Manchester Infill & Small Developments

[FrankLloydMike]

I agree. About Burlington:

On the other end of the Church from which Church Street gets its name begins the North End, a ghetto of sorts (on the Burlington scale) begins behind it (known as the North End), which is probably as rough as any section of Portland or Manchester, and maybe rougher than anything Portland has (more like a stretch of Lewiston). I've always thought it curious, therefore, that of the streets running north-south (parallel to Church), many become one-way OUT of the North End at that perpendicular street (Pearl is it?). So, unless you want to get to the North End, you can, but if you're a tourist who knows nothing about the city, it is very difficult to stumble into that area, with exactly the effect you spoke of (which I think are deliberate).

I agree about Manch acting like the place it is. No more race to the bottom. Also, while I don't see TOD occurring at the mall anytime soon, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be advocated for and planned for, or it never will. I know you know this, but I'm stating it for the record. Places like that (and the Maine Mall, Burlington Mall, Portsmouth Mall, etc.) have no business existing. They are undesirable to urbanists, as well as those who love the stores in them. They are difficult to go to, unattractive, and all around inefficient. Not to mention all they are, essentially, is a traditional main street moved indoors. Many nowadays even have post office outlets in them. Take the roof off and move it a few blocks toward Elm Street and it would look like a traditional downtown.

That's interesting to note about Burlington. I've been in the North End before, but only with a friend who was living in Burlington at the time and with the express purpose of going to Junktiques--a junk store, so the location makes sense now. I remember it being a fairly run down place, but much less dense (and maybe with more trees) than some of the run down areas of Manchester. The North End also might explain why Burlington has nearly twice the rate of poverty (20.0%) of Manchester (10.6%), but why it seems to be less noticeable to the casual visitor. Though traveling east on Lake Ave there's a good example of what you mentioned in the North End of Burlington, where drivers are forced to turn left (north) onto Pine Street and back into downtown rather than straight toward the Hollow or right into Kalivas-Union, two of Manchester's neighborhoods with high concentrations of poverty.

This might belong in a different thread, but looking at Burlington's North End, two things struck me. The first is that, like Corey Square/Janeville (another area with higher-than-average rates of poverty in Manchester), it is a warren of irregularly angled streets in an otherwise mostly grid-based city. The other, though, is that the city stops after the North End--this really is an end. I'm wondering why that is--is there some geographical or historical reason for the city not continuing there that isn't evident on maps? As comparably enlightened as Burlington's planning may be, it certainly hasn't avoided sprawl elsewhere (the New North End and the entire neighboring town of South Burlington), so I'm assuming there's more to the city ending where it does than good land stewardship in the immediate postwar years, which seemed to be in short supply everywhere.

As far as planning for TOD and infill in the mall area, I agree. For better or worse, that's really the only choice at this point since the area is essentially completely built out. It's hardly a case of good urbanism or TOD, but the Shaw's plaza built near South Willow a few years ago includes three two-story retail buildings due to land constraints, and is adjacent to an as-yet-unfinished rail trail and where a prewar streetcar neighborhood and reasonably dense postwar neighborhoods blur.

In Bedford, a largely affluent suburb, the planning board has begun requiring projects along South River Road, a somewhat denser and less cluttered version of South Willow, to address pedestrian and eventual transit issues, and promoting mixed-use and infill development. When a developer argued recently that no one would be walking to the old house they were renovating into a restaurant, the planners said that that was the point: to make sure that new projects make it so that people will walk from nearby apartments in the future. Manchester needs to borrow that attitude, especially downtown and in the city center, but you're right--out at the mall, too.

 

[FrankLloydMike]

Also, great timing on this article given the discussion here. A couple civil engineers from Boston have a column in the UL today (buried on page C7) explaining the virtues and characteristics of complete streets. I hope a few Manchester residents (and maybe some aldermen even) dig into the paper today:

Complete streets for everyone
By DEAN L. GROVES, P.E. and DOUGLAS C. PRENTISS, P.E.,

Across the country, towns and cities are embracing the movement known as Complete Streets. This is a concept that promotes the design and construction of safe and efficient transportation networks at the local level — for all users, regardless of ability, and whether they choose to bike, walk, ride mass transit, or drive.

