MBTA Fare System (Charlie, AFC 2.0, Zone, Discounts)

Just want to remind everyone that had the MBTA competently managed this project, AFC 2.0 was supposed to have been in full revenue service as of last month, and instead they haven't even approved the modified design build contract yet. We have now spent three years in community engagement and contract negotiations with absolutely nothing to show for it beyond a much more expensive and drawn out project with no end in sight.

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I remember when that was announced it seemed wildly faster than I expected given the scope. At the time I optimistically thought it was a sign of a new era for the T, where projects could be measured in a few years instead of a few decades like the GLX. That optimism is now firmly gone.
 
Andrew said:
I remember when that was announced it seemed wildly faster than I expected given the scope. At the time I optimistically thought it was a sign of a new era for the T, where projects could be measured in a few years instead of a few decades like the GLX. That optimism is now firmly gone.
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I remember them saying that it was critcal to hit the date because Charlie was old and not supported and if we didnt move fast everything would catch fire
 
In my opinion, if AFC 2.0 goes any further off the rails the T should just give up on charging any fares at all after a certain date.
 
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Wash said:
In my opinion, if AFC 2.0 goes any further off the rails the T should just give up on charging any fares at all after a certain date.
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I think we'll be seeing a LOT more push-back on fare enforcement after the recent protests
 
Big news that was slipped out without a word today: https://www.mbta.com/news/2020-06-18/mbta-fare-transformation-program-finalizes-contract-amendment

They finally managed to approve the contract for AFC 2 which means it's actually happening. Still on the delayed schedule but it was getting increasingly close to cancelled.

"The contract amendment signed Monday incorporates improvements to the original “AFC 2.0” contract based on feedback from customers, advocates, and policy makers. "
That's a nice way of saying the contract has ballooned with unnecessary politics.
 
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How much more money are we shoveling down Cubic's gullet this time on the latest amendment for the privilege of continuing to be worst-case late? It's been a whole 2 months since we last wrote them a blank cheque, so I figured we were about due. :cautious:
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
How much more money are we shoveling down Cubic's gullet this time on the latest amendment for the privilege of continuing to be worst-case late? It's been a whole 2 months since we last wrote them a blank cheque, so I figured we were about due. :cautious:
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There were notably no numbers mentioned in the press release so its probably not good
 
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Low quality but here's the most detailed timeline I have seen yet, starts on Route 28 and Route 39 (articulated buses) and two orange line stations (given the bus routes I'd expect Ruggles to be included), then SL4 and SL5 (articulated buses) and the remainder of the Orange Line, then Green Line, then transit, then commuter rail starting with Fairmount and Haverhill.
 
Ah, a lovely QR code reader like NJ Transit. Extremely slow and unreliable!
 
HelloBostonHi said:
What is the point in replacing them now to replace them again in two years, I simply don't get it.
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What I've been asking this whole time. The phased approach is so confusing. All while they're facing potential layoffs and a multi-hundred million dollar budget deficit.
 
stefal said:
What I've been asking this whole time. The phased approach is so confusing. All while they're facing potential layoffs and a multi-hundred million dollar budget deficit.
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I wonder if just having free transit during implementation would end up being faster and cheaper than all the man-hours and infrastructure to make it a phased transition.
 
jass said:
Ah, a lovely QR code reader like NJ Transit. Extremely slow and unreliable!
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QR codes are useful for a lot of reasons -- social service agencies would be able to hand out passes to their clients for example. Another reason would be for mobile payment (for lower-grade smartphones without NFC + mobile payment). QR is also a quite common way of ticketing in Mobility as a Service platforms -- who knows if they take root here, but seemingly, we should at least have some technological openness to the QR readers at this moment, non?
 
ra84970 said:
QR codes are useful for a lot of reasons -- social service agencies would be able to hand out passes to their clients for example. Another reason would be for mobile payment (for lower-grade smartphones without NFC + mobile payment). QR is also a quite common way of ticketing in Mobility as a Service platforms -- who knows if they take root here, but seemingly, we should at least have some technological openness to the QR readers at this moment, non?
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Why cant the social service agency hand out a charlie card?

NJT uses it for the mobile payment aspect, but thats where most of the trouble lies. People have a lot of trouble getting it to read their screen - too much variety in screen sizes, quality, and brightness.
 
jass said:
Why cant the social service agency hand out a charlie card?

NJT uses it for the mobile payment aspect, but thats where most of the trouble lies. People have a lot of trouble getting it to read their screen - too much variety in screen sizes, quality, and brightness.
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The cost to the T for a CharlieCard is around $1 ea. They really really don't want to distribute more of the CharlieCards. Before smartcard driven fare collection, social service agencies handed out coupons (or systems that used them -- tokens). And often gave people enough for a roundtrip. However, these things were relatively "disposable". If SSAs could return to printing out coupons or otherwise

While the time it takes the QR reader to register something is like the longer time that a debit/credit card chip payment takes (in comparison to a magswipe or NFC tap), it is clearly within an acceptable realm for a lot of people to have a slightly slower transaction in order to expand the possible sources of revenue and fare media.
 
Yeah so I have no clue what phase this is, is this a stop gap measure before the full transition in two years? Will these be compatible with the new system or will they be replaced again? Why only 50% of the gates? What is a "tappable charlieticket" and when did that become part of this?

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HelloBostonHi said:
Yeah so I have no clue what phase this is, is this a stop gap measure before the full transition in two years? Will these be compatible with the new system or will they be replaced again? Why only 50% of the gates? What is a "tappable charlieticket" and when did that become part of this?
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Apparently, pilot of upgraded gates and readers is phase 1 and 2, 2020/2021. Charliecard vending is part of phase 2 as well, which I suspect also enables tappable tickets. I'm fairly sure tappable charlie tickets are part of the AFC 2.0 reboot as a consequence of phasing. The original proposal was Charlie card, contactless bank card, or mobile only, and I believe the Cubic equipment won't have mag stripe read capabilities. As the alternative "Online" payment methods are only scheduled to come online with phase 4, 2023, likely including QR based, some form of "offline" single use ticket was probably deemed critical. While a QR code based single use ticket is probably better in the long run, in the interim the offline S&B system probably can't support it, hence tapable tickets. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they disappeared after a few years, as the T's long term goal is no single use fare media. But, I also believe there was community pushback, as there are people who still don't and won't have access to those services; the unbanked, homeless, etc, so some form of single fare tickets will likely always be around.

As to why 50%, I'm almost certain it's because of transition and interoperability reasons. You want people to be able to get in during the switchover, so some legacy gates need to remain active for some while, since they're not going for a big bang anymore. So when they do install the Cubic system and remove the S&B, they'll replace the old, unupgraded half first, so that 50% of faregates eventually are "Legacy+ interoperable S&B" and 50% Cubic. Plus, you want the fare media to work on both the old gates and the new Cubic gates when they exist side by side. The tech is different enough that you need the new readers, that can do NFC mobile pay, tap credit cards and all that. The Payment Card Industry standards they reference are the collective group that set data security standards for Visa, Mastercard, JCB, etc, which implies these gates will be contactless ready.
 
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