Middle East Nightclub Redevelopment | 468-480 Mass Ave / 6 Brookline St. | Cambridge

[GW2500]

And to add to that, a bunch of the rehersal spaces, that could be a place for an underground concert, are making way for condos or life sciences as well. Not to mention the needed space for a local band to practice and hon their craft.

 

[kingofsheeba]

Not sure how many of you guys are into the local music scene, but I’m familiar with a ton of well-known unsigned heroes in the Boston scene. The Middle East is a venue that has left my friends split. Mismanagement, greed, and allegations of sexual harassment amongst the owners have musicians split. Yes, it’s coming back in a different incarnation. Will the problems still exist? Depends.

The last time I was at the ME, I saw their security staff drag a patron by his hair and tossed him on the sidewalk with ease and laughed about it. Mind you that this wasn’t during a show. This was at 6:30 on a Wednesday night in June 2016. So, no love lost for me. Good food though.

 

[BeyondRevenue]

And to add to that, a bunch of the rehersal spaces, that could be a place for an underground concert, are making way for condos or life sciences as well. Not to mention the needed space for a local band to practice and hon their craft.

So much potential for cool spaces around here... just not downtown.
I can think of at least three spaces along the Harbor or Chelsea River that would be ideal for a throwdown!
Oooh! And a local band that grew out of that could call themselves The 111s... the One Elevens... like the Chelsea bus. Get it?
Oh, and if the MBTA would part with the old signal house on the Cambridge side of the river under the Zakim, it would make a legendary space! No neighbors. Like they say in the horror movies, "Go ahead and scream, we're miles from anywhere!"

 

[Plen-T-Pak]

The further out you go, the harder it is be accessible to a critical mass of people to create a "scene". Aside from that, high cost of living *everywhere* and expensive rents are not usually compatible with a healthy scene.

 

[DBM]

Not sure how many of you guys are into the local music scene, but I’m familiar with a ton of well-known unsigned heroes in the Boston scene. The Middle East is a venue that has left my friends split. Mismanagement, greed, and allegations of sexual harassment amongst the owners have musicians split. Yes, it’s coming back in a different incarnation. Will the problems still exist? Depends.

The last time I was at the ME, I saw their security staff drag a patron by his hair and tossed him on the sidewalk with ease and laughed about it. Mind you that this wasn’t during a show. This was at 6:30 on a Wednesday night in June 2016. So, no love lost for me. Good food though.

Lest we forget: the acoustics were a horribly bad joke--this, at a venue that is literally just steps away from the greatest collection of engineers assembled in human history. To those who might reply, "oh, the wretched acoustics--that was all part of the scruffy charm!", please, no. It's one thing to have graffiti-scrawled walls--that is ambiance. It's quite another to be such a miserably-engineered dump that you can't. even. deliver. on the single most important variable for staging successful live shows.

 

[iamdjmichael]

I could see the Newmarket area, Everett waterfront, and/or South Boston near the convention center all having the potential to transform into Boston‘s version of New York‘s East Williamsburg tbh. Eventually having a good mix of grungy-ish bars, big party/ club venues and near enough to transit

 

[kingofsheeba]

I could see the Newmarket area, Everett waterfront, and/or South Boston near the convention center all having the potential to transform into Boston‘s version of New York‘s East Williamsburg tbh. Eventually having a good mix of grungy-ish bars, big party/ club venues and near enough to transit

Newmarket? Like The Stone Church perhaps?

 

[bigpicture7]

There's a community meeting for this on Jan 26th:

Pre-Application Community Meetings - CDD - City of Cambridge, Massachusetts

Information related to community engagement activities undertaken by developers before submitting a Planning Board special permit application.

www.cambridgema.gov

Meeting flyer includes a mildly updated render:

 

[bigpicture7]

I missed this till now, but apparently there was a Central Square Advisory Committee meeting earlier this month, for which a substantial design package has been posted for review:

Central Square Advisory Committee - CDD - City of Cambridge, Massachusetts

The Central Square Advisory Committee is appointed by the City Manager to undertake all large project reviews, receive all applications for variances and special permits for activities within the Central Square Overlay District, and monitor the progress of the Central Square non-zoning...

www.cambridgema.gov

^Therein, here's the design package:
6 Brookline Street (Middle East) - Application Materials

^The last few pages seem to have several new renderings, such as:

 

[stick n move]

Looks good.