One feature found in most Complete Streets projects is the creation or enhancement of pedestrian and bicyclerelated features. These design features are aimed at getting individuals to leave behind their auto and use alternate modes of transportation.

In doing this, they create a reduction in the number and width of vehicle travel lanes, better defined of these lanes, bike lanes, increased room for the sidewalk length, connectivity for bicycles and pedestrians, and reduced and safer crossing distances for pedestrians.

Bicycle lanes typically measure four to six feet in width and are located on the right edge of the roadway (though they can be designated to the left of parking spaces or rightturn lanes). Bicyclists also are accommodated by wide curb lanes (which measure 13 to 15 or more feet in width), allowing the lane to be shared by motor vehicles and bicycles while giving sufficient room for automobiles to pass.

Advocates of wide curb lanes believe that wider lanes encourage bicycle riders to operate more like motor vehicles, which leads to more correct maneuvering at intersections.

Studies have shown that a bicycle lane’s stripes or pavement markings result in more predictable bicyclist riding behavior, fewer erratic driver maneuvers, and enhanced comfort levels for bicyclists and automobile operators.

Complete Streets policies can also help a community become more green. For example, projects are implementing porous pavement, which allows stormwater runoff to filter through to the ground more efficiently. In addition, sidewalk gardens featuring specially chosen plantings can lower nitrogen and phosphorus levels in the stormwater. These gardens can also include specially structured tree planting soils, containing grates and drains that irrigate the plantings; and engineered composite soils, which store and treat runoff.

Complete Streets projects promote the planting of trees and shrubs, which can improve air quality. Leaves filter the air by removing dust and other particulates and absorb carbon dioxide.

Trees and shrubs also help reduce thermal pollution and urban heat island effects, which are the harmful increase of water temperatures in rivers, streams, and lakes.

Stormwater runoff can get hotter as it washes across impervious surfaces. When the heated runoff enters a natural water source, it can negatively affect fish and other wildlife that need cold water to live and breed.

Complete Street projects can also include innovative technologies designed to make roadways safer and more environmentally friendly. These technologies include barcodes and radio-frequency identification tags, which provide smartphone users with access to information; on-street cameras and sensors, which analyze real-time traffic and parking trends; LED street lights, which offer longer life spans and lower energy demands; Leading pedestrian intervals (LPI’s) at traffic signals, which give the pedestrian the advance prior to the vehicle receiving the green indication; better timed traffic signals and improved or additional crossing times for pedestrians; countdown pedestrian signals; and GPS devices, which help provide more efficient travel.

The concept of Complete Streets is allowing municipal planners to create roadways that better serve a communi-ty’s residents and visitors. Not only are these streets becoming friendlier to all who use them, they are also becoming friendlier to the environment.

Dean L. Groves, P.E., is president and chief executive officer of Fay, Spofford & Thorndike, Inc. (FST). During his 38-year career, Groves has focused on transportation planning and environmental documentation in connection with complex transportation projects, and municipal engineering. Doug Prentiss, P.E., P. T.O.E, principal traffic engineer, is currently involved in a statewide Complete Streets initiative in Massachusetts.

 

[FrankLloydMike]

More photo updates on the Municipal Complex construction from the Highway Department's page:

Valley Street is mostly out of shot to the right; DPW bottom right; Maintenance garage bottom left; Police Department top right

Police Department from the rear--Valley St is to the right mostly out of shot, and Unacanoonuc mountains in the background

Maintenance garage--this is the first I've really seen of the exterior finishes

 

[Patrick]

I would contact the planning department of Manch and ask if FBCs had ever been presented to the Planning Board as a concept to be explored. That one photo above of the factories facing houses across the street defies a consistent neighborhood urban design--to the detriment of both areas. I'd still like to write a piece on this for your blog, but have been super busy. I gave a presentation on FBCs last night to Lewiston-Auburn's Planning Board (combined population 61,000, and a mill-town/city area) a news article about which is posted in the Portland ME New Construction thread, and it went over well. I'd be happy to give a similar one in Manchester. This could really help the place build on its strengths, and would go well with the complete streets article too.

 

[M. Brown]

I like this development. It good the that area IMO.

