MGM Music Hall (née Fenway Theater) | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

[Suffolk 83]

Loss of 290 event-day parking spaces between the Fenway garage on Ipswich (repurposed) and the surface lot at Van Ness and Ipswich (which will now house the broadcast trucks). Stipulated that almost nobody should drive to the games to begin with, but looks like even more parking scarcity will drive those prices ever higher.

If you drive your car to Red Sox games you deserve any parking/traffic issues you get. Take the T its a rite of passage for Sox games almost no matter where you live. With the commuter station right around the corner there's no excuses.

I can walk/bike/take green line/bus to games now but growing up in the burbs we took the T every single time.

 

[jass]

Re: Rex Sox Theater [12-28 Lansdowne St]

What do you mean by Yawkey? The former Yawkey Way is now Jersey St and that is on the opposite side of the photo above, with not much happening when the Sox are not playing. The image shows the intersection of Lansdowne (R) and Ipswitch (L) with Ipswitch turning into Van Ness at the top left. I think you mean Lansdowne St?

You are right, I did mean Lansdowne, but in truth both should be pedestrianized.

And by pedestrianized, I mean in the European style, where trucks and other commercial vehicles are allowed in at certain times (say 6am to 11am) and the rest of the day it is only for pedestrians.

 

[Lrfox]

If you drive your car to Red Sox games you deserve any parking/traffic issues you get. Take the T its a rite of passage for Sox games almost no matter where you live. With the commuter station right around the corner there's no excuses.

I can walk/bike/take green line/bus to games now but growing up in the burbs we took the T every single time.

Absolutely. And honestly, if you don't feel like taking the T from the end of one of the lines, you can drive into the city and uber/lyft for not much more than T fare for 2 or more people. Many downtown garages are under $15 after 4/5pm. And from there you can walk, take the T a short distance, or hail a rideshare. There's almost zero excuse for parking right at Fenway unless you simply don't care about money and traffic.

 

[jass]

Absolutely. And honestly, if you don't feel like taking the T from the end of one of the lines, you can drive into the city and uber/lyft for not much more than T fare for 2 or more people. Many downtown garages are under $15 after 4/5pm. And from there you can walk, take the T a short distance, or hail a rideshare. There's almost zero excuse for parking right at Fenway unless you simply don't care about money and traffic.

Have we forgotten that the plan to deck the pike includes a 2,000 car garage?

 

[Lrfox]

Have we forgotten that the plan to deck the pike includes a 2,000 car garage?

Actually yes, I wasn't thinking that when I responded. It'll certainly make game day parking easier. Regardless, the loss of parking spaces here is insignificant.

 

[CSTH]

Actually yes, I wasn't thinking that when I responded. It'll certainly make game day parking easier.

I mean, maybe. It'll take 90+minutes to clear 2000 cars out of that garage once the game is over...

 

[JumboBuc]

GENTRIFICATION OF THE UPPER BLEACHERS!!!

(Kidding, but also really not kidding...)

Center field bleacher seats are worse than RF corner?!? Are you out of your mind? One of the worst takes I've ever heard on here.

I was fine with the theatre but not if they're going to mess with the bleachers. This is just another way theyre trying to squeeze another dime out of ticket payers. I realize other stadiums are now doing this but they have low attendance and bigger stadiums to begin with. The Red Sox make plenty of money off of Fenway, they dont need this. I'm enraged by this

^ This x 100. Fenway wouldn't be Fenway without the upper bleachers. The upper bleachers are one of the last places in Fenway that is still for -- for lack of a better term -- "real fans." Replacing them with higher priced table service for fewer fans would be a disgrace.

The right field roof deck is great because it added a new fan experience without sacrificing existing seats. Same for the Monster seats. I'm fine with higher priced development in Fenway Park (as in the housing market) as long as it infills unused space, but I'm not okay with it if it displaces existing lower-priced seating options. This project would decrease Fenway's total capacity by getting rid of the cheapest seats in the house. That's the totally wrong direction to be going.

