Marine Industrial Park | Seaport

sidewalks

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My mistake on the control of the undeveloped land that is controlled by Massport in the Industrial park. That said, the BPDA's own report identifies the declining viability of marine related industrial uses. That Massport would commission studies that suggest long term prospects for port related activity in the area is hardly surprising. I wouldn't put much stock in a report commission by an entity whose very mission is port activity...they and their consultants are incentivized to justify their existence. Either way, the proof is in the pudding...Kohler, Au Bon Pain, Reebok, Lab space, breweries, hvac fabrication...all these could be located anywhere. They could be located in an industrial park in Canton rather than on some of the most valuable real estate on the east coast. At the end of the day, there are higher and better uses for the land. I'll leave it at that.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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My mistake on the control of the undeveloped land that is controlled by Massport in the Industrial park. That said, the BPDA's own report identifies the declining viability of marine related industrial uses. That Massport would commission studies that suggest long term prospects for port related activity in the area is hardly surprising. I wouldn't put much stock in a report commission by an entity whose very mission is port activity...they and their consultants are incentivized to justify their existence. Either way, the proof is in the pudding...Kohler, Au Bon Pain, Reebok, Lab space, breweries, hvac fabrication...all these could be located anywhere. They could be located in an industrial park in Canton rather than on some of the most valuable real estate on the east coast. At the end of the day, there are higher and better uses for the land. I'll leave it at that.
They have studied it! What do you think these long-range plans of theirs that we've been begging you to please look at this last page even are?!?!


Holy moly...is this performance art?!?! :unsure:
 

sidewalks

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They have studied it! What do you think these long-range plans of theirs that we've been begging you to please look at this last page even are?!?!


Holy moly...is this performance art?!?! :unsure:
I've read some of their reports...in 2002 they say there is current demand...and yet here we are two decades later and nothing has changed. https://www.massport.com/media/2870...atives-analysis-executive-summary-12-2002.pdf What the hell are they going to say? 'Nah, look guys what can I tell you...there isn't much demand out there and we are going to futz around with this for another two decades then stuff some lab buildings in there, maybe see if some HVAC guys from Wilmington want to relocate and put a suburban parking lot around a plumbing showroom that could just as well be in Saugus'

What we have is vastly underutilized land, with poor planning in one of the most valuable urban centers in the country. Primarily that's because Massport is run by political hacks who are handsomely paid and given generous pensions to do little if anything at all.
 

chrisbrat

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They have studied it! What do you think these long-range plans of theirs that we've been begging you to please look at this last page even are?!?!


Holy moly...is this performance art?!?! :unsure:
Some people take offense when repeatedly proven to be wrong, rather than gracefully accept the corrections and adjust their viewpoints in turn.
 

kmp1284

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Either way, the proof is in the pudding...Kohler, Au Bon Pain, Reebok, Lab space, breweries, hvac fabrication...all these could be located anywhere. They could be located in an industrial park in Canton rather than on some of the most valuable real estate on the east coast. At the end of the day, there are higher and better uses for the land. I'll leave it at that.
Everywhere else in Boston ... law firms, consultancies and money managers ... almost all of these jobs could be done from office parks in the burbs(and people’s living rooms and basements).

The argument that these industrial and maritime jobs can be performed elsewhere is an odd one to be making at a time when the white collar firms necessary to support your dream of waterfront condos are slashing their footprint and potentially not requiring people to live in such close proximity to the workplace.
 

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Some people take offense when repeatedly proven to be wrong, rather than gracefully accept the corrections and adjust their viewpoints in turn.
Not even that. There are many alternative explanations you could posit to Massport's report conclusions. Their case, while compellingly laid-out, isn't ironclad. But that would...you know...require citing a shred of offered evidence and then counterpointing it with other evidence.

Nope. "I've read some of their reports" and here's a URL proving that Google works...but Imma just keep bleating on about the same thing in the same contextual vacuum instead of demonstrating readily-available applied knowledge.


