MBTA Winter 2015: Failure and Recovery

Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

Uh, the T says they are operating a limited bus schedule tomorrow but I can't find any kind of list of routes that are / are not running.

Anyone know if it has been published yet?
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

"The MBTA is the bloodline in what should make this city flow. But it clearly shows the TRANSIT is a joke.
They could care less if you sit in traffic for hours. Lets build a casino in the most congested area in outside 93."


Or if you're standing out in bitterly cold weather, waiting for a warm bus or train that should've picked you up within a reasonable time frame or window!

Which also makes me wonder if they'll try to raise the fares again this coming July, claiming that they are going broke again, knowing full well that commuters, having had to suffer through one of the worst & most brutal winters on record, that it will not sit too well with the commuters! :eek:
 
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Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

Jahvon09 said:
Which also makes me wonder if they'll try to raise the fares again this coming July, claiming that they are going broke again, knowing full well that commuters, having had to suffer through one of the worst & most brutal winters on record, that it will not sit too well with the commuters! :eek:
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They are legally not allowed to raise fares again until 2016, and only a 5% raise at that. To raise fares this year, the T would need to overhaul that law, or have some sort of override.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

^ To add, those increases are only supposed to keep up with inflation, not fix a full-blown fiscal, operational and maintenance crisis.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

I got my answer. :/

All bus routes will operate limited service through the end of regular service hours on Monday, February 9 and from start to end of service on Tuesday, February 10. Please be advised, connections to subway and Commuter Rail lines will not be available.
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Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

whighlander said:
Time to reboot the T and that means booting out the door en-masse most of Deval's Affirmative Action for Idiots appointees
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When's the last time you rode the T?
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

whighlander said:
Time to reboot the T and that means booting out the door en-masse most of Deval's Affirmative Action for Idiots appointees
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Usher in the Great White Knight and be done with this!!

Some people...
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

someone said this on SSC...

Moving to Boston? Think Again.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

^ Sadly true. I have some friends who have wanted to move to Boston for the game dev scene and they've told me the constant T failures are what is keeping them from moving here.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

datadyne007 said:
^ Sadly true. I have some friends who have wanted to move to Boston for the game dev scene and they've told me the constant T failures are what is keeping them from moving here.
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Where are they moving from? As someone who commuted via BART and the CTA, I can tell you that the routine delays and breakdowns on both are just as bad as the T (particularly BART, which has switch failures on what seems like a weekly basis). Again, no major transit system in the world has had ever to deal with 73 inches of snow in 17 days. The New York Subway would likely shut down in the boroughs, the CTA would shut down, the Paris, London, Berlin, Hong Kong, etc. systems would be down for days. There is no precedent for this.

Could the T be better on a regular basis? Absolutely. Is it reasonable to expect it to be better right now? Probably not.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

Equilibria said:
Where are they moving from? As someone who commuted via BART and the CTA, I can tell you that the routine delays and breakdowns on both are just as bad as the T (particularly BART, which has switch failures on what seems like a weekly basis). Again, no major transit system in the world has had ever to deal with 73 inches of snow in 17 days. The New York Subway would likely shut down in the boroughs, the CTA would shut down, the Paris, London, Berlin, Hong Kong, etc. systems would be down for days. There is no precedent for this.

Could the T be better on a regular basis? Absolutely. Is it reasonable to expect it to be better right now? Probably not.
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Pittsburgh.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

Predictions for the next two months:

- Lots of political rumbling about how the T is inadequate/poorly managed/poorly funded/whatever.
- Governor makes some statements about fixing the T.
- Legislature does not act; Governor cannot do anything with support from legislature.
- Governor terminates Scott as a scapegoat to make it seem like he's fixed the system somehow. By the time this occurs we'll heading towards nice Spring weather and people will be ready to forget the shitty state of the T because system shutdowns like this are a winter-only phenomenon.