I'm all for the theater. I'm also for expanded concession space above the upper bleachers and some event space beyond the bleachers. I am not for removing the top 6 rows of bleachers to fit in higher priced seats.

And I suspect the Red Sox anticipate blowback over these plans. Note that all the press about this project has led with the theater and also mentioned the concession/event space, but the removal of 6 rows of bleacher seats is tucked deep in the fine print.

 

[Mongo]

Absolutely. And honestly, if you don't feel like taking the T from the end of one of the lines, you can drive into the city and uber/lyft for not much more than T fare for 2 or more people. Many downtown garages are under $15 after 4/5pm. And from there you can walk, take the T a short distance, or hail a rideshare. There's almost zero excuse for parking right at Fenway unless you simply don't care about money and traffic.

Pru parking is $18 with a redsox ticket, and it's a pretty easy walk from there.

 

[kingofsheeba]

Honestly, as a Boston resident I'd go and oppose this theatre just in spite of the bleachers diet

Seriously? You would act that petty?

It's a necessary evil and sometime you have to crack a few yolks to make a few omelettes. Will the prices be through the roof? Probably. Will it take away from whatever authenticity this park has left? All signs point to yes. But protesting the removal of these seats won't stop Jack and Jane Tourist from buying up these suites.

When the NIMBYs and purists stopped the demolition of Fenway back in the early 00's, John Henry was put in limbo. He preserves Fenway as is, then the structural components of the park come down and then a new problem arises. Imagine being at a game when the actual stadium collapses? And for what? To appease a bunch of rich, sociopaths from Brookline or a bunch of baseball purists? No, Fenway is landlocked and FSG has to work with what it has. And if it means jacking up ticket and concession prices in order to continuously renovate and add on and the so be it.

I'd rather go to one game a year, eat and drink outside the park and enjoy the game inside an up-to-date facility, than pay next to nothing for tickets and watch as the park decays.

 

[Equilibria]

Seriously? You would act that petty?

It's a necessary evil and sometime you have to crack a few yolks to make a few omelettes. Will the prices be through the roof? Probably. Will it take away from whatever authenticity this park has left? All signs point to yes. But protesting the removal of these seats won't stop Jack and Jane Tourist from buying up these suites.

When the NIMBYs and purists stopped the demolition of Fenway back in the early 00's, John Henry was put in limbo. He preserves Fenway as is, then the structural components of the park come down and then a new problem arises. Imagine being at a game when the actual stadium collapses? And for what? To appease a bunch of rich, sociopaths from Brookline or a bunch of baseball purists? No, Fenway is landlocked and FSG has to work with what it has. And if it means jacking up ticket and concession prices in order to continuously renovate and add on and the so be it.

I'd rather go to one game a year, eat and drink outside the park and enjoy the game inside an up-to-date facility, than pay next to nothing for tickets and watch as the park decays.

John Henry runs a business, and like any business one of the expenses is physical plant. I'm not sure how upkeep at Fenway compares to newer parks, but stopping it from falling down is one of the things he can and should be expected to pay for out of the money tree he's built for himself by jacking up ticket prices and creating NESN.

You make it sound like preserving/renovating Fenway has made the Red Sox a money-losing business, when in fact they make money hand over fist and are just beginning to invest it in buying up and building on all the plots they can get their mitts on in one of the most expensive neighborhoods around.

 

[stick n move]

GENTRIFICATION OF THE UPPER BLEACHERS!!!

(Kidding, but also really not kidding...)



^ This x 100. Fenway wouldn't be Fenway without the upper bleachers. The upper bleachers are one of the last places in Fenway that is still for -- for lack of a better term -- "real fans." Replacing them with higher priced table service for fewer fans would be a disgrace.

The right field roof deck is great because it added a new fan experience without sacrificing existing seats. Same for the Monster seats. I'm fine with higher priced development in Fenway Park (as in the housing market) as long as it infills unused space, but I'm not okay with it if it displaces existing lower-priced seating options. This project would decrease Fenway's total capacity by getting rid of the cheapest seats in the house. That's the totally wrong direction to be going.

