I think that will be the next complain du jour -at least amongst locals - regarding the JAM plan for the Hamilton Canal redevelopment. I’m not defending the Dina result. I’m saying that you have to know Lowell politics.

 

[Lrfox]

Went to Lowell for first time in years yesterday. Downtown still felt pretty down and out, burned out urban decay I have to say. Numerous people on meth screaming and laughing at the sidewalk, nobody else around, felt like San Francisco lite. That being said, lots of potential for filling in parking lots and development of vacant lots. But the overall downtown atmosphere was pretty depressing.

I do fear that a lot of recent developments have been somewhat anti urban, with huge buildings set too far back, and too much parking. Such as the courthouse (somehow the government has lost the ability to simply build normal integrated buildings, everything has to be isolated and bollarded off, so stupid). This was an impression based on biking around and not throughly exploring. But, this also held true for the bus lanes on Thorndike St (holy shit what a nightmare, it’s like 9 lanes wide): I saw maybe three blocks of bus lanes which sounds great, but really it still is a massively wide urban highway with too many car lanes and then the bus lanes to boot. They should have done a major road diet AND built some damned buildings next to the road. Something about urban redevelopment these days where they always seem to proudly reduce some auto lanes but don’t reduce the right of way itself which leaves the same vacant urban scar feeling despite the trees and plantings and blah blah blah. See also the “Casey Arborway” by Forest Hills, same deal. My reactions to Lowell anyway. Hopefully more development can fill in some more holes but more broadly the solution to wide urban highways is to not only drop lanes but narrow the ROW and we never seem to see the latter.

I've been several times in the past few years and this has been my experience as well. Great bones, somehow still down and out feeling in spite of decades of pretty significant investment. We actually looked at a couple of really nice condos there during the pandemic (prices were favorable until they weren't) and it was the overall dead feeling of downtown that ended up causing us to nix the idea. We've visited several times since and it doesn't feel much better. I realize that as it remains an old industrial town intent on preserving a good chunk of its historic architecture there will always be a level of grit to its appearance. But it seemed like it was on such an upward trajectory before kind of getting kind of stagnant.

 

[FK4]

I've been several times in the past few years and this has been my experience as well. Great bones, somehow still down and out feeling in spite of decades of pretty significant investment. We actually looked at a couple of really nice condos there during the pandemic (prices were favorable until they weren't) and it was the overall dead feeling of downtown that ended up causing us to nix the idea. We've visited several times since and it doesn't feel much better. I realize that as it remains an old industrial town intent on preserving a good chunk of its historic architecture there will always be a level of grit to its appearance. But it seemed like it was on such an upward trajectory before kind of getting kind of stagnant.

Yes, the last time I went was many years ago now, but there was lots of new stuff in the old mill buildings and since then there had seemed to be a lot of positive developments that I followed, mostly on here. I think it's very possible to keep all the old buildings, but the city needs to prioritize streetwalls with new construction and fill in spaces. Big mill buildings nestled against other buildings is urban; isolated giant brick blocks with vacant lots and/or big buildings surrounded by surface parking is not.

The city hall annex looked amazing I must say -- next to city hall, I think it houses the police station. Nothing on google street view captures it but in the sunset it looked like a gorgeous example of mid century modernism.

 

[ctsketch]

Went to Lowell for first time in years yesterday. Downtown still felt pretty down and out, burned out urban decay I have to say. Numerous people on meth screaming and laughing at the sidewalk, nobody else around, felt like San Francisco lite. That being said, lots of potential for filling in parking lots and development of vacant lots. But the overall downtown atmosphere was pretty depressing.

I do fear that a lot of recent developments have been somewhat anti urban, with huge buildings set too far back, and too much parking. Such as the courthouse (somehow the government has lost the ability to simply build normal integrated buildings, everything has to be isolated and bollarded off, so stupid). This was an impression based on biking around and not throughly exploring. But, this also held true for the bus lanes on Thorndike St (holy shit what a nightmare, it’s like 9 lanes wide): I saw maybe three blocks of bus lanes which sounds great, but really it still is a massively wide urban highway with too many car lanes and then the bus lanes to boot. They should have done a major road diet AND built some damned buildings next to the road. Something about urban redevelopment these days where they always seem to proudly reduce some auto lanes but don’t reduce the right of way itself which leaves the same vacant urban scar feeling despite the trees and plantings and blah blah blah. See also the “Casey Arborway” by Forest Hills, same deal. My reactions to Lowell anyway. Hopefully more development can fill in some more holes but more broadly the solution to wide urban highways is to not only drop lanes but narrow the ROW and we never seem to see the latter.

You don't stop drug abuse, mental illnesses or homelessness just by developing an are. Those things don't magic themselves away just because a pretty building is built

 

[FK4]

You don't stop drug abuse, mental illnesses or homelessness just by developing an are. Those things don't magic themselves away just because a pretty building is built

You can spare me the sanctimoniousness; nowhere did I imply that social problems disappear from society with better urbanism; however, social problems concentrate in areas with poor urbanism. You can moralize all you want about the complexity of these issues and the need to actually address them (which we as a society clearly do not), but there's no escaping that no amount of hand wringing changes the fact that when you're seeing a series of blocks with people psychotic on meth densely packing the street, you aint in an area that has been successfully developed. There's a difference between talking about the issues of homelessness, drug use etc and not whitewashing them generally from society, vs the fact that their presence in concentrated fashion indicates not only societal failure on a broad front, but local urbanism as well.