Fast-forward to 2035 and the T is still a disaster and political inaction has dug such a big hole that we're forced to shutter the entire subway system and replace it all with BRT.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

BussesAin'tTrains said:
Assuming they drive in Pittsburgh? Pbgh's T is functional but very light fare.
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Yes. The challenge is selling people who are car-dependent on giving up their car. We can't do that if the system breaks year round. It doesn't just break in the winter. It breaks in heat. It breaks in cold. It breaks in rain. It breaks when nothing is even happening.

I'm also worried about what the IOC is going to think after seeing the national headlines about what has happened here in Boston this week. I and all of us understand the T's situation and understand the potential for the Olympics to fix a lot of problems, but the IOC hasn't studied Boston's transit history as closely as we all have. I'm worried about the sheer optics of a city's transit system failing for 2 entire weeks.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

meddlepal said:
Predictions for the next two months:

- Lots of political rumbling about how the T is inadequate/poorly managed/poorly funded/whatever.
- Governor makes some statements about fixing the T.
- Legislature does not act; Governor cannot do anything with support from legislature.
- Governor terminates Scott as a scapegoat to make it seem like he's fixed the system somehow. By the time this occurs we'll heading towards nice Spring weather and people will be ready to forget the shitty state of the T because system shutdowns like this are a winter-only phenomenon.

Fast-forward to 2035 and the T is still a disaster and political inaction has dug such a big hole that we're forced to shutter the entire subway system and replace it all with BRT.
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While cynicism is certainly a reasonable reaction, recall that MassDOT was created by a new governor who pushed it through. If Baker is pissed off enough about the MBTA's performance, he can make something happen. There aren't any Republicans in the legislature, so it's not like the majority has to oppose him to "win" something as a party. I don't think they'll treat Baker that differently from Patrick.

datadyne007 said:
Yes. The challenge is selling people who are car-dependent on giving up their car. We can't do that if the system breaks year round. It doesn't just break in the winter. It breaks in heat. It breaks in cold. It breaks in rain. It breaks when nothing is even happening.

I'm also worried about what the IOC is going to think after seeing the national headlines about what has happened here in Boston this week. I and all of us understand the T's situation and understand the potential for the Olympics to fix a lot of problems, but the IOC hasn't studied Boston's transit history as closely as we all have. I'm worried about the sheer optics of a city's transit system failing for 2 entire weeks.
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The IOC is not the most optics-obsessed of organizations, as the Beijing and Sochi experiences demonstrated.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

Equilibria said:
Again, no major transit system in the world has had ever to deal with 73 inches of snow in 17 days. The New York Subway would likely shut down in the boroughs, the CTA would shut down, the Paris, London, Berlin, Hong Kong, etc. systems would be down for days. There is no precedent for this.

Could the T be better on a regular basis? Absolutely. Is it reasonable to expect it to be better right now? Probably not.
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I don't know about your claim that "no major transit system in the world has had ever to deal with 73 inches of snow in 17 days." What about Moscow? How do they handle it when they receive this type of winter weather: which, by the way, they do. How do they handle it when there are multiple feet of snow on the ground at all times, for months on end, every year? How does their transit system handle temperatures of -30, or even just a -15 degree morning?

I know we all like to pretend that Boston is a world-class city, and I love Boston more than any other place in the world, but I can't even imagine Boston handling this weather as well as Moscow, a city in what is essentially a 2nd world country. How does that fit with your claim that no city could deal with this?

EDIT: This is how a world-class, cold-weather city deals with the snow and cold: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/rbth/features/7361536/Moscow-spends-500m-roubles-a-year-on-battling-snow.html
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

bigeman312 said:
I don't know about your claim that "no major transit system in the world has had ever to deal with 73 inches of snow in 17 days." What about Moscow? How do they handle it when they receive this type of winter weather: which, by the way, they do. How do they handle it when there are multiple feet of snow on the ground at all times, for months on end, every year? How does their transit system handle temperatures of -30, or even just a -15 degree morning?

I know we all like to pretend that Boston is a world-class city, and I love Boston more than any other place in the world, but I can't even imagine Boston handling this weather as well as Moscow, a city in what is essentially a 2nd world country. How does that fit with your claim that no city could deal with this?