Also after seeing the Market Basket going up on Elm st, I have to say that it looks like its fits in nicely to its surroundings. I was a bit skeptical at first, but it looks good and is closer to the Elm St. than I thought it would be.

BTW...this is a bit off topic, I was driving on the airport connector road to see if there were any more developments, little did I know Obama coming was to town. I was driving on perimeter road and as soon as I drove past the runway, Air Force 1 flew right over me to land. I was not expecting that and it was really cool.

 

[FrankLloydMike]

I would contact the planning department of Manch and ask if FBCs had ever been presented to the Planning Board as a concept to be explored. That one photo above of the factories facing houses across the street defies a consistent neighborhood urban design--to the detriment of both areas. I'd still like to write a piece on this for your blog, but have been super busy. I gave a presentation on FBCs last night to Lewiston-Auburn's Planning Board (combined population 61,000, and a mill-town/city area) a news article about which is posted in the Portland ME New Construction thread, and it went over well. I'd be happy to give a similar one in Manchester. This could really help the place build on its strengths, and would go well with the complete streets article too.

I've been meaning to contact the Planning Department about that--and other issues--for awhile. I really need to get around to it.

Which photo are you referring to? I don't think there are any factories shown, though this area of town is scattered with several, beautiful old mills. They're less well-known and visible than the Millyard downtown, but there are many of them located along an old rail line through the neighborhood. In that sense, while I agree it's hardly desirable, there has always been a mix of industry and residential uses in this neighborhood. Now, most of the old mills have been put to more neighborly uses, with quite a few now serving as housing for different income levels.

The site of the Municipal Complex was previously the site of the Public Works, Highway, and Water Departments, and previously housed an old trash incinerator. From that standpoint, and from the presence the new buildings will present along Valley Street, which is a major road in the area, the project is actually a huge improvement over its predecessor.

That's obviously not to say that it couldn't be improved or that it's still probably not very desirable to live next door to the city's vehicle fleet maintenance building. And even with the improved buildings here and restored mills nearby, I don't think anyone would would say that this area of Manchester has a "consistent neighborhood urban design."

I'll have to read that article about the FBC presentation. I'd love to post a piece on FBC whenever you get a chance, but no rush. If you're open to it and it's fairly self-explanatory, I'd also love to post a copy of the presentation you gave in the meantime.

I'm not sure if there's any serious discussion about FBCs in Manchester (the city's website is really awful and provides very little information), but the suburb of Bedford held a planning board workshop over the summer in which FBCs were discussed for the South River Road area, which connects the town to Manchester, and as a regional approach. I skimmed through it several months ago, but can't recall exactly what was discussed--I'll have to look over it again.

 

[Patrick]

I've been meaning to contact the Planning Department about that--and other issues--for awhile. I really need to get around to it.

Which photo are you referring to? I don't think there are any factories shown, though this area of town is scattered with several, beautiful old mills. They're less well-known and visible than the Millyard downtown, but there are many of them located along an old rail line through the neighborhood. In that sense, while I agree it's hardly desirable, there has always been a mix of industry and residential uses in this neighborhood. Now, most of the old mills have been put to more neighborly uses, with quite a few now serving as housing for different income levels.

The site of the Municipal Complex was previously the site of the Public Works, Highway, and Water Departments, and previously housed an old trash incinerator. From that standpoint, and from the presence the new buildings will present along Valley Street, which is a major road in the area, the project is actually a huge improvement over its predecessor.

That's obviously not to say that it couldn't be improved or that it's still probably not very desirable to live next door to the city's vehicle fleet maintenance building. And even with the improved buildings here and restored mills nearby, I don't think anyone would would say that this area of Manchester has a "consistent neighborhood urban design."

I'll have to read that article about the FBC presentation. I'd love to post a piece on FBC whenever you get a chance, but no rush. If you're open to it and it's fairly self-explanatory, I'd also love to post a copy of the presentation you gave in the meantime.

I'm not sure if there's any serious discussion about FBCs in Manchester (the city's website is really awful and provides very little information), but the suburb of Bedford held a planning board workshop over the summer in which FBCs were discussed for the South River Road area, which connects the town to Manchester, and as a regional approach. I skimmed through it several months ago, but can't recall exactly what was discussed--I'll have to look over it again.

