MGH Ragon Building | 55 Fruit Street | West End

Blackbird said:
This is the only thing I could think of to warrant an awful pedestrian experience on Cambridge, but if you look at the blueprint in post #91 it doesn't look like there will be ambulances pulling up to this building.
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Still, it isn't the Joslin. There will be acute, not just chronic situations dealt in this development and I don't see actual surgeries (correct me if I'm wrong, of course) taking place in the Joslin Center building.

Joslin is a completely different scenario.

Secondly, take a walk (or a Google walk) down that area of Cambridge Street. Absolutely nothing (except a small Finagle a Bagel) is lost in this street experience in exchange for hundreds of additional beds and much needed square footage in a center that needs every inch.

Admittedly, I am one of the biggest Pedestrian Lunatics on this board. And even I am ok with this. This is one exception, and a well-earned one.

Cambridge street has a plethora of stores/shops, etc right across the street and next to this also. This isn't the same human desert experience around One Dalton.

In fact, given that large outdoor overhang/atrium (2nd pic of post#91) and I would posit that this IMPROVES the pedestrian/street level experience versus what is there now.

(Post edit: And as Equilibria pointed out in Post #91, there are two retail spaces on either side of that atrium/corridor in this development, along with a sheltered Blue Line station.) This is a huge win.
 
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shmessy said:
Still, it isn't the Joslin. There will be acute, not just chronic situations dealt in this development and I don't see actual surgeries (correct me if I'm wrong, of course) taking place in the Joslin Center building.

Joslin is a completely different scenario.
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Their ground floors will absolutely be similar. Surgeries don't need to take place behind a glass wall, overlooking the street on the first floor. It'd be another matter entirely if they had to make space for emergency vehicles, but they don't.

Secondly, take a walk (or a Google walk) down that area of Cambridge Street. Absolutely nothing (except a small Finagle a Bagel) is lost in this street experience in exchange for hundreds of additional beds and much needed square footage in a center that needs every inch.
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Talk about low bars.. :rolleyes:

(Post edit: And as Equilibria pointed out in Post #91, there are two retail spaces on either side of that atrium/corridor in this development, along with a sheltered Blue Line station.) This is a huge win.
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Agreed, and they did make a lot of improvements since their 2019 proposal. I just balk at the idea of "we can let this bad one slide because of xyz". If something better is possible, then we should ask for or expect that rather than accept mediocrity.
 
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Blackbird said:
Their ground floors will absolutely be similar. Surgeries don't need to take place behind a glass wall, overlooking the street on the first floor. It'd be another matter entirely if they had to make space for emergency vehicles, but they don't.
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Yeah I agree... tbh I actually don't care if this mgh building has ground level retail or not, but whether or not "acute situations" happen somewhere in the building seems completely irrelevant from a design perspective. Plenty of hospital buildings have retail, in fact most do, though usually not outward-facing. The Shapiro center at beth israel has a Sbx and a Freshii that open both to the inside of the building as well as directly to the outside world. I think for the most part these eateries are run through a food services contractor, and do not directly sign leases with the hospital, though I'm not sure. I think the issue is probably more financial (?tax implications) and depend who actually owns the building, rather than design. But that's just a guess. I'm not sure if Joslin owns that building (or that part with the retail at least, as additions have been made over time), and whether that plays into this.
 
I'm confused by the reaction here. Do you want more retail? Where? There's retail space along the Cambridge Street side and N. Grove Street. There's a landscaped entrance to the publicly accessible atrium, which admittedly doesn't lead to much, other than lobbies relating to hospital use, which I mean, it is a hospital complex, as well as providing a direct passage to other hospital buildings, as it is in a hospital campus. It also provides access to publicly accessible roof terraces. There's an MBTA headhouse integrated within the structure, rather than an afterthought on the sidewalk that people have to dodge and squeeze around. The only real 'dead' pedestrian experience you get along Cambridge Street is the bike parking, which I personally can't find a better spot for, looking at the Phase 1 first floor plan. Plus, that narrow dimension due to the loading dock would make retail difficult there.

I suppose the cafeteria could become a more publicly open cafe space/eatery, but other than that, there's really very little space for more retail as it is.

