MBTA Buses & Infrastructure

as02143 said:
I think that the majority of shuttle riders are also going to the car rental counter. Even if there wasnt random 20 minutes of stopping, I don't think magically the majority would ride through the car rental center.
Click to expand...
I’m skeptical. Do you have a source for this claim? I’ll believe that with a source, but readily reject your guess if all you are doing is guessing.
 
bigeman312 said:
I’m skeptical. Do you have a source for this claim? I’ll believe that with a source, but readily reject your guess if all you are doing is guessing.
Click to expand...
About 30% of passengers at Airport station connect to the shuttle, based on the 2023 Systemwide Passenger Survey. Therefore based on the 1.75 million gated entries at Airport station in 2022, we can assume there were approximately 1.05m trips made on airport shuttles by Blue Line passengers. In 2022 there were around 1.1m rental car transactions, so based on the average rental car occupancy of 2.2, and assuming everyone returned the car at the same location, 4.8m trips were made on airport shuttles by Rental Car users.

So in other words, rental car customers probably outpace BL riders on the shuttles something like 4 to 1.
 
TheRatmeister said:
So in other words, rental car customers probably outpace BL riders on the shuttles something like 4 to 1.
Click to expand...
Right, but my point is that the shuttles are used by two distinct groups.
  • Group 1: riders between terminals and the rental car facility
  • Group 2: riders between the terminals and airport subway station
I don't think there are many riders going between the subway station and car rental facility who aren't at the airport for the purpose of flying. That being the case, why combine the two groups in to a single bus service. It just wastes everybody's time.
 
bigeman312 said:
I’m skeptical. Do you have a source for this claim? I’ll believe that with a source, but readily reject your guess if all you are doing is guessing.
Click to expand...
What @TheRatmeister said. And also, MassPort has this information on ground access to Logan (page 235). 16% of passengers are getting a rental car while 1% take the Blue Line. So yeah, the shuttles probably overwhelmingly are used to get to the rental car center.

HenryAlan said:
That being the case, why combine the two groups in to a single bus service. It just wastes everybody's time.
Click to expand...
One of the shuttles, the 88, does run through the Blue Line, all terminals, and skips the rental car center. That's also the only one that runs 24 hours.
I think if they tried to split up "rental car shuttles" and "blue line shuttles" even further, the result would be more shuttles for rental cars and fewer to the blue line. The way it runs now, a bunch of shuttles that go to the Blue Line essentially get to piggyback on the much more popular "rental car shuttles." It slows the trip, but benefits from much higher frequencies.

I don't doubt there could be improvements, but I think those are the tradeoffs they're working with, and it's not obviously bad for me.


1733933506746.png
 
Thanks for the sources! On a related note, has there been any progress on the Logan Airport People Mover?
 
HenryAlan said:
Right, but my point is that the shuttles are used by two distinct groups.
  • Group 1: riders between terminals and the rental car facility
  • Group 2: riders between the terminals and airport subway station
I don't think there are many riders going between the subway station and car rental facility who aren't at the airport for the purpose of flying. That being the case, why combine the two groups in to a single bus service. It just wastes everybody's time.
Click to expand...

I fly through Logan a lot - 30 flights in 2024 - and I've never experienced a shuttle that stops mid trip for any significant amount of time at the RCC or the Blue Line station.

That said, keep in mind that getting from E to the RCC on the road network requires you to go up the service road past the BL station and back down transportation way anyways, or go the wrong way around via Hotel Dr. Since you have to pass the BL station to serve the RCC you might as well stop. From the BL station, it's the same story - it's barely a detour to serve the RCC, especially since there's basically a dedicated bus way between the two - the 66/88 bypass the ramp but still have to run past to get to terminal A. Either way, serving both allows both to get increased shuttle frequencies with minimal trip delay.
 