I was referring to this photo

What's up with the residential facing factory warehous?

 

[Patrick]

I remember seeing those streets in High School while touring Saint A's and thinking they were dumpy. Now I see nothing but potential and rich architectural history. Funny how perceptions change.

 

[FrankLloydMike]

What's up with the residential facing factory warehous?

Unfortunately, I think that's just how it's always been in this area. Again, not to say that getting a mixed-use development in there wouldn't be preferable, but that would just mean these garages would move elsewhere in the city. As it is, I think strengthening the street wall along Valley Street; and replacing dilapidated incinerators, garages and open parking for garbage trucks and the like with new buildings (and the increased jobs they'll house in the area) is a huge improvement.

I believe the existing garage (top center) will be demolished once the new one (bottom left) is completed, but I'm not sure what is going in in its place. The low, sort of industrial-looking building across the street from it (very top, center-right) is actually a bowling alley. To the bottom left of the photo, you can see that the area is also home to scattered private industrial uses. These are the remnants--fewer than in the past--of the industry located along the abandoned rail line, which is part of the planned trail network for the city.

Valley Street, which the new PDW and Police Department will front (and align with neighboring, older buildings) was previously fronted with just an iron fence. You can see how it looked just a few years ago here, so I think the new buildings--even with their heavy use--will be a major improvement.

I'm assuming there must be an area like this somewhere in Portland--where the DPW and the like is located. I know in Cambridge, the DPW is in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Much of Allston in Boston and similar neighborhoods is a mix of residential and some heavier, sometimes industrial uses along old rail lines. Obviously Hayward Street, where residences face the back side of the Municipal Complex (and where my dad lived for the first several years of his life), will never be the most desirable place to live in the city, but my guess is that the residents there would rather have a well-kept, landscaped back of the DPW complex (and hopefully well-detailed and maintained public buildings) rather than what was there before, or the back of a shopping center, which sadly would be more likely on this huge plot than a mixed-used development.

Another odd thing about the neighborhood near here (the area is officially part of the Kalivas-Union, Hallsville and Somerville neighborhoods), is that Valley Street is not now and never really has been a neighborhood center. A few blocks to its north is the Hollow, which has immense potential but is currently in need of major beautification, and a few blocks to the south is the stretch of Wilson and Somerville Streets, which were traditionally more of a neighborhood center for that area, and which still has more locally-focused businesses. Valley Street used to have a rail line running along its south side (which is why there are large setbacks even at older buildings), so I think it always served more as a service road. It could certainly be improved, but I think it makes more sense to focus major neighborhood revitalization efforts at the Hollow and Somerville St.

I remember seeing those streets in High School while touring Saint A's and thinking they were dumpy. Now I see nothing but potential and rich architectural history. Funny how perceptions change.

What were you doing in the Valley Street area while looking at St. A's?!

 

[FrankLloydMike]

Farnum Center seeks move to Queen City Ave.

Substance abuse facility:

Proposal before the Planning Board calls for opening residential treament at Queen City Motor Inn

By KATHRYN MARCHOCKI

New Hampshire Union Leader

MANCHESTER — The Farnum Center wants to relocate its in-patient substance abuse and alcohol treatment center from its existing downtown site to an expanded center proposed for Queen City Avenue.

The Farnum Center has a lease with developer Richard “Dick” Anagnost to move its 30-day residential treatment facility to the Queen City Motor Inn pending city approval of Anagnost’s proposal to convert the 140 Queen City Ave. motel into a 71-bed rehabilitation center, Easter Seals president and chief executive officer Larry J. Gammon told the Planning Board Thursday.

The move would enable The Farnum Center, which is a subsidiary of Easter Seals, to expand the number of clients it can treat on a monthly basis, Easter Seals vice-president of substance abuse services Cheryl Wilkie said. The center currently can treat 33 patients monthly and has a waiting list of about 90, she said.

“We get calls from people every day begging for a bed. They are in agony,” Gammon said after the hearing.

“Alcohol and drug abuse is a serious issue, not only in the state, but throughout the country. Farnum has a very, very good track record in not only treating people, but returning them to the community,” Gammon told city planners.