I'm all for the theater. I'm also for expanded concession space above the upper bleachers and some event space beyond the bleachers. I am not for removing the top 6 rows of bleachers to fit in higher priced seats.

And I suspect the Red Sox anticipate blowback over these plans. Note that all the press about this project has led with the theater and also mentioned the concession/event space, but the removal of 6 rows of bleacher seats is tucked deep in the fine print.

The point of this project is not to remove 6 rows of bleachers to fit in higher priced seats though. The point is to add the theater. If thats what this was I’d agree 100%, but really the removal of the bleachers is a byproduct of adding the performing arts theater. With a 5,000 person capacity, which is the target area that we are lacking, the neighborhood/city will benefit greatly from this imo.

It looks like theres actually room to add a pretty good amount of bleachers/seating on top of this too. We know the park needs as much capacity as they can get, being one of the smallest. If this were to happen then literally everyone benefits here.

*Remove that New Balance, Dunkin donuts, Ford sign and you could add bleachers with a couple thousand new seats right on top of the new structure for the theater. Theyll be building a brand new structure, so it could be pretty easily designed in.

**The first row of new bleachers could be elevated with a pass through to the entire roof behind. This area behind the bleachers on the roof of the venue could have the added concessions, bathrooms...etc and either be enclosed, open, or half and half. So on top of the new theater could be added space. I cant see why they wouldnt want to do this.


The size of this is pretty huge. Adding bleachers to right field, then using the rooftop to expand the park would add a substantial amount of room.


Between the tops of the new Fenway signs is where the new area could go, then on the stadium end would be the new bleachers. No reason not to do this. Plus the render shows them doing a pretty good job of blending it in too.

 

[jklo]

My understanding is that there is to be some sort of meeting/conference room type space near/above the new pavillion with views of inside Fenway Park but would not be in use during games.

 

[kingofsheeba]

John Henry runs a business, and like any business one of the expenses is physical plant. I'm not sure how upkeep at Fenway compares to newer parks, but stopping it from falling down is one of the things he can and should be expected to pay for out of the money tree he's built for himself by jacking up ticket prices and creating NESN.

You make it sound like preserving/renovating Fenway has made the Red Sox a money-losing business, when in fact they make money hand over fist and are just beginning to invest it in buying up and building on all the plots they can get their mitts on in one of the most expensive neighborhoods around.

You completely misunderstood. I never said that JH wasn't a businessman. The complete opposite actually. He IS a businessman. He also has other ventures (Rousch Racing, Liverpool, etc etc). He has money but with the costs of construction materials rising and he's gotta grease the palms of these city officials, NIMBYs, and other businesspersons.

There's gotta be a little bit of supply and demand. It's expensive to maintain that thing. I for one admire him for doing what he has done with the place. It took a while but he not only put a great product on the field but he has invested $$$ in the building. Someone's paying for it somewhere.

 

[JumboBuc]

The “point” is not to remove 6 rows of bleachers to fit in higher priced seats though. If thats what this was I’d agree 100%. But really the removal of the bleachers is a byproduct of adding a wonderful performing arts theater with a 5,000 person capacity- which just happens to be the target area that we are lacking, and the city will benefit greatly from.

So this brings me to a point... It looks like theres actually room to add a ton of bleachers/seating on top of this. Why isnt this included? We all know they need as much capacity as they can get. If they look for community input and we bring this up maybe theyll do it. If this were to happen then literally everyone benefits here and itd be great.

No, removing the bleacher seats absolutely is the "point."

Look at the diagrams in the PNF. The "Fenway Theater" doesn't come anywhere near the bleachers. The theater could absolutely be built without touching the park. It's the "Fenway Park Improvements" part of the project that removes the bleachers and replaces them with the table service section. The removal of the bleachers is the so called "improvement."

 

[odurandina]

This project is so carelessly mediocre, i know it will be approved–

go u/c–and be completed in (NYC time).