HenryAlan said:
Right, but my point is that the shuttles are used by two distinct groups.
  • Group 1: riders between terminals and the rental car facility
  • Group 2: riders between the terminals and airport subway station
I don't think there are many riders going between the subway station and car rental facility who aren't at the airport for the purpose of flying. That being the case, why combine the two groups in to a single bus service. It just wastes everybody's time.
Click to expand...
I'm actually sometimes in the group of "riders going between subway station and car rental facility" when I cant use a local rental car office because rental car reservations are very popular for that time-frame or I need the 24-hr access of Logan (it does end up being more expensive due to the fees added for the car, but that's what I get sometimes...)

It does end up being quicker to walk from the Rental Car Center to the Airport BL station (and the same order of magnitude the other way around), so I have almost never used the shuttles for this purpose (unless I'm lazy or due to inclement weather). So I personally wouldn't mind if I couldn't get to the rental car center direct from the Airport BL station, just my (probably unnecessary, due to the other reasons people listed above) two cents
 
HenryAlan said:
The fact that every airport shuttle does this is a pretty clear indication of who it is that MassPort wants to serve -- tourists and business travelers. I have this strange idea that a local government agency should give at least some thought to serving the local people.
Click to expand...
MassPort makes $214mil/year (2024) from parking which is over 20% of their total revenue and greater than landing fee revenue, so it's very much in their interest to cater to the economy garage over there and discourage the use of alternative modes to reach the airport. Logan Express itself brings in $14.5mil whilst shuttles to and from the rental car center pulled in $10mil, which is only 2.5% of their revenue but still something they'd rather continue to increase. Interestingly, MassPort gets at least a cut of the Silver Line fare revenue ($1mil in FY24) while they get nothing from the Blue Line. It could explain why they play ball by letting SL1 come right to the terminals but snub the Blue Line.
 
Koopzilla24 said:
MassPort makes $214mil/year (2024) from parking which is over 20% of their total revenue and greater than landing fee revenue, so it's very much in their interest to cater to the economy garage over there and discourage the use of alternative modes to reach the airport. Logan Express itself brings in $14.5mil whilst shuttles to and from the rental car center pulled in $10mil, which is only 2.5% of their revenue but still something they'd rather continue to increase. Interestingly, MassPort gets at least a cut of the Silver Line fare revenue ($1mil in FY24) while they get nothing from the Blue Line. It could explain why they play ball by letting SL1 come right to the terminals but snub the Blue Line.
Click to expand...
A few points:
  1. Massport subsidizes the Silver Line; the agreement might mean they get a piece of the fare revenue, but it pales to what they spend - they pay for 76% of all SL service to the terminals, and they buy the buses. In 2023, the operating subsidy was $2.87M, plus $13.5M for 8 new buses. It's why boarding the SL at the airport is free.
    1000039000.jpg
  2. Massport has just over 16000 parking spaces available across all of its on-airport garages. Only around 2750, or 17% of them, are in the economy garage which requires a shuttle. The rest are in the Terminal B garage or Central Parking.
  3. I don't know where you got 214M; Massport recognized just under 198M for Logan parking revenue in 2023. But keep in mind the economy garage is $32/Day compared to $41 at the terminals. Assuming it's constantly at maximum capacity (it's not), the economy has a maximum theoretical revenue of just over $32M a year.
  4. Ditto for your Logan Express & shuttle revenue numbers - I see that in 2023 they earned 12.1M from LEX fares, but also $7.9M from LEX parking. Keep in mind the amount they earn for on-airport shuttles, 6.1M, is charged prorata to basically every airport tenant, including the airlines, not just rental cars, on a cost recovery basis - that is therefore likely also the cost to operate them.
Edited to reflect the existence of the FY24 report.
 