For 35 years, The Farnum Center has operated its drug and alcohol treatment center in the aging brick building at Hanover and Union streets that was deeded to it by the former Sacred Heart Hospital, Gammon said.

In that time, it has treated hundreds of people — most of them indigent. And the center has had little, if any, problems that prompted police response, unlike the Queen City Motor Inn where he said police were called 56 times last year.

“I think we will bring a really good change to the neighborhood,” Gammon said.

If city planners approve the conditional use permit that Anagnost is seeking, Easter Seals would sell the existing Farnum Center building on Hanover Street, he added.

In both cases, the properties would remain on city tax rolls even though both Easter Seals and Farnum Center are non-profit organizations, Gammon said.

This is because the Farnum Center would lease the Queen City Avenue site while Anagnost would remain the owner, he explained. The renovations Anagnost plans for the site also will increase tax revenues it would generate for the city, he said.

The $3.2 million renovation of the Queen City Motel into a rehabilitation center with 24-hour nursing and security staff also would continue the revitalization of south Manchester that began with last spring’s opening of a $100 million medical facility, Anagnost has said, referring to The Elliot at River’s Edge Ambulatory Care Center.

Project proponents met last week with abutters to explain the project and received “99 percent favorable feedback,” Gammon said.

No one from the public spoke in opposition to the project Thursday.

Nathan Sharp, who lives next door at 45 Kennedy St., spoke for his neighbors in support of the project.

“I really hope this goes through because it will be an improvement to the property and it will be an improvement to my property,” Sharp told the board.

Noting difficulty accessing the site from Queen City Avenue westbound, planners asked the project engineer to provide them more details on traffic access to the site in time for its March 15 meeting.

This sounds like it will be an improvement over the old Queen City Motel on a fairly tough site. I'm still hoping to see more mixed-use development on the north side of Queen City Ave, and redevelopment of the Bakersville/Rivers Edge neighborhood there, between the Elliot and Elm St.

On a side note, the move of the rehab clinic will open up the four-story, brick apartment building at Union & Hanover St for redevelopment. I'd love to see this restored and developed into desirable apartments for people looking for downtown housing.

 

[Patrick]

This sounds like it will be an improvement over the old Queen City Motel on a fairly tough site. I'm still hoping to see more mixed-use development on the north side of Queen City Ave, and redevelopment of the Bakersville/Rivers Edge neighborhood there, between the Elliot and Elm St.

On a side note, the move of the rehab clinic will open up the four-story, brick apartment building at Union & Hanover St for redevelopment. I'd love to see this restored and developed into desirable apartments for people looking for downtown housing.

Looks like an attractive building. The area around it needs to be appropriately filled in. The one story building on the corner down the block looks unattractive, even though you can see the downtown in the background. If the street was full of similar structures, I could see it really taking off.

 

[FrankLloydMike]

Looks like an attractive building. The area around it needs to be appropriately filled in. The one story building on the corner down the block looks unattractive, even though you can see the downtown in the background. If the street was full of similar structures, I could see it really taking off.

Agreed. I think renovating the apartments there for higher-end rentals/condos could help lead that. Of course, adopting FBC for the area would also help. Still, that stretch needs a jump start--it's a short walk from downtown and only a block from some of the fanciest restaurants in the city, as well as being located across from an attractive old church and park--I think having a desirable apartment building there could help lead to future redevelopment nearby.

 

[Patrick]

Agreed. I think renovating the apartments there for higher-end rentals/condos could help lead that. Of course, adopting FBC for the area would also help. Still, that stretch needs a jump start--it's a short walk from downtown and only a block from some of the fanciest restaurants in the city, as well as being located across from an attractive old church and park--I think having a desirable apartment building there could help lead to future redevelopment nearby.

I just think that, until it is more connected, the best that could be hoped for is the artists and other low income creatives that generate the interest in the street that later leads to high end investment. I could be wrong, but that's how I see things happening. Artists don't mind walking a block of blight or less than appealing streetscape, the high end folks on the other hand usually do (I would assume), because they can pay to be places where they don't have to. Either way, I agree that is a handsome building full of potential.