 

[Arlington]

"We all know they need as much capacity as they can get"
How do we know this?

My assumption would be that they, being capitalists, "need" the most $ per sq ft they can get, and since they have a monopoly on "Red Sox Experiences" the normal strategy is to find ways to raise prices. Sometimes by pure market power (which involves raising prices across the board) but sometimes by turning bleacher seats into differentiated experiences (in the shade)

 

[Charlie_mta]

I think the development will be better than a parking lot. The rendering looks okay to me.

 

[stick n move]

Heres what Im saying though. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Add the theater, and while you're designing the new structure for the theater underneath, build in expanded bleachers above. Something along these lines. This illustration isn't perfect, but theres plenty of room.





Then use the whole roof, the white part, for expanded concessions, bathrooms, concourse, whatever is needed. So you'd get the theater, substantially expanded bleachers, and more concourse room.

It wouldn't have to be this big, but the potential is there for added bleachers here. It would be the perfect time because the space needed underneath will be demo’d and rebuilt and you can see where supports would go if following the current trajectory.

 

[Suffolk 83]

The point of this project is not to remove 6 rows of bleachers to fit in higher priced seats though. The point is to add the theater.

Dude, no, you're wrong. The point of removing the bleachers isn't for the theatre, its not even for improving concessions at the park. Gotta read the fine print

From the PNF:

The current scope of these improvements include the removal of the uppermost six (6)
rows of Right Field Bleacher seats (approx. 450 seats), replacing them in part, with
counter and table seating (approx. 150 seats), resulting in a net reduction of
approximately 300 seats within Fenway Park. There will be no change in Fenway Park’s
legal capacity as a result of this Project

 

[Suffolk 83]

Seriously? You would act that petty?

It's a necessary evil and sometime you have to crack a few yolks to make a few omelettes. Will the prices be through the roof? Probably. Will it take away from whatever authenticity this park has left? All signs point to yes. But protesting the removal of these seats won't stop Jack and Jane Tourist from buying up these suites.

When the NIMBYs and purists stopped the demolition of Fenway back in the early 00's, John Henry was put in limbo. He preserves Fenway as is, then the structural components of the park come down and then a new problem arises. Imagine being at a game when the actual stadium collapses? And for what? To appease a bunch of rich, sociopaths from Brookline or a bunch of baseball purists? No, Fenway is landlocked and FSG has to work with what it has. And if it means jacking up ticket and concession prices in order to continuously renovate and add on and the so be it.

I'd rather go to one game a year, eat and drink outside the park and enjoy the game inside an up-to-date facility, than pay next to nothing for tickets and watch as the park decays.

I try not to wade in the muck too much here but really? This argument is so nonsensical its tough to know where to start.

Youre against "bunch of rich, sociopaths from Brookline" but you're sympathetic towards John Henry? He's probably a resident of Brookline himself!

You can appreciate that the Red Sox saved Fenway Park for whatever reasons they had and you can appreciate they won 4 world series this century and you can still be staunchly against opposed to them cutting out cheap seats for the sole reason of making more money. These ideas arent mutually exclusive

One could make the argument the Sox and Fenway Park are private entities and its up to them what they do with their property. I would have agreed with you 10 years ago but after the sweetheart deal they got on "Yawkey" way at the time from the city and the preferential treatment they get from the city on development projects in the area I'd have to strongly argue Boston residents do have a say in what goes on there.

You think this is a coincidence they announced the cheap seat diet the same time as the theatre? Its to bury it. People love the bleachers and on its own it could have very well gotten a ton of criticism as it should.

No, Fenway is landlocked and FSG has to work with what it has. And if it means jacking up ticket and concession prices in order to continuously renovate and add on and the so be it

You act like the Fenway group is hard up! Cash strapped! They've made piles and piles of money off the Red Sox I promise you. And that might be small in comparison to what they are making off Liverpool. We really gotta stop turning billionaires into sympathetic causes, its pathetic