MBTA Commuter Rail (Operations, Keolis, & Short Term)

Badusername said:
Yeah I wonder how this would be managed with Downeaster customers needing access to the platforms as well. Amtrak can’t possibly be expected to create a tappable/scannable ticket or app that is compatible with every regional rail network.

The SEPTA implementation sounds terrible.
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If I remember correctly the gates included a barcode scanner that could read Amtrak tickets. The plan is for North Station, South Station, and Back Bay so having Amtrak Integration is key. I don't know what ticketing backend Amtrak uses but having an API that allows basic access to verify a scanned ticket should be really simple in this day and age and is commonplace abroad. In the UK the way it works is regional networks are responsible for adding support for the national standard, not the other way around, so the MBTA/SEPTA/etc would be responsible for supporting the Amtrak standard in addition to their own, Amtrak is only responsible for providing some kind of standardized backend access that allows verification.

There is a board meeting tomorrow that includes discussion of fare transformation, I'd guess that page was supposed to go live around or after that. https://www.mbta.com/events/2022-02-24/board-meeting-mbta-board-directors-virtual
 
jass said:
Philadelphia added the gates and for Amtrak, you need to show your ticket to the staff for them to open the gate. You have to do it twice to board SEPTA at 30th and get off downtown (Amtrak ticket entitled you to free transfer between the stations)

SEPTA did add tap points at outer stations but the whole system is a mess.
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Iarnród Éireann, Ireland's national railroad company, has platform entry gates at least at its major and secondary stations. On a trip there a few years back, I had to tap in at Dublin Heuston and tap out to exit at Cork and vice-versa, as well as in and out at some midsized outlying stations (Mallow, and Cobh, though I think Cobh had validators without gates). I'm not certain if all stations have entry/exit gates or validators, but many that are not rural halts do. On my trip back to Dublin from Cork, the station agents at Cork just opened all of the gates for boarding, but I had to tap out at Dublin to open the gates (that are very similar to the ones the MBTA uses) and it worked, even though my ticket hadn't been validated before arriving, so maybe they're used more frequently on the commuter rail and/or intercity tickets come validated...
 
HelloBostonHi said:
If I remember correctly the gates included a barcode scanner that could read Amtrak tickets. The plan is for North Station, South Station, and Back Bay so having Amtrak Integration is key. I don't know what ticketing backend Amtrak uses but having an API that allows basic access to verify a scanned ticket should be really simple in this day and age and is commonplace abroad. In the UK the way it works is regional networks are responsible for adding support for the national standard, not the other way around, so the MBTA/SEPTA/etc would be responsible for supporting the Amtrak standard in addition to their own, Amtrak is only responsible for providing some kind of standardized backend access that allows verification.

There is a board meeting tomorrow that includes discussion of fare transformation, I'd guess that page was supposed to go live around or after that. https://www.mbta.com/events/2022-02-24/board-meeting-mbta-board-directors-virtual
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As expected
 
How much has been specified about the planned reconstruction of Windsor Gardens as part of the Franklin Line Double Track Phase 3 project? Will reconstruction include two 800 foot high level platforms? Is additional access planned to be provided from Mylod Street or Ryan Drive?

I recall hearing that there was supposed to be a gauntlet track to accommodate for freight clearance.
 
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themissinglink said:
How much has been specified about the planned reconstruction of Windsor Gardens as part of the Franklin Line Double Track Phase 3 project? Will reconstruction include two 800 foot high level platforms? Is additional access planned to be provided from Mylod Street or Ryan Drive?

I recall hearing that there was supposed to be a gauntlet track to accommodate for freight clearance.
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There's been no public meetings on WG's rebuild yet, so as of now nothing is known about additional egresses or even the exactitude of the layout. It'll be 800 ft. full-highs of some TBD configuration.

The Franklin Line from Readville Jct. to Walpole Jct. is a protected high-and-wide Plate F freight clearance route, encoded per the T's own Design Guide. So high-and-wide freight passage must be provisioned for in design in order for the design to be legally kosher with the Mass Architectural Board. There's a paucity of actual high-and-wide traffic on the route, so it's possible that the implementation of a gauntlet or other passing solution could be deferred like it was with Winchester Center (though CSX does not tend to be as forgiving about those things as anything-goes Pan Am). But regardless of implementation the freight passage legalities do officially get triggered here for the design process.
 
In the Proposed FY23-27 CIP, there's $157.4M planned for the North Station Draw Bridge 1 Replacement project.

Replacement of North Station Draw 1 bridge structure and control tower. Includes expansion of bridge capacity from 4 to 6 tracks, expansion of station platform capacity from 10 to 12 tracks, and a pedestrian path across the Charles River.
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(page 24)
 
Teban54 said:
Fare gates construction to begin at North Station:
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So North Station is being retrofitted with fare gates for the Commuter Rail, but the brand new limited-access grade-separated Green Line stations at Lechmere and Union Square were built without any planned fare validation infrastructure.

How one organization can make both of these decisions at the exact same time is beyond me.
 
JumboBuc said:
So North Station is being retrofitted with fare gates for the Commuter Rail, but the brand new limited-access grade-separated Green Line stations at Lechmere and Union Square were built without any planned fare validation infrastructure.

How one organization can make both of these decisions at the exact same time is beyond me.
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GLX's faregates got culled in one of Baker & Company's cost-slashing exercises, in the belief that AFC 2.0 would be ready in time for the opening (though how reasonable an assumption that was in light of Cubic being the one doing the new fare system...). Poor foresight and lousy assumptions = problems, meaning they had to scramble to kludge together a solution to a problem that never should have existed.

The CR faregates are likewise an act of lunacy. They're supposed to be able to accept Downeaster tickets (though I sincerely hope Amtrak didn't lift a finger or spend a nickel to help the T on this one), though I think a supply of popcorn should be on hand for when that inevitably glitches out and leads to a shouting match between Amtrak/NNEPRA and the T. I've forgotten if it was addressed how they'll work in practice, but I do wonder about the potential for lawsuits given that I don't recall the concourse inside the fare-controlled area having restrooms (and, uh, charging another fare for using the bathroom when people are stuck waiting out one of Keolis's meltdowns won't be a good look). I can't imagine that the businesses there are all too thrilled about being cut off from non-CR customers (though I suspect that CR pax are the majority of their customers).

I'm endlessly amused by the expense they're going to, given that there's no way for the faregates to know where people are going. Subway-fare Zone 1A ticket? You're good! Doesn't matter if you're actually going to Newburyport and rolling the dice on whether the conductors are collecting fares or not today! As ever, a crappy solution to a problem that didn't need to exist, and, like the GLX, one where better solutions are perfectly feasible.
 
How will the NS fare gates work with the mTicket app?
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Scan the QR code from the app. Honestly I think people are making these out to be a way bigger deal than they need to be
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It’s a solution in search of a problem, and, as Brattle pointed out, it doesn’t even solve the problem it’s supposedly intended for. I’ve never seen data on projected fare loss on the commuter rail, but given how many people bought monthly passes pre-Covid, I’m skeptical that it could be particularly high. Big picture, the T should be moving away from fare gates, not doubling down on them. Proof of payment systems are faster and more efficient to use day to day, and actually enable proper (and auditable) enforcement with meaningful fines for deterrence.

I think there are a lot of questionable-appearing decisions the T makes which, on closer examination, do have some sense to them (tortured though it may be); the lack of fare gates on GLX is a good example of this, in that it looks insane at first and then on closer inspection… still looks insane but at least has a plausible justification.

The fare gates at North Station, though — they look insane on the surface and then on closer inspection appear to have no serious justification and call to mind the worst of Bostonian provincialism — “if it wasn’t built/imagined/created here, we won’t use it.”

It’s just depressing.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Scan the QR code from the app. Honestly I think people are making these out to be a way bigger deal than they need to be
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Once activated, the ticket will time out. Admittedly, it does give you a long time, but the app does currently tell you not to activate it until you get on the train. If you're using the app it probably would be best practice not to enter the waiting area until they announce a track. So, not really a waiting area anymore. My anecdotal travelling on the CR at least two or three days a week for the past year is that the vast majority of riders are currently using the app. Not a big deal, but it will impact how a lot of current riders manage getting out of NS at the end of the day.
 
Wonk said:
Once activated, the ticket will time out. Admittedly, it does give you a long time, but the app does currently tell you not to activate it until you get on the train. If you're using the app it probably would be best practice not to enter the waiting area until they announce a track. So, not really a waiting area anymore. My anecdotal travelling on the CR at least two or three days a week for the past year is that the vast majority of riders are currently using the app. Not a big deal, but it will impact how a lot of current riders manage getting out of NS at the end of the day.
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The app explicitly tells you to activate it before boarding, and then gives you 2 hours of validity after that (1.5 hours for a 1A ticket) which should be more than enough to loiter around in the paid area, board the train, and be checked. Boarding before activating is technically fare evasion and called out in the MBTA Tariff as such.

Riverside said:
Big picture, the T should be moving away from fare gates, not doubling down on them. Proof of payment systems are faster and more efficient to use day to day, and actually enable proper (and auditable) enforcement with meaningful fines for deterrence.
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Bi-directional fare gates like these are a vital part of a good proof of payment system with tap on/tap off functionality. This is the first step to tap on/tap off commuter rail, where all stations will have either platform validators or gates. Knowing there are exit gates at the end of your journey, you tap on at your origin station even though there are no gates. If you fail to tap on at the origin you risk ending up at North Station unable to leave because you haven't paid. Similarly when you tap at N Station that begins your journey and you are charged when you tap off at your destination station, there is no way to short-zone. Several parts of the TfL network work like this and work great. It also allows for the future of using charliecards on commuter rail, which is something I have been waiting on for years.
 
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HelloBostonHi said:
The app explicitly tells you to activate it before boarding, and then gives you 2 hours of validity after that (1.5 hours for a 1A ticket) which should be more than enough to loiter around in the paid area, board the train, and be checked. Boarding before activating is technically fare evasion and called out in the MBTA Tariff as such.
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Thanks, Dad. Enter at 4:20 for a 4:40 Lowell train (typically boards at 4:30 so planning your travel from somewhere in the city to arrive at NS ten minutes prior to boarding is not unwise). 4:40 is cancelled. Next one is 5:25. And after experiencing both getting cancelled and waiting for the 6:10, that scenario kind of eats into the mTicket clock. I'm not saying fare gates are bad. I'm saying I hope they are planning for lots of riders to be waiting outside the gates routinely.
 
A fairly minimal software change would allow mTicket to show when the last ticket was validated and where, without a strict expiration time. Then a conductor / inspector / algorithm could see that the ticket was most logically validated in anticipation of the current trip the rider is on, even if it's > 2 hours.

I'm struggling with the timeline being totally upside down on many of these decisions. Construction plans are set as if AFC 2.0 is done, but it's definitely not. This is going to result in years of confusion and frustration as the infrastructure expects a fare system that isn't ready. Why not press pause on CR fare gates until the fare system is totally ready for them?

I'm also struggling with the cognitive dissonance with respect to the level of ambition on these fare validation changes. Including a handful of fare gates on brand new grade-separated rapid transit stops is too much of an investment, but retrofitting 100+ stations on a dozen lines with new fare gates and validators is an investment worth making? Huh? I could see both or I could see neither, but no to fare gates on GLX and yes to gates on CR makes no sense.
 
Wonk said:
Thanks, Dad. Enter at 4:20 for a 4:40 Lowell train (typically boards at 4:30 so planning your travel from somewhere in the city to arrive at NS ten minutes prior to boarding is not unwise). 4:40 is cancelled. Next one is 5:25. And after experiencing both getting cancelled and waiting for the 6:10, that scenario kind of eats into the mTicket clock. I'm not saying fare gates are bad. I'm saying I hope they are planning for lots of riders to be waiting outside the gates routinely.
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The frequency of delays, and their severity, appears to have been completely ignored, especially because it's not necessarily the case that any given delay or cancellation is announced any meaningful time in advance. I've had experiences where I've been at the station, waiting, and a delay (subsequently turning into a cancellation) wasn't even announced until the time the train was supposed to depart, i.e. long after most if not all passengers would expect to have validated tickets and entered the paid area. (In my case I'd be particularly furious given that I live close enough to the Orange Line that whenever the Haverhill had a meltdown it was a viable alternative option, but like hell am I going to waste a CR fare and pay for the subway, which would be forced on anyone using M-Ticket and potentially on other non-pass users.)
 
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