Even short of adopting an FBC, just modifying zoning to have minimums as well as maximums (which FBC does, but there's more to it) would help. I think the strategy should be to aggressively market key "places" in a city--anchor sites, if you will--not just any old site. Some econ dev people just think any development is good, but I think if you filled in this street, a place would be created and then begin to work for itself. The same doesn't happen in green field or new development sites, or suburban sites on pads of a parking lot.

This is a neat looking stretch, as show, though.

 

[MonopolyBag]

Not really a development, but Manch is getting single stream recycling, about time IMO.

Salem NH voted against Curb Side pick-up... which I was for. Sale also voted against a million other things that I think should have passed. Continuing to upgrade our elementary schools for one thing.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Not really a development, but Manch is getting single stream recycling, about time IMO.

Salem NH voted against Curb Side pick-up... which I was for. Sale also voted against a million other things that I think should have passed. Continuing to upgrade our elementary schools for one thing.

Live free or die.

 

[Patrick]

That's interesting to note about Burlington. I've been in the North End before, but only with a friend who was living in Burlington at the time and with the express purpose of going to Junktiques--a junk store, so the location makes sense now. I remember it being a fairly run down place, but much less dense (and maybe with more trees) than some of the run down areas of Manchester. The North End also might explain why Burlington has nearly twice the rate of poverty (20.0%) of Manchester (10.6%), but why it seems to be less noticeable to the casual visitor. Though traveling east on Lake Ave there's a good example of what you mentioned in the North End of Burlington, where drivers are forced to turn left (north) onto Pine Street and back into downtown rather than straight toward the Hollow or right into Kalivas-Union, two of Manchester's neighborhoods with high concentrations of poverty.

This might belong in a different thread, but looking at Burlington's North End, two things struck me. The first is that, like Corey Square/Janeville (another area with higher-than-average rates of poverty in Manchester), it is a warren of irregularly angled streets in an otherwise mostly grid-based city. The other, though, is that the city stops after the North End--this really is an end. I'm wondering why that is--is there some geographical or historical reason for the city not continuing there that isn't evident on maps? As comparably enlightened as Burlington's planning may be, it certainly hasn't avoided sprawl elsewhere (the New North End and the entire neighboring town of South Burlington), so I'm assuming there's more to the city ending where it does than good land stewardship in the immediate postwar years, which seemed to be in short supply everywhere.

As far as planning for TOD and infill in the mall area, I agree. For better or worse, that's really the only choice at this point since the area is essentially completely built out. It's hardly a case of good urbanism or TOD, but the Shaw's plaza built near South Willow a few years ago includes three two-story retail buildings due to land constraints, and is adjacent to an as-yet-unfinished rail trail and where a prewar streetcar neighborhood and reasonably dense postwar neighborhoods blur.

In Bedford, a largely affluent suburb, the planning board has begun requiring projects along South River Road, a somewhat denser and less cluttered version of South Willow, to address pedestrian and eventual transit issues, and promoting mixed-use and infill development. When a developer argued recently that no one would be walking to the old house they were renovating into a restaurant, the planners said that that was the point: to make sure that new projects make it so that people will walk from nearby apartments in the future. Manchester needs to borrow that attitude, especially downtown and in the city center, but you're right--out at the mall, too.

Sorry Mike I didn’t see this post until today. I’ve wondered about Burlington’s high poverty rate too. Portland’s is 14% and I’m surprised Manchester’s is only 10%--I would have pictured higher than Burlington simply because of its status as post-industrial town (that’s usually how things go there). I bet a few decades ago it was a lot higher, so good to hear it’s low now.

I almost think I remember a reason why the North End ends where it does, but it has been years now since I’ve lived there, and I cannot recall why that is. I’d like to know if you ever figure it out. And you’re right about Burlington not avoiding sprawl—in fact it was sprawl that led to the re-investment in the downtown (not a great downtown which prevented sprawl). In that sense, maybe sprawl is the best thing that ever happened to Burlington!

One more thing: if I recall correctly, the North End is Burlington’s densest neighborhood, which is in large part why the average density of Burlington trumps both Portland’s and Manchester’s. As a student, I didn’t spend much time there (essentially, the local ‘hood).
That’s cool Bedford is on board with smart planning, and I like the planners’ response “that’s the point.” Really, what we see today, is that the affluent neighborhoods are embracing urbanism and the middle class and impoverished neighborhoods are sorely lacking a huge amenity—walkability, keeping them fat and displaced.