 

[sm89]

This is an as of right project and I think they're making a good effort to respond to community feedback. I really wish the renders were more realistic (why no blues?).

 

[chrisbrat]

This replaces funky, character-rich, historical Central Square with Anytown, USA nothing. Plus I will believe that they’ll deliver on the standing promise to include a “similarly sized and scaled performance venue to replace the existing one(s)” when I see it. Regardless, with development that’d mean at least 3 years of no live music in Central (no rock, anyway). I’m sure the people who pay a million for a condo in that building are going to love living over a rock club. Anyone remember what happened with Church in Fenway? Folks bought property on the cheap bc it was next to a live music venue and then immediately got all indignant NIMBY about the noise, called the cops nightly, shut the place down and then sold their places for absurd profit. Central has already shut down outdoor music for the same reason. This is a fucking tragedy and we’re just watching it happen. Welcome to Boston! If you wanna see or hear anything fun, go to Salem or New Bedford or Worcester!

 

[bigpicture7]

This replaces funky, character-rich, historical Central Square with Anytown, USA nothing. Plus I will believe that they’ll deliver on the standing promise to include a “similarly sized and scaled performance venue to replace the existing one(s)” when I see it. Regardless, with development that’d mean at least 3 years of no live music in Central (no rock, anyway). I’m sure the people who pay a million for a condo in that building are going to love living over a rock club. Anyone remember what happened with Church in Fenway? Folks bought property on the cheap bc it was next to a live music venue and then immediately got all indignant NIMBY about the noise, called the cops nightly, shut the place down and then sold their places for absurd profit. Central has already shut down outdoor music for the same reason. This is a fucking tragedy and we’re just watching it happen. Welcome to Boston! If you wanna see or hear anything fun, go to Salem or New Bedford or Worcester!

I don't deny there's some risk to Central's cultural vibe, but there are some key points where you're off base here. One is that this is a hotel, not condos. So the issues you cite regarding Church in Fenway are not pertinent. Secondly, this is a from-scratch new build where the main/bigger music venue will be in the basement and there will be another level (ground level) of lobby/restaurants/smaller venue before the hotel rooms - so, it should be possible to sufficiently sound-isolate the music venue.

EDIT: if you dive into the plans I posted above, you'll notice that the proposed venue in the basement is for 700 people. That's nothing to scoff at. I am also a proponent of more hotel space in/near central square. Hotel guests tend to spend money on nightlife, which can help the Central area in the long run. If this weren't a hotel, I'd agree with many of your complaints, so I am glad they are proposing doing the right thing for this spot.

 

[chrisbrat]

EDIT: if you dive into the plans I posted above, you'll notice that the proposed venue in the basement is for 700 people. That's nothing to scoff at.

I'm not scoffing at the notion of a venue with a capacity for 700 people.

Local bands don't play at 700-capacity venues. Smaller touring bands don't get booked into 700-capacity venues.

Abbey Lounge, Penalty Box, The Rat, Bunratty's, Church/Linwood, Chopping Block, Radio, ONCE -- those are the kinda places that support the development of a creative music scene (not limited to "rock").

Once this happens it'll be the Midway (a bit of a trek for most) and Jungle. And that's it.

Your point about this development being a hotel and not condos is well taken and I agree it ups the chances of the venue (possibly) happening, but it won't be a replacement for the Middle East and/or Sonia (nee TT's) b/c it won't serve as a spot for up and coming artists to hone their craft.

Aerosmith, The Cars, The Dropkicks, New Edition, Gang Starr, Juliana Hatfield, The Lemonheads, Bosstones, The Cars, Tracy Chapman -- Boston has an impressive list of musicians who started out playing SMALL local spots and went on to big things (and plenty of worthy artists who never graduated to arenas and theaters), but that list is in danger of never being added to again in any meaningful way.

