MBTA Buses & Infrastructure

[HelloBostonHi]

They really just need to block off a loading zone on Summer St (near where the 7, 11, 4 buses stop at South Station) and run a Logan Express that leaves on a clock-facing schedule every 15 minutes.

- Beats the crap out of dragging luggage through fare gates and down stairs to access the SL1 platform.
- No mode-switch or seaport zig-zag required. Turn onto Congress st, right on W service rd, and right onto the I-90 HOV lane. On the return trip, take the Congress st exit, head back up Congress st towards downtown. The SL1 will never even come close to competing with cars in travel times, while this will be competitive.
- Relieves the overcrowded SL1 and SL Transitway tunnel for seaport commuters & SL3.

It's been proposed a few times, it would also eliminate the need for the difficult to procure and aging dual modes that are limiting the Ts ability to run more frequent SL service. However, so far it's been shot down because of potential customer confusion of when SL1 buses will be arriving at surface level vs underground and how to direct people to know which way to go, and also how to maintain connections for Seaport riders to Logan.

 

[jass]

Why doesn't the Silver Line show up as a Transit line on Google Maps' Transit layer?

AFAIK, Google doesnt show any BRT line on their transit layers - not even in cities like Mexico City that have real BRT. They also dont highlight ferries, even in cities where Ferries are a critical part of transit. Nor do they show commuter rail.

 

[sneijder]

It's been proposed a few times, it would also eliminate the need for the difficult to procure and aging dual modes that are limiting the Ts ability to run more frequent SL service. However, so far it's been shot down because of potential customer confusion of when SL1 buses will be arriving at surface level vs underground and how to direct people to know which way to go, and also how to maintain connections for Seaport riders to Logan.

SL1 should stay intact. The surface-level express would be an additional "premium" express service run by MassPort. During peak times, SL1 gets so packed at SS that no one at courthouse or WTC can get on anyway. The express would divert some of those SS riders and free up room.

 

[HenryAlan]

AFAIK, Google doesnt show any BRT line on their transit layers - not even in cities like Mexico City that have real BRT. They also dont highlight ferries, even in cities where Ferries are a critical part of transit. Nor do they show commuter rail.

Interestingly, though, it does show the tunnel, labelled as Silver Line Way, it just doesn't identify it as a transit line.

 

[Shepard]

SL1 should stay intact. The surface-level express would be an additional "premium" express service run by MassPort. During peak times, SL1 gets so packed at SS that no one at courthouse or WTC can get on anyway. The express would divert some of those SS riders and free up room.

No, I'm inclined to say that this should entirely replace SL1. But also, instead of sneijder's routing (which I agree is the fastest) I'd stay on Summer and get onto 90 at D Street. That way you can have a two other pickup/dropoff point in the Seaport, well-spaced: at A Street and at BCEC.

 

[fattony]

It's been proposed a few times, it would also eliminate the need for the difficult to procure and aging dual modes that are limiting the Ts ability to run more frequent SL service. However, so far it's been shot down because of potential customer confusion of when SL1 buses will be arriving at surface level vs underground and how to direct people to know which way to go, and also how to maintain connections for Seaport riders to Logan.

SL1 should stay intact. The surface-level express would be an additional "premium" express service run by MassPort. During peak times, SL1 gets so packed at SS that no one at courthouse or WTC can get on anyway. The express would divert some of those SS riders and free up room.

Yes, just brand the surface route as "Logan Express - South Station" and leave SL1 exactly the way it is. We can simply add a "Logan Express" icon to the MBTA spider map to indicate that is it available at Back Bay, South Station, hopefully North Station, etc.

The SL1 is completely busted as a means to get to Logan. It desperately needs help. I live and work on the Red Line and I don't even consider taking SL1 to the airport anymore. I do take it back from the airport because reliability is not an issue.

 

[jass]

I agree with this Logan Express talk.

I think too much of the Logan Express network is focused on suburban folks instead of people in the city.

Yes, you can get to Logan using a combo of trains and buses. But when you have bags + its very hot or very cold, most people opt for an Uber.

Having direct Logan Express routes from the city makes sense.

What about a Logan Express that starts at Park Plaza (by Arlington) and runs down Stuart Street and Essex Street to South Station before going express to the airport?

Hits 5-6 major hotels, green line, orange line, SL4/5, and then south station.

Thats a big improvement for folks along the Green and Orange who would have tot transfer to the blue or red, and then a bus to reach the terminal.

 

[whighlander]

Yes, just brand the surface route as "Logan Express - South Station" and leave SL1 exactly the way it is. We can simply add a "Logan Express" icon to the MBTA spider map to indicate that is it available at Back Bay, South Station, hopefully North Station, etc.

The SL1 is completely busted as a means to get to Logan. It desperately needs help. I live and work on the Red Line and I don't even consider taking SL1 to the airport anymore. I do take it back from the airport because reliability is not an issue.