 

[Patrick]

I'm assuming there must be an area like this somewhere in Portland--where the DPW and the like is located.

Yep. Bayside. I don't really care about the mix of use, but I found the urban design (lack thereof) startling (which is not to say it doesn't exist nearly everywhere, including Portland). Those uses may mesh well (or well enough), but the design of residential houses fronting on a garage is odd, to me.

What were you doing in the Valley Street area while looking at St. A's?!

I have no idea. We got lost several times and also tried to find the mall. Is this en route to the mall? It may have been another time we were down there looking for my wife's prom dress, too. I can't remember.

 

[Seanflynn78]

Patrick you are so right regarding walkablity. I live in Manchester, NH and we are currently looking to buy a home in the city. In Manchester the ghetto/hood areas of the city are in maybe 1/4 of the city. But the "sketchy" or "ghetto" sections of Manch. are right off Elm street and of course close to the river where the Mills use to thrive, which is why the west side gets the bad rap.The west side of Manchester gets a terrible rap even though there are very affordable and beautiful sections which is a good chunk of the city. Over by Saint. A's college is a quiet and clean neighborhood which seems to be thriving.
The central part of Manch. is very urban but also industerial since it was created before any zoning existed. As for affordablilty Manchester is a great city to live in since you can find a home below 180k that is move in ready. My wife teaches in Nashua, a city that homes cost about 20% more than Manch. since Nashua is closer to Boston for commuters. Personly I would like to live in North End of Manchester or sections of the east side or west side. Manchester actually has a ton of young people moving to the area from Boston since it is so much cheaper than Mass. and you can still get to Boston in under an hour. This blurb is all over the place, but I'm glad to see Manchester finally getting the respect it deserves when it comes to a safe community minus the awful shooting that happend earlier this week to a city cop.

 

[FrankLloydMike]

Patrick you are so right regarding walkablity. I live in Manchester, NH and we are currently looking to buy a home in the city. In Manchester the ghetto/hood areas of the city are in maybe 1/4 of the city. But the "sketchy" or "ghetto" sections of Manch. are right off Elm street and of course close to the river where the Mills use to thrive, which is why the west side gets the bad rap.The west side of Manchester gets a terrible rap even though there are very affordable and beautiful sections which is a good chunk of the city. Over by Saint. A's college is a quiet and clean neighborhood which seems to be thriving.
The central part of Manch. is very urban but also industerial since it was created before any zoning existed. As for affordablilty Manchester is a great city to live in since you can find a home below 180k that is move in ready. My wife teaches in Nashua, a city that homes cost about 20% more than Manch. since Nashua is closer to Boston for commuters. Personly I would like to live in North End of Manchester or sections of the east side or west side. Manchester actually has a ton of young people moving to the area from Boston since it is so much cheaper than Mass. and you can still get to Boston in under an hour. This blurb is all over the place, but I'm glad to see Manchester finally getting the respect it deserves when it comes to a safe community minus the awful shooting that happend earlier this week to a city cop.

The point about the run-down neighborhoods in Manchester being right around the downtown is key. To an outsider--even to someone from surrounding towns--I bet this often leads to the misconception that all of Manchester is a dump outside of Elm Street and the Millyard. You can read it in comments on the UL and elsewhere from people in North Country towns with way higher rates of poverty than Manchester, who say the place is crime-ridden or dumpy or whatever.

Of course, the recent shooting aside, Manchester is an incredibly safe city for its size. Compared to walking around downtown Hartford or somewhere like that, I've never felt unsafe in Manchester. Even the "ghetto" areas of the city are nothing like Albany Ave in Hartford or other down-and-out neighborhoods in other cities. They may not be desirable places to live, they may be full of vinyl-clad triple-deckers owned by absentee slumlords, but they are not nearly as unsafe or dumpy as similar neighborhoods in similar cities.

That said, those neighborhoods need to change--for better or worse, to be gentrified--if that (mis)perception of Manchester is to change, and if the city is going to be able to attract young professionals and others looking to live near downtown. With the burgeoning college scene downtown (thanks largely to NHIA, but also to UNH-M and to the college students coming downtown from the suburban campuses like St. Anselm and SNHU), Manchester is poised to increase its young professional/creative class population... if it plays its cards right. Look at Portland, where young professionals/creative class/hipsters/whatever are taking over formerly down-and-out neighborhoods like Munjoy Hill.

