Millennium Tower (Filene's) | 426 Washington Street | Downtown

[TheRifleman]

Re: Filene's

Consumers are lazy they are more like SHEEP following the herd. The money should never have been available to begin with. Middle class wages have everything to do with this. Who do you think would have bought those Filene's condos for 500K per unit? The problem was that everything was getting so inflated with low interest rates but average worker's income was becoming so leveraged paying for overpriced real estate that he never thought they he might actually lose his job after that. This problem is so deep that I can't even get into this.

Overall they paid way too much for this site. Even if they build this it will be dead money for a long time. 10-20 years before they see some type of return. They will be lucky to break-even.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Filene's

Consumers are lazy they are more like SHEEP following the herd. The money should never have been available to begin with. Middle class wages have everything to do with this. Who do you think would have bought those Filene's condos for 500K per unit? The problem was that everything was getting so inflated with low interest rates but average worker's income was becoming so leveraged paying for overpriced real estate that he never thought they he might actually lose his job after that. This problem is so deep that I can't even get into this.

Overall they paid way too much for this site. Even if they build this it will be dead money for a long time. 10-20 years before they see some type of return. They will be lucky to break-even.

These are the reasons, not the wages. Whether or not the middle class were paid more or not, they still wouldn't be able to pay for the inflated prices. Not to mention higher wages means that a few people will get more share of the pot. In other words, in order to pay for higher wages, some people would have to be laid off to do so.

 

[choo]

Re: Filene's

Consumers are lazy.

So much for the rational market.

A big problem now is that the subprime bubble has passed and more "prime" mortgages are being effected as people suffer job and income loss.

I remember reading an article (and there have been many on this topic) about the income gap widening. Rich got richer, the middle class wages stayed stagnant. I thought to myself, this is going to catch up. People very soon aren't going to be able to afford things they are buying. In a nutshell, I think that's what happen, people simply lived beyond their means. It is documented that the U.S. savings rate was under 0 for a time, meaning people were just taking on debt with no savings. This fact adds to the wisdom of a line from the most unlikely of sources, Men in Black, that I believe is true, especially in this case. "A person can be smart. People are stupid."

 

[BosDevelop]

Re: Filene's

Banker & Tradesman - August 10, 2009
"There?s talk now that it could take years ? maybe even a decade ? to get this project back on track."

Unfortunately, this is exactly what I predicted several months ago in this thread. No way this project gets done before 2014 and more likely 2015 or beyond. Awful.

 

[GW2500]

Re: Filene's

Is there a main cause for why construction costs are getting so high? It seems at this rate every tower will cost a billion dollars to construct and will not be sustainable for much longer.

 

[bostonbred]

Re: Filene's

Consumers are lazy they are more like SHEEP following the herd. The money should never have been available to begin with. Middle class wages have everything to do with this. Who do you think would have bought those Filene's condos for 500K per unit? The problem was that everything was getting so inflated with low interest rates but average worker's income was becoming so leveraged paying for overpriced real estate that he never thought they he might actually lose his job after that. This problem is so deep that I can't even get into this. /QUOTE]

Mr. gunman you are one of my FAVORITE posters bcuz you not ballwasher man!!! But not so much sheepish people. But GREEDY ones stirup most everymans' inner restlesnes with "BUY this pretty watch or girl no love you unless BIG shiney new car or BUY this shit from Billy Hays." All day. Long time. All nite. Brainswashed by it, but it all DIRTY. Man in street has no chance here and becomes man LIVING in street!!! THINGS are God now, not the gods. Streetman praying face first down on assfalt because he on his ass.

anyway. This Filene hole is our hell.

 

[BarbaricManchurian]

Re: Filene's

Is there a main cause for why construction costs are getting so high? It seems at this rate every tower will cost a billion dollars to construct and will not be sustainable for much longer.

They recently dropped dramatically due to the recession, but of course there isn't increased construction activity because of the recession. But, I'd expect the construction costs to go up soon as the economy improves, there's more construction world wide than ever before so that will obviously have an impact on raw material costs.

 

[bbfen]

Re: Filene's

They recently dropped dramatically due to the recession, but of course there isn't increased construction activity because of the recession. But, I'd expect the construction costs to go up soon as the economy improves, there's more construction world wide than ever before so that will obviously have an impact on raw material costs.

Is it raw material costs, or labor costs? I've seen a steady and significant raise in raw material costs, but overall job bids coming in well below pre-planning budget projections.

So, is it raw material, or some other element that's unified over recent years, to represent the inflation (and sudden decline) we've seen in construction?

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Filene's

Hynes will lose this project in the long-run to his lenders. They will end up defaulting on this loan. Does anybody know what he paid for this site? Filenes is not generating any revenue and is just one giant expense per month in taxes, loans, interest.

This site will be the downfall to this guy career. Menino who just sits back and says please Mr Hynes can you put a up fence because the economy is so bad. Menino, with this site and columbus defines your career. Like I said before if it wasn't for the colleges in this area BOSTON would be the equilvant to DETRIOT. Just remember that.

 

[Patriots_1228]

Re: Filene's

Consumers are lazy they are more like SHEEP following the herd. The money should never have been available to begin with. Middle class wages have everything to do with this. Who do you think would have bought those Filene's condos for 500K per unit? The problem was that everything was getting so inflated with low interest rates but average worker's income was becoming so leveraged paying for overpriced real estate that he never thought they he might actually lose his job after that. This problem is so deep that I can't even get into this. /QUOTE]

Mr. gunman you are one of my FAVORITE posters bcuz you not ballwasher man!!! But not so much sheepish people. But GREEDY ones stirup most everymans' inner restlesnes with "BUY this pretty watch or girl no love you unless BIG shiney new car or BUY this shit from Billy Hays." All day. Long time. All nite. Brainswashed by it, but it all DIRTY. Man in street has no chance here and becomes man LIVING in street!!! THINGS are God now, not the gods. Streetman praying face first down on assfalt because he on his ass.

anyway. This Filene hole is our hell.