EDIT: This is how a world-class, cold-weather city deals with the snow and cold: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/rbth/features/7361536/Moscow-spends-500m-roubles-a-year-on-battling-snow.html
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The vast majority of the Moscow Metro is underground, often very deep underground.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

bigeman312 said:
I don't know about your claim that "no major transit system in the world has had ever to deal with 73 inches of snow in 17 days." What about Moscow? How do they handle it when they receive this type of winter weather: which, by the way, they do. How do they handle it when there are multiple feet of snow on the ground at all times, for months on end, every year? How does their transit system handle temperatures of -30, or even just a -15 degree morning?

I know we all like to pretend that Boston is a world-class city, and I love Boston more than any other place in the world, but I can't even imagine Boston handling this weather as well as Moscow, a city in what is essentially a 2nd world country. How does that fit with your claim that no city could deal with this?

EDIT: This is how a world-class, cold-weather city deals with the snow and cold: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/rbth/features/7361536/Moscow-spends-500m-roubles-a-year-on-battling-snow.html
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You are asking the wrong questions. How would San Francisco deal with a foot of snow? They would collapse as bad as we have with 70 inches. No one thinks SF should be able to deal with a foot of snow because they never get it. Boston never gets 70 inches. It would be fiscally irresponsible for us to be prepared for 70 inches. Why not prepare for 700 inches? Obviously that is preposterous, right? So was 70 inches until right now.

As an analogy, it isn't FLDOT's fault if you can't drive on A1A the day after a hurricane. There is only so much preparing you can do and you have to accept a certain level of recovery time from a catastrophic event. 70 inches in Boston is catastrophic even if it takes places over 2 weeks.

More importantly, it isn't going to happen again in our lifetimes. I hope we spend ZERO DOLLARS trying to learn how to cope with 70 inches of snow. It will be a bigger waste than the economic losses of these past 2 weeks.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

bigeman312 said:
I don't know about your claim that "no major transit system in the world has had ever to deal with 73 inches of snow in 17 days." What about Moscow? How do they handle it when they receive this type of winter weather: which, by the way, they do. How do they handle it when there are multiple feet of snow on the ground at all times, for months on end, every year? How does their transit system handle temperatures of -30, or even just a -15 degree morning?
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Answer: It shuts down in 10 inches of snow:

http://rt.com/news/winter-snow-russia-weather-275/

Moscow gets cold and Russia gets snow, but Moscow does not get that much snow. Granted, this article doesn't address the Metro specifically.
 
Re: MBTA & Regular Driving May Be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

I agree that it would be foolish for the MBTA to be prepared for 70 inches of snow in 17 days, or whatever it is. I agree with everyone's point about needing to prepare Boston's transit for a climate one should expect from Boston.

So, the MBTA should be prepared for Boston snow storms. This means lesser amounts than we've seen, but I am not sold, in 2015, that the MBTA is capable of handling those events. Can the T recover, in a day, from a 2-year or 5-year storm?

Let's say:

  • 1.5 feet in a day.
  • 2 feet in 3 days.
  • 30 inches in 10 days.
  • 3 feet in 2 weeks.
  • 40 inches in 3 weeks.
  • 50 inches in a month.
  • 80 inches in a season.

Taken individually, each of those totals happen somewhat rarely. Altogether though, we don't usually go too many years without one of those values being hit. Those are the events Boston should be prepared for. I have no reason to believe the T can handle those events with a 24-hour post-storm recovery in 2015. That is the standard I believe we should strive for. The T's recovery from events like this has become longer and less efficient over the years.

EDIT:

Equilibria said:
Answer: It shuts down in 10 inches of snow:

http://rt.com/news/winter-snow-russia-weather-275/

Moscow gets cold and Russia gets snow, but Moscow does not get that much snow. Granted, this article doesn't address the Metro specifically.
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Moscow Metro did not shut down from that storm. Moscow Metro can handle events like that. I am not saying we should be prepared for Moscow's winters. But your point about nobody's transit system being able to handle this weather is inaccurate, as Moscow's can.
 
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