 

[ctsketch]

You can spare me the sanctimoniousness; nowhere did I imply that social problems disappear from society with better urbanism; however, social problems concentrate in areas with poor urbanism. You can moralize all you want about the complexity of these issues and the need to actually address them (which we as a society clearly do not), but there's no escaping that no amount of hand wringing changes the fact that when you're seeing a series of blocks with people psychotic on meth densely packing the street, you aint in an area that has been successfully developed. There's a difference between talking about the issues of homelessness, drug use etc and not whitewashing them generally from society, vs the fact that their presence in concentrated fashion indicates not only societal failure on a broad front, but local urbanism as well.

What's an example of a well devoped urban environment (in your opnion) that is free of panhandle, the homeless and addicted? And you don't get points if it's only free because police sweep daily.

It's not about successful development..its about supportive housing, support services, permisability, opportunity and the general parts of a society other than urban development

My theory is, what you're seeing in downtown Lowell is because it is not very developed you're ONLY seeing the negative elements. Even in the center of Boston's shopping areas these negative elements exist. But people generally feel safer when an area is crowded, they are also less aware individual elements when there is a huge crowd of the "positive" elements. The problem does not go away with successful urbanization, it gets diluted.

 

[BronsonShore]

Electrify the commuter rail to Lowell and run it every 15 minutes and the city will absolutely explode. The bones are too damn pretty not to.

 

[jklo]

Electrify the commuter rail to Lowell and run it every 15 minutes and the city will absolutely explode. The bones are too damn pretty not to.

Because there's no point. As expensive as Boston is, it's not like Lowell would be any cheaper when you factor in the need to get a CR Pass and getting a car (x2+)

 

[FK4]

What's an example of a well devoped urban environment (in your opnion) that is free of panhandle, the homeless and addicted? And you don't get points if it's only free because police sweep daily.

It's not about successful development..its about supportive housing, support services, permisability, opportunity and the general parts of a society other than urban development

Yes clearly you are a champion of social causes. I agree with your causes. But that does not change the fact that a place that looks down and out IS down and out. This isnt about doing a Giuliani-esque sweep to make things look pretend ok. There are deep problems in our society and I am not speaking to some superficiality.

My theory is, what you're seeing in downtown Lowell is because it is not very developed you're ONLY seeing the negative elements. Even in the center of Boston's shopping areas these negative elements exist. But people generally feel safer when an area is crowded, they are also less aware individual elements when there is a huge crowd of the "positive" elements. The problem does not go away with successful urbanization, it gets diluted.

Yes this is the point. Boston is filled with homeless people and drug use yet it also thrives. Lowell does not. That is the point. You dont need to solve every deep societal social ill to have a thriving urban environment. And it does actually go beyond "dilution"; what I am describing in Lowell is not simply the absence of diluting factors because when you have nothing but vacant lots and an absence of anyone else around, the problems compound and concentrate. At any rate, the reason I posted was not to open up a platform for those who want to opine on the complexities and inequities in our society that lead to drug use, homelessness and crime but to point out that Lowell's downtown is not a successful urban landscape. Which it is not, for reasons already stated.

 

[BronsonShore]

Because there's no point. As expensive as Boston is, it's not like Lowell would be any cheaper when you factor in the need to get a CR Pass and getting a car (x2+)

Of course it would be cheaper. You still need to pay for transit and have a car in most of the area inside 128 anyway.

Never thought I’d see someone on this board of all places argue that “there’s no point” in expanding transit access…

 

[jklo]

Of course it would be cheaper. You still need to pay for transit and have a car in most of the area inside 128 anyway.

Go look up how much the CR costs. When you need 2 or 3 passes per household it starts to add up.

 

[BronsonShore]

Go look up how much the CR costs. When you need 2 or 3 passes per household it starts to add up.

I don’t need to look it up, I ride it every day. And riding it every day to and from a condo in Lowell would still be significantly cheaper overall than riding it every day to and from a condo in Roslindale. This really isn’t complicated.

 

[malabari]

Increasing the frequency of CR + lowering the cost to ride it, and also to park would help a lot. The cost does add up.

 

[FK4]

A nice flyover description of the Lord Overpass tear-down.

Yeah, learning more about this project, looked up some of the different maps on different ways this project could have unfolded. Seems really poor planning to not just blitz out all but maybe 2 lanes in each direction. Not sure what bus lanes add if they're only 3 blocks long, either... this particular problem seems classic in Massachusetts, where if there just happens to be some available space for something like a bus lane, the govt shoves one in there regardless of whether it's ever going to have any actual utility. Would have been much better to have crunched the roadway to the south as one plan showed, and open up a whole series of parcels on the north side. Bummer.

This is what it was

This is what is might have become (note the major reduction in the ROW width)

And unfortunately this is what is nearly finished

It's just such a waste. It doesnt matter how much smart transit bullshit like bike and bus lanes, and green this and that you put in. A big wide road ROW is a scar. They made the same mistake in front of the courthouse at Forest Hills. The ROW is the same width and it's that not much better than with the overpass. Just wasted lanes of pavement.