FT -- SL would have plenty of capacity to service the Seaport if:

• It ran to Silver Line Way underground [Dig Under D] most of the vehicles looped around and returned to South Station as full-time all-electric - -essentially a subway using rubber tires
• The Sl's that wanted to continue on to Logan and Chelsea entered the Ted Williams Tunnel via the emergency vehicle ramp

Both of these are imminently doable just require some commitment and relatively few $$

 

[Roxxma]

Nor do they show commuter rail.

With the exception of Los Angeles where Metro's light rail and subway lines are shown on the map interspersed with Metrolink commuter rail lines, without differentiating which lines are part of Metro and which lines are Metrolink.

 

[fattony]

FT -- SL would have plenty of capacity to service the Seaport if:

• It ran to Silver Line Way underground [Dig Under D] most of the vehicles looped around and returned to South Station as full-time all-electric - -essentially a subway using rubber tires
• The Sl's that wanted to continue on to Logan and Chelsea entered the Ted Williams Tunnel via the emergency vehicle ramp

Both of these are imminently doable just require some commitment and relatively few $$

Except that the ramp was recently tested and dismissed as non-viable. The merge was deemed unsafe. That dream is over. The SL dream is over.

 

[bakgwailo]

Except that the ramp was recently tested and dismissed as non-viable. The merge was deemed unsafe. That dream is over. The SL dream is over.

Yup. Plus it won't be a 'subway using rubber tires' either - D street light or no light the buses have way less capacity and speed and won't approach anything subway like (other than in a literal they drive on a road under the ground kind of way).

 

[JeffDowntown]

Except that the ramp was recently tested and dismissed as non-viable. The merge was deemed unsafe. That dream is over. The SL dream is over.

Something really smells about this supposed testing. That ramp was built for the Silver Line (and was originally labeled Silver Line Way to designate its intended use). The State Police did a land grab and captured it for their exclusive use.

Are we really saying it was so poorly designed that it could never have been used for its intended purpose? Or are the people testing it protecting said land grab? If it is not safe for a Silver Line bus, is it really safe for a fire truck, or a racing emergency vehicle trying to get to the tunnel?

 

[fattony]

Something really smells about this supposed testing. That ramp was built for the Silver Line (and was originally labeled Silver Line Way to designate its intended use). The State Police did a land grab and captured it for their exclusive use.

Are we really saying it was so poorly designed that it could never have been used for its intended purpose? Or are the people testing it protecting said land grab? If it is not safe for a Silver Line bus, is it really safe for a fire truck, or a racing emergency vehicle trying to get to the tunnel?

I’m not sure it matters what was intended or even what the facts are. It is very hard to put that genie back into the bottle. Would you want to be the guy saying “No no, the last time we did this test it was unsafe. This time, after nothing has changed it is safe. We were full of shit last time, but this time we aren’t.”

The ramp has been decided. Maybe it was all political, but it won’t be reversed because politics and optics matter.

 

[whittle]

Something really smells about this supposed testing. That ramp was built for the Silver Line (and was originally labeled Silver Line Way to designate its intended use).

It built as part of the TWT construction in the 90s.

 

[JeffDowntown]

It built as part of the TWT construction in the 90s.

The intention to use the TWT for the Silver Line was fully understood at that point, when they dropped the third tunnel tube. There was no great surprise that buses got added at some later date. That was all integrated planning, that go superseded by the Staties.

 

[jass]

I’m not sure it matters what was intended or even what the facts are. It is very hard to put that genie back into the bottle. Would you want to be the guy saying “No no, the last time we did this test it was unsafe. This time, after nothing has changed it is safe. We were full of shit last time, but this time we aren’t.”

The ramp has been decided. Maybe it was all political, but it won’t be reversed because politics and optics matter.

Of course it can be reversed.

"The anti-transit Republican governor blocked it using false excuses"

 

[bakgwailo]

That ramp was built for the Silver Line (and was originally labeled Silver Line Way to designate its intended use).

I don't know if that is actually true and/or can be proven.

 

[JeffDowntown]

I don't know if that is actually true and/or can be proven.

The Fed DOT 2007 evaluation of the Silver Line project includes a map showing the route THEY THOUGHT the bus would be following. Since the Feds paid for a huge chunk of the Silver Line, they should know the expected route. Note where it enters the TWT.

Reference doc:
https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/FINALBOSTONBRTREPORT062507.pdf

 

[sneijder]

The Fed DOT 2007 evaluation of the Silver Line project includes a map showing the route THEY THOUGHT the bus would be following. Since the Feds paid for a huge chunk of the Silver Line, they should know the expected route. Note where it enters the TWT.

Reference doc:
https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/FINALBOSTONBRTREPORT062507.pdf

Anyone know what happened to the original routing of SL3 down L street? Seems like a no-brainer now with the bus routes down there.

 

[jass]

Canned due to low ridership