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Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Suffolk 83 said:
you completely ignored football in your argument.. and if soccer wants to compete to the other 3 major american sports, it damn well better compare itself to them, if they like money anyways.
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Soccer is a different game than the American sports. The American Sports (aside from hockey) were all invented and perfected here. They don't need to mimic any sport or any league in terms of a product standpoint. You can't change the game. See below for more

Bottom line, soccer is generating some steam, but is it going to go full steam and replace hockey as the forth sport? Its possible, but no one wants to watch lackluster soccer in America when they know European and International futbol is played at a much higher level. Americans want to watch the best. Not many Americans repespect the flop and fake that exists in soccer. How do you remedy that situation?
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WHO CARES if the MLS replaces hockey? Seriously if you favorite sport in the world is basketball, and the Celtics are your favorite team do you care if the NBA is third behind NFL and MLB? No, you continue to watch basketball because YOU ENJOY it. People who only watch something because it's the best or has the most fans are morons. Watch what you deem to be entertaining and enjoyable.

I love soccer, I watch many Serie A (Italian League) games and some Premiership games during the season. I watch about 30 minutes of the MLS because no matter what people tell you, it's an inferior product. That's a fact. It's still decent soccer and people still watch it. If you want to see a live soccer match in the US, it's the only game in town.

Stop with the flopping and faking, I'm going to bet you've watched 0 minutes of a match of any soccer league. So stop pretending you know what you're talking about and puppeting the opinions of others. If there were no flopping and "Faking" as you put it, you STILL would not watch soccer, so don't give me that. By the way, have you ever watched the NBA? There's equally as much flopping in an NBA game as there is in a soccer game. It's part of the game. We don't have to like it, but it's there.

As a sincere sports fan, I got up for the world cup and the like because of the hype, but I watched the product, and its really lacking. Intensity is lacking, flops are galore, and there's no hero's. Soccer is maintaining a little steam right now because of the hype. THE HYPE. Other than playing it, its truely a terrible sport to watch
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You're an idiot. This chunk of text proves it. You didn't watch the World Cup. If you did, you'd see it was probably one of the best sporting events of the last 10 years. Since you dislike soccer, you didn't understand the game and you didn't understand that there WERE heroes and there were villians and there were some absolutely great games. Italy/Germany going into extra time where Italy scored 2 goals to win was a GREAT game. The Final was great as well, it had everything and even went to Penalty Kicks. There were a slew of other games, but you obviously didn't watch them because you're talking out of your ass and anyone on this forum that knows 1/10 about soccer can see that. You saying the World Cup lacked intensity and heroes is like saying the Celtics Playoffs were boring and that they lacked intensity and good storylines.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

jass said:
The bit about americans wanting to watch the best, and thus turning to europe is a bunch of bull. Americans watch what theyre told is the best, not what it. More americans follow EPL soccer over south american, and yet the quality is on the same level when you talk about the top teams. They watch EPL because the money tells them it's the best.
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I couldn't disagree more. The Primera Division in Argentina is a solid league, but it's not on par with the EPL, Serie A or La Liga. You can argue that the players themselves from South America are better, and I wouldn't argue that at all.

I think the EPL is a little over-rated, I prefer Serie A myself. I think the real reason a lot of Americans watch the EPL is because they can watch it and read about it in English. I know that the Italian League and even La Liga have games done in English but the media coverage here (especially in English) is far lacking to that of the EPL. I think that's the biggest reason. You can watch Sky Sports and get all the news about the EPL you could want.


Let's not turn this into a sport vs. sport thread because everyone has their own opinions on what is enjoyable. I happen to like pretty much every "major" sport other than hockey (I watch, but I don't follow it too closely) and Nascar if you want to inclue that. They're all different games, that's why there's different fan bases. You don't have to like every sport. There's a ton of options.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

One of the reasons roofs are included as a design element in soccer stadia around the world, especially in Europe, is that their seasons run from the end of August through May, covering a good chunk of the year where bad weather can adversely impact matches and attending supporters.