At least the replies rubbernecking around this distraction today are offering up some useful info. I had no idea before it was mentioned here that locally-sourced sushi was an air freight moneymaker, for instance. That's...like...a genuinely really neat thing to know about our local economy.
 

sidewalks

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No, market demand is what locates law offices consultancies, and other white-collar jobs in places like downtown Boston. An artificial market regulation is what results in Au Bon Pain and a Kohler showroom with a suburban parking lot ending up in the Seaport. Yes I do suppose that urban living will be making a comeback and people will Yes I do suppose that urban living will be making a come back and people will return to work downtown if not in the same volume as previously.

But to that point the entire Seaport could have been zoned for the same type of light industrial that we now see in the Marine industrial Park period it’s not difficult to imagine a situation in the 1960s and 70s where the city decided that that would be a proper use of that land as well. I think when given the choice most people would choose the Seaport we have today rather than an extension of light industrial. At its essence that is my preference.
 
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sidewalks

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Not even that. There are many alternative explanations you could posit to Massport's report conclusions. Their case, while compellingly laid-out, isn't ironclad. But that would...you know...require citing a shred of offered evidence and then counterpointing it with other evidence.

Nope. "I've read some of their reports" and here's a URL proving that Google works...but Imma just keep bleating on about the same thing in the same contextual vacuum instead of demonstrating readily-available applied knowledge.


At least the replies rubbernecking around this distraction today are offering up some useful info. I had no idea before it was mentioned here that locally-sourced sushi was an air freight moneymaker, for instance. That's...like...a genuinely really neat thing to know about our local economy.
Well there’s one thing I haven’t been up until now which is an arrogant prick about it which you’ve been consistently throughout this as well as insulting. I acknowledged I made a mistake on the Massport/BPDA control issue. You keep referencing these reports and the conclusions they’ve drawn but you haven’t cited specific information from any of them nor provided any links to those reports so please what the hell are you talking about?
 

sidewalks

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In addition I cited specific conclusions from the BPDA report of 2017 which updated their master plan which cited a declining demand for marine related industrial use.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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In addition I cited specific conclusions from the BPDA report of 2017 which updated their master plan which cited a declining demand for marine related industrial use.
And why would the BDPA be in the business of wasting its money and breath arguing for land usage changes over land which they do not have any oversight? Easy...because they aren't talking about Massport Marine Terminal in the slightest when they say that. They're talking about the parcels in the neighborhood for which the BDPA has some say in the matter...which is decidedly a subset of the neighborhood, and most definitely not the undeveloped acreage situated at 24-30 Fid Kennedy Ave. BDPA's parcels are concentrated along Drydock Ave. by the Design Center...on the opposite side of the neighborhood. Where...duh!...land usage is already very much mixed-use.

Their study was not conducted as some noble entry into the University Debate Club sweepstakes, Deepwater Port subdivision, as if it were designed to compel other-party Massport to adopt BDPA's viewpoint on wholly unrelated properties. It was specific to the properties BDPA has any direct control and influence over...which aren't even on the same side of the whole-peninsula -sized "Flynn" Park as Marine T. They'd quite literally be abdicating their basic-most responsibility to the Taxpayers of City of Boston throwing good money after out-of-jurisdiction irrelevance like that. And be wasting a whole lot of breath since Massport has had its mind made up for decades now about where it anticipates needs.


(^Offered up for at-large discussion nugget re: scopes of respective dev studies, since it's beyond clear that attempting good-faith exchange one-on-one is an exercise in futility.)
 

sidewalks

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And why would the BDPA be in the business of wasting its money and breath arguing for land usage changes over land which they do not have any oversight? Easy...because they aren't talking about Massport Marine Terminal in the slightest when they say that. They're talking about the parcels in the neighborhood for which the BDPA has some say in the matter...which is decidedly a subset of the neighborhood, and most definitely not the undeveloped acreage situated at 24-30 Fid Kennedy Ave. BDPA's parcels are concentrated along Drydock Ave. by the Design Center...on the opposite side of the neighborhood. Where...duh!...land usage is already very much mixed-use.

