MBTA Red Line / Blue Line Connector

stick n move said:
Hasnt the “obvious” route always been sending blue down the riverfront and replacing the green D branch with blue? F line always stated that if/when it happens you need to swap out storrow, but regardless thats been the generally accepted future of the line for a while.
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Case in point, this is exactly why I decided to write this piece. :) Sending Blue to Kenmore is feasible enough, but sending to Riverside creates major problems because it prevents the conversion of the Needham Line to rapid transit. I go into this in further detail in... I think it's part 4? So stay tuned. (Blue-to-Riverside is a common suggestion; part of why I wanted to write this piece was to centralize all of the common ideas and all of the challenges associated with them. Like an FAQ for Blue Line West.)

There also is a significant contingent, as we've seen upthread, who prefer sending the Blue Line to Cambridge, which I think also has appeal, and is why I don't think the next step is as obvious as it might be.
Arlington said:
Congrats on hitting the character limits (I didn’t know we had any) best wishes on the blog and I hope you’ll keep cross posting
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bigpicture7 said:
^ +1 on this. I enjoy your posts and will be more likely to check out your long-form work (in the busy-ness of life, etc) if you cross post it here.
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Cheers folks, I really appreciate the encouragement! Yes, I will continue to cross-post here. I'm hoping to strike a balance where I can post more succinct summaries here and provide links to the blog posts to have all of the insane detail I can't help but write out. I don't want to seem like I'm just trying to advertise the blog, though, so I want to make sure I find a happy medium.

I also always include the link to my latest post in my signature, so you'll be able to see it there as well.

(And I think the character limit is 50,000 characters? I know F-Line also would hit it somewhat frequently.)
 
New article yesterday. Nothing huge, though it is perhaps notable that incoming Gov. Healey lists Red-Blue Connector among her transportation agenda. Could the change in administration be what it takes to push this over the hump?:

www.axios.com

MBTA officials eye connecting Red and Blue lines

The Blue and Red are the only subway lines in the MBTA system that don't intersect.
www.axios.com www.axios.com
 
jklo said:
850 mill for a half mile? Sheesh.
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IIRC, the ground beneath Cambridge st. is a disaster of tangled up ancient utilities that all need to be relocated. There were diagrams related to utility relocation posted in conceptual design documents upthread.
 
bigpicture7 said:
IIRC, the ground beneath Cambridge st. is a disaster of tangled up ancient utilities that all need to be relocated. There were diagrams related to utility relocation posted in conceptual design documents upthread.
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I can only imagine. Still don't think it should cost anywhere near that much.
 
jklo said:
I can only imagine. Still don't think it should cost anywhere near that much.
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Not saying I disagree it seems quite expensive. Cost breakdown cited in the article is on Page 10 within here:

RB-costs_2020.png


^Utility relo is within tunnel costs (first line item).
 
jklo said:
I can only imagine. Still don't think it should cost anywhere near that much.
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It also includes a station and two stub tracks. The original narrow Cambridge Street is really old, and it was widened to more than double its original width in the 1920s. So the utilities have to be a mess.
 
jklo said:
I can only imagine. Still don't think it should cost anywhere near that much.
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The optics of that price tag are not good. Given the increases in labor and materials over the last 30 months, what will the price be now? The MBTA does not exactly have a stellar track record when it comes to completing projects on time and on budget.

People who are against funding for mass transit can easily point to a project like this, where we're talking about a half mile costs almost a billion dollars, can get a lost of traction due to the sheer cost for what is a relatively small project. I am in favor of it and love mass transit expansion. But at this high of a price, we should not be surprised if it receives a lot of backlash.
 
mass88 said:
The optics of that price tag are not good. Given the increases in labor and materials over the last 30 months, what will the price be now?

People who are against funding for mass transit can easily point to a project like this, where we're talking about a half mile costs almost a billion dollars, can get a lost of traction due to the sheer cost for what is a relatively small project. I am in favor of it and love mass transit expansion. But at this high of a price, we should not be surprised if it receives a lot of backlash.
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Per above, contingencies and cost escalation themselves are $270mil of the estimate. Those are non-value-delivered items. If estimation conventions require such at such magnitudes, the MBTA will never be able to present an estimate to the public with "nice optics."

In the distant past, nice lower estimates would be presented and be total wrong. I don't disagree with either of you about optics, but this is sort of a lose-lose.
 
Tallguy said:
Or you could put it up on a viaduct.
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Somehow I don't think that would fly (no pun intended) with the Beacon Hill crowd. Plus given the size of the columns on the GLX, the footprint would be huge. In a perfect world, I would like to see viaduct used like the Marta north line has utilised in Atlanta around Perimeter / Dunwoody.
 
Brattle Loop said:
Anyone have any idea whether this is another Baker & Company tank job? They're not out of office yet.
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What incentive would he have to do that? Are you suggesting that the price tag is being purposely inflated so as to destroy any momentum for it being built?
 
a "small number" of years ago, Ari was citing MassDOT's then $750 million claims as unreasonably high. With inflation, that's nearly $950 million today, so... the estimate has gone down? Yay?
 
mass88 said:
What incentive would he have to do that? Are you suggesting that the price tag is being purposely inflated so as to destroy any momentum for it being built?
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Their numbers for the East-West rail idea and for the NSRL (among others) were highly questionable with some curious methodological choices that seemed to be responsible. It would not be the first time that they'd sandbagged a project they didn't want, is why I'm asking.
 
$30 million for rolling stock? Do they really need to expand the blue line fleet to handle moving one station half a mile down the road? $30 million also in MBTA "administration" costs seems pretty strange to me - why would be MBTA be charging itself admin fees on a project it is building? Be nice if MGH kicked in a bit on the $20 million for their entrance. MassDOT/MBTA should do an air rights tower over the existing station and circle to fund it, could even get a 900'-er.
 
bakgwailo said:
$30 million for rolling stock? Do they really need to expand the blue line fleet to handle moving one station half a mile down the road?
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That'd be, what, 10-15 cars? That's like two trains and some spares (well, if Bowdoin getting nuked means they can go to OL-length cars, it'd be like three-or-so four-car trains). If they're not CRRC clones with the same guts as the RL/OL cars, they'll be unicorns twice over. Blue Line fleet increases/eventual replacement seems like it's a separate matter from a one-stop extension (especially not one that simultaneously allows for greater operational flexibility by having tail tracks and the ability to hold trains on the platforms like all the other stub terminals, and which nukes the atrocious speed restriction around the loop). I don't give these guys the benefit of the doubt anymore, it kind of feels like a choice to put that item in there where it doesn't have to be, to jack up the price (historically one of the hallmarks of their sandbagging, though by no means definitive proof they're doing it here).
 
Brattle Loop said:
That'd be, what, 10-15 cars? That's like two trains and some spares (well, if Bowdoin getting nuked means they can go to OL-length cars, it'd be like three-or-so four-car trains). If they're not CRRC clones with the same guts as the RL/OL cars, they'll be unicorns twice over. Blue Line fleet increases/eventual replacement seems like it's a separate matter from a one-stop extension (especially not one that simultaneously allows for greater operational flexibility by having tail tracks and the ability to hold trains on the platforms like all the other stub terminals, and which nukes the atrocious speed restriction around the loop). I don't give these guys the benefit of the doubt anymore, it kind of feels like a choice to put that item in there where it doesn't have to be, to jack up the price (historically one of the hallmarks of their sandbagging, though by no means definitive proof they're doing it here).
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Could it be they are anticipating a ridership increase due to the better connectivity of the line, and hence want to be able to support more trains per hour? :unsure:
 
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