I've also always disregarded this side of Cambridge St. in general from having places to go to. I've only visited the Whole Foods, and that's not really even on Cambridge Street. Leading up to this site, from the State Services Center, you pass: gated in church, a retaining wall, a Bank of America, a bagel place, an eyewear store, AT&T, Au Bon Pon, and then the site. From Charles/MGH station, you have a blank wall, a travel agency, a wax place, a lobby, and then the site. The other side of the street has far more options for pedestrians. I don't understand the desire to make this hospital building site more of a retail destination if there's really nothing else on this side of the street to go to after/alongside it.


On another note, is there word on the timeline/phasing here? I wonder how the atrium will pan out if it is to connect the two phases together.
 
Absolutely nothing (except a small Finagle a Bagel)
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Somewhat ironically, that's the only business on that side of the street from Govt. Center to Charles Circle that I regularly patronized when I lived in the area. That said, that entire side of the street is a bit of a pedestrian wasteland with only a short stretch of retail at Charles River Plaza.

While I'd be sad to lose Finagle (infinitely better breakfast sandwiches than Au Bon Pain), it'd be hard to do worse than the decrepit buildings, parking lots, the "park" that is essentially a homeless encampment, parking garages, etc. that are going to be replaced.

I've also always disregarded this side of Cambridge St. in general from having places to go to.
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With the above-mentioned exception, I've typically avoided that side of the street as well unless it was directly in my travel path, but that was mostly due to the fact that there was really nothing interesting there. There is a fair amount of foot traffic, though. For folks coming from that side of town, it's a direct route to Charles/MGH and the hospital itself draws a fair amount of foot traffic as well.
 
fatnoah said:
Somewhat ironically, that's the only business on that side of the street from Govt. Center to Charles Circle that I regularly patronized when I lived in the area. That said, that entire side of the street is a bit of a pedestrian wasteland with only a short stretch of retail at Charles River Plaza.

While I'd be sad to lose Finagle (infinitely better breakfast sandwiches than Au Bon Pain), it'd be hard to do worse than the decrepit buildings, parking lots, the "park" that is essentially a homeless encampment, parking garages, etc. that are going to be replaced.


With the above-mentioned exception, I've typically avoided that side of the street as well unless it was directly in my travel path, but that was mostly due to the fact that there was really nothing interesting there. There is a fair amount of foot traffic, though. For folks coming from that side of town, it's a direct route to Charles/MGH and the hospital itself draws a fair amount of foot traffic as well.
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+1. Which is why there is almost nothing lost here, and two "external retail" places gained, along with a very nice and large open pedestrian entrance and a possible Blue Line entrance.

Win + Win + Win + Win. Oh yeah, and hundreds of more beds, operating rooms, labs and capacity for one of the greatest medical centers on earth. What's the square footage of this thing? - - it looks massive.

Do I WISH the architecture was better, and the pedestrian experience was better - sure, and I hope it is improved. But because of the overwhelming benefits mentioned above, my inclination to fight them over it is far less than, let's say, the suburban monstrosity going up in the middle of Kenmore Square right now.

***Post edit: Look at page 16 of the BPDA https://bpda.app.box.com/s/gpqzb3ygrap8axlbnvov5xc5fwzwpxzk

Publicly Accessible Exterior Space: 31,380 sq ft
Publicly Accessible Interior Space: 8,160 sq ft
Publicly Accessible Roof Terraces: 16,240 sq ft

CURRENTLY, is there anything there that any pedestrian wants to access other than the Finnagel a Bagel???? Is that anywhere close to 8,160 sq ft??????? Mind you, I'm not even counting the almost 50K square feet of publicly accessible exterior space and roof terraces coming online.
 