That being said, a roof covering supporters (if not the playing surface) also enhances the atmosphere at soccer matches, which when compared to most American sports, is decidedly different. There is chanting, singing, jumping up and down, large banners and flags waving... its much more proactive, interactive, and colorful. Take a look at the following videos to get some idea of this:

[youtube]ocOGKxy7onU[/youtube]

or

[youtube]11MQnQ8QjJs[/youtube]

If you put the 16,000 plus New England Revolution supporters in an open stadium with a capacity of close to 70,000, it's tremendously difficult to generate the sort of atmosphere that is a big selling point of matches around the world. No matter how much drumming, chanting, or cheering there may be, it pretty well gets lost in the vastness of the stadium. On the other hand, if you put 16,000 fans in a smaller stadium, say with a capacity of 20,000 with a roof that covers supporters, then the atmosphere in the stadium can be enhanced in an environment where fans are right on top of the action and the overall experience more intimate.

Quite frankly, the Revolution have been given a hand-me-down to wear in the form of Gillette Stadium that, while no doubt a quality product, is a very poor fit for purposes of the soccer club.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

As for flopping, isn't it actually the Italian league (or maybe it's just the Italian national team) that's notorious for this? I read somewhere that they play such a highly defensive game that free kicks begin to play such a huge role that players will flop all over the place.

That being said, if we're saying we don't want flopping while we're also saying MLS will never be as good as the Seriea A (sp?), there's a disconnect there.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

underground said:
As for flopping, isn't it actually the Italian league (or maybe it's just the Italian national team) that's notorious for this? I read somewhere that they play such a highly defensive game that free kicks begin to play such a huge role that players will flop all over the place.

That being said, if we're saying we don't want flopping while we're also saying MLS will never be as good as the Seriea A (sp?), there's a disconnect there.
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Actually it's the Brazilian and Portuguese National teams that are the most famous for flopping. Go to youtube and search for Portuguese flopping or something like that, it's comical. The Italians do their fair share of flopping as well, as does every country that plays football. It's part of the game.

I don't understand your logic behind flopping and there being a disconnect in me thinking the Serie A is vastly superior to the MLS. Is there no flopping in the MLS? Because there might be more in Serie A does that mean the product becomes closer to what the MLS throws out? I'm not following your logic.

I'd love for no one in soccer ever to flop to try to gain a free kick or penalty, but that's never going to happen. I'd love for the NBA players to not flop to try to gain a charge or defensive foul call but it's not going to happen. These things have become part of the games, like them or not.

And yes, the Serie A is such a tactical and defensive league that every free kick is important. I don't know if a free kick in Serie A is more important than the EPL or La Liga or Bundesliga, I think every set-piece is important. I think in Serie A you have to make the best of your chances, because most of all the teams are solid defensively. Italian soccer in general (national team speaking) has always been defensive minded, counter-attacking football. Seems to work well for them.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

The disconnect I was getting at was in the argument, "I hate MLS because of the flopping and I wish it were more like the Italian League." That argument is similar to saying, " I hate flopping but wish there was more of it."
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

flopoi8.jpg
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

underground said:
The disconnect I was getting at was in the argument, "I hate MLS because of the flopping and I wish it were more like the Italian League." That argument is similar to saying, " I hate flopping but wish there was more of it."
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Please quote where I ever said I hated the MLS because of flopping and wished it were more like the Italian League in that regard. I never said that.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

I didn't direct that at anyone in particular. It was just a general observation.
 
Re: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL (Formerly: Somerville Soccer Stad

Yeah, so I moved this thread over to General because you hooligans have derailed it pretty good. Until they start digging in the dirt for this thing I'm just gonna keep this thread here.
 
Re: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL (Formerly: Somerville Soccer Stad

vanshnookenraggen said:
Until they start digging in the dirt for this thing I'm just gonna keep this thread here.
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Aww man...that means this thread will probably be stuck here until 2011 at least.
 