Their study was not conducted as some noble entry into the University Debate Club sweepstakes, Deepwater Port subdivision, as if it were designed to compel other-party Massport to adopt BDPA's viewpoint on wholly unrelated properties. It was specific to the properties BDPA has any direct control and influence over...which aren't even on the same side of the whole-peninsula -sized "Flynn" Park as Marine T. They'd quite literally be abdicating their basic-most responsibility to the Taxpayers of City of Boston throwing good money after out-of-jurisdiction irrelevance like that. And be wasting a whole lot of breath since Massport has had its mind made up for decades now about where it anticipates needs.


(^Offered up for at-large discussion nugget re: scopes of respective dev studies, since it's beyond clear that attempting good-faith exchange one-on-one is an exercise in futility.)
No the BPDA said that marine related industrial uses are in declining demand. That is a market observation not a parcel specific analysis.

you can bet that if there were demand for marine related industrial space we would not have an HVAC fabrication facility in 157,000 sq ft on the waterfront.
 

Suffolk 83

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In addition I cited specific conclusions from the BPDA report of 2017 which updated their master plan which cited a declining demand for marine related industrial use.
That report didn't know widett circle was kaput as we know it
 

sidewalks

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No the BPDA said that marine related industrial uses are in declining demand. That is a market observation not a parcel specific analysis.

you can bet that if there were demand for marine related industrial space we would not have an HVAC fabrication facility in 157,000 sq ft on the waterfront.
Regardless it’s all a moot point. Massport has squandered the resource for the last 20 years and they control it until 2070...during which time I would expect results as underwhelming as we’ve seen so far.
 

Equilibria

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Just to point out: the question of why the land has been underdeveloped is addressed in the Globe article itself. It was tied up in an ill-fated development deal. Massport has a ton of land in the Seaport and has been aggressively developing it with some well-received projects (401 Congress, the Omni) after being on the vanguard of mixed-use in the Seaport in prior decades. In short: if they thought mixed use was the best use of this land, they'd do it.

The intended use of the land is as a working port. Unless we're planning to build up the Port of Salem or build one out on a harbor barrier, this is one of a very few places in the region that these uses are possible.
 

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sidewalks

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This is huge news. Gingko-Bioworks is a cell programming company that is at the forefront of medicine and is absolutely exploding with growth. This may be a harbinger for much more growth in the area.

Hey this is great and all but it belies the fact that this is a “marine industrial park”. It’s a joke. We are rapidly creating not a light industrial area for marine industry, but a bland biotech park hodgepodge. And it continues, of course, to exacerbate the traffic issue that plagues the area. Who knows, maybe the feds can give us some money for real transportation solution with the new stimulus spending.
 

shmessy

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Hey this is great and all but it belies the fact that this is a “marine industrial park”. It’s a joke. We are rapidly creating not a light industrial area for marine industry, but a bland biotech park hodgepodge. And it continues, of course, to exacerbate the traffic issue that plagues the area. Who knows, maybe the feds can give us some money for real transportation solution with the new stimulus spending.
I see that Flynn Industrial Park as The Seaport circa 2010. Its early in the work in progress.

I fully agree with you on the transportation problem there. But 20 years ago we all would have been impressed if there was paved road all the way out there.
 

stellarfun

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What Vertex proposed in 2018

Phase 1
 Placement of concrete “Jersey” barriers and steel and concrete bollards to delineate loading and non‐loading areas to protect existing and proposed equipment;
 Minor building modifications to accommodate the installation of three new loading bay doors and the removal of four existing roll‐up doors;
 Installation of new steel stair and ladder on the existing building façade;
 Installation of new ground‐mounted steel dunnage and an above‐grade Air‐ Cooled Chiller;

Future Phase
 Installation of a new pad‐mounted, emergency generator at grade level;
 Installation of a lab waste storage;
 Installation of a new ground‐level trash compactor;
 

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