Smaller venues are dying at an unprecedented clip.

As of this writing, there is exactly *one* remaining commercial practice space/building within the city limits (bye Sound Museum, Denby, EMF, Starlab, etc. etc.).

There are plenty of 700-2000 seat venues in the city and we've added a few more in recent years -- Roadrunner, MGM Music Hall, Sinclair.

We'll be joining San Fran as a "Global City" with no present-tense local music & arts scene.

 

[obvious_bicycle]

This replaces funky, character-rich, historical Central Square with Anytown, USA nothing. Plus I will believe that they’ll deliver on the standing promise to include a “similarly sized and scaled performance venue to replace the existing one(s)” when I see it. Regardless, with development that’d mean at least 3 years of no live music in Central (no rock, anyway). I’m sure the people who pay a million for a condo in that building are going to love living over a rock club. Anyone remember what happened with Church in Fenway? Folks bought property on the cheap bc it was next to a live music venue and then immediately got all indignant NIMBY about the noise, called the cops nightly, shut the place down and then sold their places for absurd profit. Central has already shut down outdoor music for the same reason. This is a fucking tragedy and we’re just watching it happen. Welcome to Boston! If you wanna see or hear anything fun, go to Salem or New Bedford or Worcester!

Cities change—build it.

 

[bigpicture7]

I'm not scoffing at the notion of a venue with a capacity for 700 people.

Local bands don't play at 700-capacity venues. Smaller touring bands don't get booked into 700-capacity venues.

Abbey Lounge, Penalty Box, The Rat, Bunratty's, Church/Linwood, Chopping Block, Radio, ONCE -- those are the kinda places that support the development of a creative music scene (not limited to "rock").

Once this happens it'll be the Midway (a bit of a trek for most) and Jungle. And that's it.

Your point about this development being a hotel and not condos is well taken and I agree it ups the chances of the venue (possibly) happening, but it won't be a replacement for the Middle East and/or Sonia (nee TT's) b/c it won't serve as a spot for up and coming artists to hone their craft.

Aerosmith, The Cars, The Dropkicks, New Edition, Gang Starr, Juliana Hatfield, The Lemonheads, Bosstones, The Cars, Tracy Chapman -- Boston has an impressive list of musicians who started out playing SMALL local spots and went on to big things (and plenty of worthy artists who never graduated to arenas and theaters), but that list is in danger of never being added to again in any meaningful way.

Smaller venues are dying at an unprecedented clip.

As of this writing, there is exactly *one* remaining commercial practice space/building within the city limits (bye Sound Museum, Denby, EMF, Starlab, etc. etc.).

There are plenty of 700-2000 seat venues in the city and we've added a few more in recent years -- Roadrunner, MGM Music Hall, Sinclair.

We'll be joining San Fran as a "Global City" with no present-tense local music & arts scene.

Thanks very much for clarifying, and for all of this detail. I now much better understand your point.

However, you also helped me understand their posted plans a bit better too...
See pages 2, 3, and 4 of the PDF. If I interpret correctly, there will be a 700 capacity venue in the basement, and a 350 capacity venue on the ground level.
The table on Page 2 states "The Sonia Music Venue will be entirely at elevation 20.42'. Access to the venue will be by exterior ramp and/or stairs..."

In other words (as I read it), the 350-cap space at ground level will continue to operate as 'Sonia'

I feel old and have been away from this scene for many years, but I did not realize that 'Sonia' was the renamed T.T.'s. I just figured that the upstairs music space they were citing was going to be more cafe-like/etc (also I figured there'd be too much noise risk). But it could be that they really are trying to recreate Sonia on the ground level.