Last edited:
Stlin said:
  1. I don't know where you got 214M; Massport recognized just under 198M for Logan parking revenue in 2023. But keep in mind the economy garage is $32/Day compared to $41 at the terminals. Assuming it's constantly at maximum capacity (it's not), the economy has a maximum theoretical revenue of just over $32M a year.
  2. Ditto for your Logan Express & shuttle revenue numbers - I see that in 2023 they earned 12.1M from LEX fares, but also $7.9M from LEX parking. Keep in mind the amount they earn for on-airport shuttles, 6.1M, is charged prorata to basically every airport tenant, including the airlines, not just rental cars, on a cost recovery basis - that is therefore likely also the cost to operate them.
Click to expand...
From their Annual Comprehensive Financial Report

IMG_6673.jpeg

IMG_6674.jpeg

IMG_6675.jpeg
 
BeansTheCat said:
I'm not sure anyone is claiming a 12% service reduction is acceptable. We just don't agree that all service needs to be restored before BNRD starts. Phase 1 of BNRD seems like a very cost-effective way to provide frequent service and likely result in very positive ridership impacts. It would not surprise me at all if the T is focused on service improvements that will result in the most ridership right now, given their current budget and operator constraints. Again, the biggest problem here is that there is no communication on why the decision are being made, and what trade-offs are being considered.
Click to expand...
I feel that with the changes with Phase 1 BNR combined with the other bus service changes in the Winter schedule will bring the overall bus service at close to if not exactly 95% of pre-pandemic service levels. The BNR service changes themselves like the 104, 109, and 110 being more frequent is already significant. Besides those, the return of pre-pandemic variant 7 trips terminating at South Station in the morning peak and the 57A short trips during rush hour is another significant increases. There are other frequency increases but those are all the highlights for the Winter schedule.
 
MBTA DMA said:
I feel that with the changes with Phase 1 BNR combined with the other bus service changes in the Winter schedule will bring the overall bus service at close to if not exactly 95% of pre-pandemic service levels. The BNR service changes themselves like the 104, 109, and 110 being more frequent is already significant. Besides those, the return of pre-pandemic variant 7 trips terminating at South Station in the morning peak and the 57A short trips during rush hour is another significant increases. There are other frequency increases but those are all the highlights for the Winter schedule.
Click to expand...
This isn't true. When I ran my analysis, service levels are only increasing by 1% on the bus network, all of it BNRD related, with non BNRD routes seeing a 0.5% service decrease. 22 bus routes see service decreases with only 14 routes seeing increases (including the 5 BNRD changes for 19 routes total seeing increases).

Weekday service levels on the bus network this fall is at 85.4% of pre-COVID levels, and this winter it will only be 86.4%, with still 1 in 7 bus strips still unrestored from the schedule to this day.
 
Phase 1 of Bus Network Redesign launched today. Got to ride the new 109 from Everett through to Harvard. Seemed like there was some confusion at Sullivan with the bus berths getting switched around but they had MBTA staff out there directing folks. Was surprised so many riders stayed on the bus rather than transferring for the Orange Line at Sullivan. I know MBTA bus service isn’t perfect, but this is such a much needed upgrade. With all these new routes, Everett now has a direct frequent bus connection to the Orange Line, Red Line, Blue Line and Green Line (D and E) starting today for the first time.
 
lainpimicaja said:
Phase 1 of Bus Network Redesign launched today. Got to ride the new 109 from Everett through to Harvard. Seemed like there was some confusion at Sullivan with the bus berths getting switched around but they had MBTA staff out there directing folks. Was surprised so many riders stayed on the bus rather than transferring for the Orange Line at Sullivan. I know MBTA bus service isn’t perfect, but this is such a much needed upgrade. With all these new routes, Everett now has a direct frequent bus connection to the Orange Line, Red Line, Blue Line and Green Line (D and E) starting today for the first time.
Click to expand...
Are the announcements Franks or the text to speech?
 
I really hope they name the stop at Franklin Park, “Franklin Park”. It’s a major opportunity for placemaking—having a proper station with a name that’s not just the name of a cross street can create momentum for more of a place identity (the way people might say, “I live near Stony Brook”)… and in this case, it would also put the park on the map in a more major way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top