Granted, the neighborhoods closest to downtown--Kalivas/Union and Corey Square just to the east of Pine Street roughly--don't have the bay views of Munjoy Hill. But on the West Side as you mentioned, Notre Dame and Rimmon Heights are perched up on a rise overlooking downtown. Looking west, they have great sunset views over Rock Rimmon and the Uncanoonucs. I'd say that the neighborhoods just to the east of downtown get a worse rap than the West Side--Kelley Street is seeing a bit of a renaissance, and poverty and run-down buildings aren't nearly as prominent or as concentrated as they are in the Hollow at Lake Ave & Hall St, for instance. (Though I believe the City has plans to finally implement some of the neighborhood revitalization initiatives there that were started in Rimmon Heights as a pilot a few years ago.)

But the thing is that Manchester's really desirable urban neighborhoods--the North End, Hanover Hill, much of Straw/Smyth--are further from downtown. And to get to downtown, you usually have to pass through less desirable neighborhoods. That's what kills the urbanity--if you have to walk through undesirable, run-down neighborhoods even if you don't feel unsafe, you're probably not going to walk from your place to downtown. Couple in a lackluster bus system, and it's clear that even urban neighborhoods are going to be pretty auto-dominant. So without walkers, it's hard for nice shops and cafes to pop up along local streets in neighborhood centers where there's no parking and you get walkable, leafy streets with beautiful old houses, but no sense of a neighborhood.

My mom used to live just north of Webster Street, west of Union in the North End. Moving there (half-time) from Bedford in 8th grade, I loved being able to walk or bike to the little grocery store (Bunny's) or to the park. But as I got older, I was always amazed that there was no coffee shop or bistro or whatever, which I figured would make a killing based on the demographics up there. The zoning has been changed along Webster to encourage that now, but I think until there is something more interesting to see and do on the way between the North End and downtown, there aren't going to be a ton of walkers. And with no parking on Webster St and (good) restrictions prohibiting parking in front of new businesses there, it's going to be hard for a place to start up based mostly on local foot traffic.

I think that's all going to change as you said, and I think the perception of Manchester is changing. But it needs to make some policy changes and some investments in order to make the city a place that people are actively choosing to move to. I also love how affordable Manchester is--how you can find an affordable, simple Victorian in good shape with a small yard, or a two- or three-family on a leafy street within easy walking distance of downtown. But right now, Manchester is seen too much as a place that's great to visit for a ballgame or for dinner, and still not enough as a great place to move to for an urban lifestyle, or to raise a family in a traditional neighborhood.

A lot of the development and investment has been in downtown, the Millyard and now even down at the Rivers Edge. And that all makes sense--I think Hartford shows that it's much easier to build a city from a revitalized downtown than from pockets of nice neighborhoods at the fringes. But the type of new apartments going into the Millyard or around Elm Street seem geared toward young professionals who will probably eventually move to Bedford. Manchester needs to give them good options to stay near downtown, even if they eventually want a small yard or patio.

 

[FrankLloydMike]

I also just wanted to add that even some of the less-desirable neighborhoods in Manchester are full of old buildings that can easily be restored and renovated. Obviously, the trick is getting people with the means to restore and upgrade them, either as owner-occupants or income properties (or in many multi-units, owner-occupied income properties).

NeighborWorks Greater Manchester showed how successfully this can be done with a handful of previously shabby Victorian-era houses and apartments in the West Granite section of Piscataquog, probably the largest concentration of poverty on the West Side. They bought, renovated and restored the buildings, and then put them on the market, both to physically improve the neighborhood and help to attract owner-occupants in an area where absentee landlords are prominent.

Something like this--on a similarly or even smaller scale--could easily happen in similar neighborhoods near downtown if people see the areas as likely to improve, or if they see public investment in infrastructure and so on in the neighborhoods.

Here are the buildings that NeighborWorks fixed up. If you click on the images, you can see how different they look compared to what existed when Google did street view in the area: