MBTA Construction Projects

Checked the new inbound Kendall/MIT headhouse/entrance today--underground is clean but spartan, all the extravagance is aboveground. Hopefully it is maintained. Not sure why two elevators are necessary.

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#bancars said:
Checked the new inbound Kendall/MIT headhouse/entrance today--underground is clean but spartan, all the extravagance is aboveground.
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Awesome shots, thanks!

#bancars said:
Not sure why two elevators are necessary.
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1) Because when one inevitably goes down now and again, accessibility is maintained without a hitch
2) Because the other station exit at the far other end of the platform does not have, and ostensibly can never have, an elevator
3) Because the cost of building two next to each other at the same time is far less than the separate cost of two full elevator builds

Separate note:
It looks spartan and empty (though classy) perhaps in part because they haven't moved the fare vending/charlie card machines yet. Those are presumably still in the temporary head house and will be moved over imminently against that blank wall.
 
bigpicture7 said:
Awesome shots, thanks!



1) Because when one inevitably goes down now and again, accessibility is maintained without a hitch
2) Because the other station exit at the far other end of the platform does not have, and ostensibly can never have, an elevator
3) Because the cost of building two next to each other at the same time is far less than the separate cost of two full elevator builds

Separate note:
It looks spartan and empty (though classy) perhaps in part because they haven't moved the fare vending/charlie card machines yet. Those are presumably still in the temporary head house and will be moved over imminently against that blank wall.
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Thanks for context--is elevator redundancy standard across the MBTA system now?

And they did have the fare machines right by the faregates--I just didn't get a picture of those. (They are around the corner where the map is.)
 
#bancars said:
Thanks for context--is elevator redundancy standard across the MBTA system now?

And they did have the fare machines right by the faregates--I just didn't get a picture of those. (They are around the corner where the map is.)
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More or less. There's an entire group of projects that are supposed to add redundant elevators to already accessible stations so that a single elevator going out of service won't make the station completely inaccessible. IE, Davis only has a single elevator from 1 of 2 head houses to the mezzanine, and only one from the mezzanine to the platform. If either one of those fails, the station is now functionally inaccessible, so they're now planning for N+1. GLX stations exhibit that - every GLX station has either multiple elevators or a fully accessible passive entry - ramps and "at grade". Same applies to anything recently designed, even the newer CR stations like Worcester Union, or SCR. It's why the proposed Newton CR stations currently look incredibly overbuilt.
 
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There has been at least one lawsuit involving the lack of redundant elevators across the T. I think the plaintiff was the Boston Center for Independent Living.
 
Stlin said:
More or less. There's an entire group of projects that are supposed to add redundant elevators to already accessible stations so that a single elevator going out of service won't make the station completely inaccessible. IE, Davis only has a single elevator from 1 of 2 head houses to the mezzanine, and only one from the mezzanine to the platform. If either one of those fails, the station is now functionally inaccessible, so they're now planning for N+1. GLX stations exhibit that - every GLX station has either multiple elevators or a fully accessible passive entry - ramps and "at grade". Same applies to anything recently designed, even the newer CR stations like Worcester Union, or SCR. It's why the proposed Newton CR stations currently look incredibly overbuilt.
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Seems like a ton of money to have redundant elevators instead of just being better at maintaining them so they don't break down. Is this common in international contexts?
 
#bancars said:
Seems like a ton of money to have redundant elevators instead of just being better at maintaining them so they don't break down. Is this common in international contexts?
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Redundant elevators are required for new construction on the MBTA because of an accessibility lawsuit settlement 17 years ago and subsequent tightening of Mass. Architectural Board accessibility regs. Massachusetts has the toughest above-and-beyond-ADA regs in the country, so this is not typical elsewhere (and not typical internationally, since the U.S. has stiffer accessibility regs than most countries).
 
#bancars said:
Seems like a ton of money to have redundant elevators instead of just being better at maintaining them so they don't break down. Is this common in international contexts?
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Machines will inevitably break down or have a fault and become inoperable. If the access to a station for able bodied people were similarly capricious, people would quit transit.

And it's becoming much more common in new builds to have multiple - maybe not right next to each other like this.
 
as02143 said:
Machines will inevitably break down or have a fault and become inoperable. If the access to a station for able bodied people were similarly capricious, people would quit transit.

And it's becoming much more common in new builds to have multiple - maybe not right next to each other like this.
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A more-common-than-you-think reason for why subway elevators are frequently out of order is folks peeing in them. It can compromise the machinery beneath, which is why the T is following a few other agencies to detect urine in their elevators.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
Redundant elevators are required for new construction on the MBTA because of an accessibility lawsuit settlement 17 years ago and subsequent tightening of Mass. Architectural Board accessibility regs. Massachusetts has the toughest above-and-beyond-ADA regs in the country, so this is not typical elsewhere (and not typical internationally, since the U.S. has stiffer accessibility regs than most countries).
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Thanks--exactly the answer I was looking for!
 
lainpimicaja said:
A more-common-than-you-think reason for why subway elevators are frequently out of order is folks peeing in them. It can compromise the machinery beneath, which is why the T is following a few other agencies to detect urine in their elevators.
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While I'm quite supportive of the idea for general cleanliness reasons, if the interior floor of elevators is not designed so that liquids drain out in a guided fashion and away from sensitive/structural bits of the car rather than randomly seeping into elevator car machinery, that seems like an absurd oversight?
 
What in the everloving fuck is up with the South Station escalators that get you from rail to T? I swear they've been broken for years. And what is up with the fact that all people have to go through a single doorway that's the width of double doors to get between the stations? Is there some grand plan to totally redo this insanely awful connection? And if so, does it necessitate that the area has to be almost unusable due to crush of people until they do the full redesign? As in, why cant they literally just rip out the broken escalators and put in temporary stairs? The crush of people during rush hour is utterly ridiculous for the largest train station in this city.
 
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millerm277 said:
While I'm quite supportive of the idea for general cleanliness reasons, if the interior floor of elevators is not designed so that liquids drain out in a guided fashion and away from sensitive/structural bits of the car rather than randomly seeping into elevator car machinery, that seems like an absurd oversight?
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How do you design a sewer drain into a device that moves vertically up and down?
 
reno said:
How do you design a sewer drain into a device that moves vertically up and down?
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You could probably design a drain into a pipe that empties away from any of the important components under the cab, but you'd either need a really long, flexible (complicated) sewer hose (which would likely be prone to freezing in places that got cold enough) or just dump into the shaft like old railroad toilets used to do...but that'd be atrociously disgusting and likely a public health no-no. :sick:
 
This probably explains the platform level window on the new redundant elevator at Central. It cuts down on the privacy, to discourage lift-a-loo usage.
 
as02143 said:
Machines will inevitably break down or have a fault and become inoperable. If the access to a station for able bodied people were similarly capricious, people would quit transit.

And it's becoming much more common in new builds to have multiple - maybe not right next to each other like this.
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Routine maintenance can also require temporary closure of equipment. Ideally, such maintenance occurs over night, but there are certainly scenarios when it would be during operating hours. Without redundancy, there is quite a bit less maintenance flexibility.
 
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