-Its billy MAYs. How dare you insult an american hero like that.

 

[Arch101]

Re: Filene's

Is it raw material costs, or labor costs? I've seen a steady and significant raise in raw material costs, but overall job bids coming in well below pre-planning budget projections.

So, is it raw material, or some other element that's unified over recent years, to represent the inflation (and sudden decline) we've seen in construction?

Actually, a lot of materials costs are way down in addition to depressed labor costs. When One Franklin was priced in early 2008, a big part of the colossal cost was the high price of steel at that time (when China and India were gobbling it all up). Recently, steel providers have practically been giving it away. I keep wondering what that GMP would be like if priced at TODAY'S values. I'll bet tens of millions have come off of that building. It's a crying shame they can't get it going while prices are this cheap.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Filene's

Bottom line this was poorly PLANNED........

Special thanks for the hole in the heart of the city to

HYNES
BRA
Menino


Why do the Taxpayers of Boston fund the corrupt BRA which cost us Millions of Taxpayer dollars. These clowns couldn't help plan to build a LEGO model.

"they would claim it is too tall and cast shadows"

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Re: Filene's

"they would claim it is too tall and cast shadows"

No that would be the taxpayers saying that.

 

[bbfen]

Re: Filene's

Actually, a lot of materials costs are way down in addition to depressed labor costs. When One Franklin was priced in early 2008, a big part of the colossal cost was the high price of steel at that time (when China and India were gobbling it all up). Recently, steel providers have practically been giving it away. I keep wondering what that GMP would be like if priced at TODAY'S values. I'll bet tens of millions have come off of that building. It's a crying shame they can't get it going while prices are this cheap.

Ah, I didn't realize that steel had taken such a dramatic plunge. Makes sense for some of the pricing I see coming through my office, because it was one of the most expensive commodities 14 months ago.


I agree about the timing challenge. Right now is----if you're well positioned----a perfect time to be bidding/building.

 

[BostonSkyGuy]

Re: Filene's

^The Recession (not just in the US, but globally) combined with China no longer needing so many building materials now that the Olympics are over has really dropped the prices of things like steel and concrete.

China will still see a growth in the use of these commodities but it won't spike the prices of steel, etc. so greatly like it did while building out for the Beijing Olympics.

Basically yes, this is the best time to build if you can for a number of reasons. Not just the price of building materials/commodities. Most cities would welcome new developments that would create construction jobs, etc.

This could be a thread in itself, so back to the topic: it's frustrating to see that even with the drop in commodities (which obviously won't last forever) there's still no plans for construction to begin on this site anytime soon.

 

[BarbaricManchurian]

Re: Filene's

^^I doubt that the Olympics themselves used so much steel to dramatically increase the cost; the real reason was a global increase in construction including huge booms in the Middle East, Panama, Russia, and China. Now that most of these have ended, the price has went down. Of course, most of these booms will restart, so there will soon probably be another spike in commodity prices.

 

[BostonSkyGuy]

Re: Filene's

^^I doubt that the Olympics themselves used so much steel to dramatically increase the cost

It wasn't so much the amount of steel China needed for Olympic structures (and it was a lot) but it was how much of their production was needed for themselves.

China produces by far the most steel of any country in the world. In 2007 they produced almost 37% (36.6) of the World's Steel. With less of that being shipped to other countries due to their own needs, the prices of steel from countries in Europe, Russia and Japan obviously rose. Not to mention the United State's own supply rose in cost because well...the demand far outweighed the supply.

If you look at it from a production standpoint there's less steel being produced right now. Countries aren't producing as much due to the recession. There's more available on the market though because China has more to sell, and people simply aren't building like they did before the global recession. It's not a lot more, but it's easier to get than a year ago.

You're still right though, even now that the Olympics are over in China, steel won't drop to being "Cheap" by any means due to the regions you listed becoming developing areas.

 

[Lurker]

Re: Filene's

It doesn't help domestic steel prices that Bethlehem Steel went under a few years ago. Losing a major producer domestically drives down both potential supply the inclination towards lowering due to competition.

 

[Carty]

Re: Filene's

Hi all. I just found this forum, what a valuable resource. I look forward to being able to contribute constructively.

My lovely wife and I moved to 170 Tremont "Parkside" two years ago after raising our boys in Andover.

It seems like there are two discussions here:

1. How bad is the hole in the ground, and
2. What is the best building to put there.

I am here to tell you that the hole in the ground is bad. It is impossible to under-recognize the impact it has on the immediate area (why does anyone go to downtown crossing anymore except to 'cross' to somewhere else?) as well as the downtown area in general.

While I can see how purists are wary of a 'fill the hole at any cost' approach I fully support Ron Newman's and Mayor Menino's position: Take the leap of faith that we are going to resume work sooner rather than later then build the best building possible.

The hole cleanly inhibits the reemergence of a healthy and vibrant downtown crossing, the thought of tolerating that for years to get the 'right' building lacks appropriate perspective.

 

[statler]

Re: Filene's

Welcome Carty!

Hi all. I just found this forum, what a valuable resource. I look forward to being able to contribute constructively.

Well, you are already ahead of Bostonbred.