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eswwaa said:
A few new pics,...

www.bostonglobe.com

Here’s a look at what MGH has planned for downtown - The Boston Globe

Massachusetts General Hospital is moving forward with a $1.9 billion building project that could reshape a busy stretch of downtown Boston. Here’s a glimpse of what that might look like.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
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And a brief write-up here:
www.bostonglobe.com

MGH pushes ahead with nearly $2 billion expansion - The Boston Globe

Two new buildings on Cambridge Street would have hundreds of private rooms for patients, and the project would improve a busy commuter corridor in downtown Boston while potentially serving as a key cog in the linking of the MBTA's Red and Blue lines.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
 
Seems like we're continuing to honor a new trend in Boston hospital expansion designs:

MG1.png

From: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/22/business/heres-look-what-mgh-has-planned-downtown/
 
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THIS from the Globe article really does it for me (although the rest is great too!):


".....It could also turn out to be a substantial boost for public transit in Boston, adding momentum to the long-discussed idea to connect the Red and Blue lines via a tunnel along Cambridge Street between Bowdoin and Charles/MGH stations. The hospital project is at a key spot in between the two and MGH has agreed to put an entrance for a potential station in the lobby of one of the new buildings.
The Red-Blue connector has been kicked around for years — a 2010 study estimated it would cost at least $748 million. Having MGH on board, especially at a time when more federal money for transportation projects is starting to flow from Washington, may provide a catalyst to make it actually happen....."
 
Equilibria said:
I'll give them this: they did a better job than Children's. That's the lowest of bars, but they cleared it.
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Considering that's on the "inside" face of the hospital complex on Parkman and Blossom, I don't care quite as much, though I wish they'd used more of the facade.
 
Another interesting part of the IMP on p.63...

3.10.2.2 Nashua Street Facilities 125 Nashua Street Parcel (Former Spaulding), 99 Nashua Street Parcel and 100 Nashua Street Parcel

At the time of approval of the IMP, the Proponent will also seek approval of an amendment to Boston Zoning Map 1B/1J/1K/1L to add the 99 Nashua Street Parcel and the100 Nashua Street Parcel to the MGH IMP Area. The 125 Nashua Street, 99 Nashua Street and 100 Nashua Street Parcels are depicted on Figure 3-8. The FAR for the 125 Nashua Street Parcel is 2.19 and maximum building height is approximately 105 feet, both measured in accordance with the Code. The FAR for the 99 Nashua Street Parcel is less than 0.1 and maximum building height is 10, as the parcel consists primarily of a surface parking lot with a small guard house of approximately 100 sf. The FAR for the 100 Nashua Street Parcel is zero and maximum building height is zero, as the parcel consists entirely of a surface parking lot. There are no proposed projects on any of these parcels. Allowed uses, building dimensions, parking and loading spaces on the 125 Nashua Street, 99 Nashua Street and 100 Nashua Street Parcels will include those uses, building dimensions, parking spaces and loading spaces detailed in Tables 2-2, 5-2 and 5-4 and the IMP without the requirement for design review.

So basically MGH is going to add these parcels behind North Station into the IMP and use them for surface parking for the foreseeable future? Seems like an insane waste.
 
SuffolkHeights11 said:
Another interesting part of the IMP on p.63...

3.10.2.2 Nashua Street Facilities 125 Nashua Street Parcel (Former Spaulding), 99 Nashua Street Parcel and 100 Nashua Street Parcel

At the time of approval of the IMP, the Proponent will also seek approval of an amendment to Boston Zoning Map 1B/1J/1K/1L to add the 99 Nashua Street Parcel and the100 Nashua Street Parcel to the MGH IMP Area. The 125 Nashua Street, 99 Nashua Street and 100 Nashua Street Parcels are depicted on Figure 3-8. The FAR for the 125 Nashua Street Parcel is 2.19 and maximum building height is approximately 105 feet, both measured in accordance with the Code. The FAR for the 99 Nashua Street Parcel is less than 0.1 and maximum building height is 10, as the parcel consists primarily of a surface parking lot with a small guard house of approximately 100 sf. The FAR for the 100 Nashua Street Parcel is zero and maximum building height is zero, as the parcel consists entirely of a surface parking lot. There are no proposed projects on any of these parcels. Allowed uses, building dimensions, parking and loading spaces on the 125 Nashua Street, 99 Nashua Street and 100 Nashua Street Parcels will include those uses, building dimensions, parking spaces and loading spaces detailed in Tables 2-2, 5-2 and 5-4 and the IMP without the requirement for design review.

So basically MGH is going to add these parcels behind North Station into the IMP and use them for surface parking for the foreseeable future? Seems like an insane waste.
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Not the first time a local hospital has land banked via surface parking :rolleyes:
 
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