You would appreciate this article in particular:

Redevelopment of historic Middle East rock clubs to be introduced at Sept. 29 community meeting - Cambridge Day

A community meeting will be held Sept. 29 to talk about proposed changes at the Middle East nightclub and restaurant complex in Central Square, which is expected to stay open into 2024 and return to business after redevelopment.

www.cambridgeday.com

“I’m trying to find way to put uses back in the square that otherwise are not financially feasible,” said Barrett, a musician who said his bands have played venues throughout Central Square and nearby over the decades, including the Middle East (and met his wife at the former T.T. the Bear’s Place). Many of those stages are now gone. “I don’t want to lose any more music venues or any of the things that we have in our cultural district. I want Central Square to embrace what it really is, an arts and entertainment district – with places for housing as well, but I don’t think this is a good site for that.”

 

[chrisbrat]

Cities change—build it.

Worked well for the West End/Scollay, huh?

Yes, just "build it" w/o thinking big picture. Brilliant.

 

[chrisbrat]

Thanks very much for clarifying, and for all of this detail. I now much better understand your point.

However, you also helped me understand their posted plans a bit better too...
See pages 2, 3, and 4 of the PDF. If I interpret correctly, there will be a 700 capacity venue in the basement, and a 350 capacity venue on the ground level.
The table on Page 2 states "The Sonia Music Venue will be entirely at elevation 20.42'. Access to the venue will be by exterior ramp and/or stairs..."

In other words (as I read it), the 350-cap space at ground level will continue to operate as 'Sonia'

I feel old and have been away from this scene for many years, but I did not realize that 'Sonia' was the renamed T.T.'s. I just figured that the upstairs music space they were citing was going to be more cafe-like/etc (also I figured there'd be too much noise risk). But it could be that they really are trying to recreate Sonia on the ground level.

Well that would, indeed, be good news if that ultimately happens. Thank you for reading the docs and sharing the info. Fingers crossed that it happens!

 

[shmessy]

[QUOTE="chrisbrat, post: 451739, member: 7586"

………..Aerosmith, The Cars, The Dropkicks, New Edition, Gang Starr, Juliana Hatfield, The Lemonheads, Bosstones, The Cars, Tracy Chapman -- Boston has an impressive list of musicians who started out playing SMALL local spots and went on to big things (and plenty of worthy artists who never graduated to arenas and theaters), but that list is in danger of never being added to again in any meaningful way…….
[/QUOTE]

That’s a pretty nostalgic list.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but that list of artists/bands all developed pre-internet. The problem was the IT revolution 30+ years ago. The horse left the barn well before the small clubs died out. Very few big or intermediate names today get their starts in small clubs. The most recent I can come up with is Brandi Carlile and that would be circa 2006-2007. Seems bands like Beach Bunny got through on YouTube or TikTok. I’m not saying it is better. I, too, miss the Rat. My dad missed the big bands at Norumbega Park and the Coconut Grove.

 

[Aprehensive_Words]

That's all true, but the IT revolution had another side effect: Small-time artists can have fan bases spread all over the country, in seemingly random places. When they tour, it's at places about the size of the Middle East Upstairs (194 ppl) or Sonia (~350 ppl), not MGM Music Hall (3,000 ppl) or Roadrunner (3,500 ppl). If we have a venue ecosystem slanted towards the latter, all we'll get are brand names -- fine if you're into that, but it definitely limits everyone's options in terms of out-of-town talent. I know I, personally, get a lot of enjoyment when a local act from one of the other cities I've lived in comes to town, even on a Tuesday night.

It feels like there's an analogue to the housing debate, here. One of the YIMBY crowd's most powerful ethical arguments is that restricted supply of low-barrier-to-entry (i.e. cheap, in the case of housing) is that it puts a straightjacket on people's potential via where they can work and what non-work things (arts, politics, community involvement, etc.) they are able to engage in because their time is sucked up commuting and their money is sucked up by housing.

Translated to the music world, that argument says small venues are important not because we want to regain some amorphous crown as the national seat of culture, but because so many people who already live here are being locked out of a chance to moonlight in a good mom band on Thursday nights at a local watering hole, even if they have no desire or ambition to get any bigger than that. It's a small-d democratic problem, under this line of thinking.

This isn't an argument for or against the Middle East being redeveloped, obviously, but it's certainly clear that a lot of municipalities in Boston don't seem to have much of a plan for encouraging more small live music venues.