Re: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL (Formerly: Somerville Soccer Stad

Boston Globe - October 16, 2008
A pitch for soccer in Somerville
N.E. Revolution seeks field in urban setting

By Eric Moskowitz, Globe Staff | October 16, 2008

The Kraft Group is strongly considering whether to build a soccer stadium in East Somerville as a home for the New England Revolution, a move that would allow the team to raise its profile in the region and capitalize on a rich concentration of immigrant soccer fans.

Following the lead of other Major League Soccer clubs, the Kraft family wants to build a 20,000- to 30,000-seat soccer stadium - possibly in an industrial no man's land that Somerville leaders want to turn into a vibrant commercial and residential district - and move the Revolution from Gillette Stadium, also owned by the Kraft Group, said Stacey James, a Kraft spokesman.

In Foxborough, where the Revolution have played since the league's first season in 1996, the typical home crowds of 10,000 to 20,000 fans can feel swallowed up by the nearly 69,000-seat football stadium. Moving to soccer-specific stadiums has helped other MLS teams boost attendance and carve out their own identities.

And putting the stadium, which could double as a concert venue, near a proposed Green Line stop would allow the team to more easily tap into the fervent soccer fan base in the region's ethnically diverse urban neighborhoods.

"They make no bones about the fact that they want to be in the urban core, which is a smart move on their part, and we're excited about it," Joseph A. Curtatone, Somerville's mayor, said.

The Krafts contacted the city about a year ago, Curtatone said, but increased their interest in June by investing $150,000 in a planning study to work with Somerville and explore development opportunities for the Inner Belt and Brickbottom, a pair of adjacent districts between Interstate 93 and McGrath Highway.

Meanwhile, the state Executive Office of Transportation, which is legally committed to extending the Green Line beyond Lechmere to Somerville and Medford by 2014, announced in May that it would probably need to split the Inner Belt and Brickbottom with a narrow, 11 1/2-acre railyard to store and service 80 Green Line cars.

That proposal drew immediate opposition from Somerville officials, business leaders, and activists, who fear the plan would thwart redevelopment. Although the site is currently home to a sparse mix of mostly industrial and warehouse buildings, its proximity to Boston, future Green Line access, and location amid the "power triangle of MIT, Tufts, and Harvard" make it a prime candidate to attract a mix of technology and science businesses, shopping, housing, and amenities, Curtatone said.

A soccer stadium would be "a major focal point, an anchor that brings a lot of value and a lot of activity to that district," he said.

The mayor said his immediate goal is to persuade the state to relocate or shrink the Green Line yard and encourage transit planners to consolidate it with a more-than-30-acre MBTA commuter railyard in Somerville's southeasternmost corner. That relocation would allow easier redevelopment of the Inner Belt and Brickbottom.

But if the Green Line yard can't be moved to the commuter railyard, placing it in the midst of the Inner Belt area in a redrawn fashion could allow for development of a stadium on "air rights" above it, and facilitate additional development around it, Curtatone said.

That "conceptual possibility" of a stadium above a railyard has emerged from the ongoing study funded by the Krafts and led by planners Greenberg/CBT Architects, with input from pro bono consultants who have helped Somerville with sustainable, transit-oriented planning, such as former state development secretary Douglas I. Foy, city officials said.

Somerville officials have shared initial findings with leaders from the transportation office and the Executive Office of Housing and Economic Development in an attempt to get state officials to consider not just short-term costs for constructing the railyard, but future development possibilities and long-term tax potential.

Asked about the stadium, Greg Bialecki, undersecretary of business development, said in a statement that Massachusetts is open to "all proposals that offer economic opportunities and create jobs in Somerville."

The Krafts are exploring multiple urban and suburban locations for a Revolution stadium, but the Somerville site is the only one that has undergone a planning study, James said.

Still, James said, the team has not committed to a particular community or site. "We're still in the process of considering all our options and selecting the option that is best for all involved," he said.

Auto magnate Herb Chambers, who has a Mercedes dealership and corporate offices in the area, invested the remaining $7,500 for the $157,500 study. He said he was attracted less by the possibility of a stadium than by the area's overall potential and what he called the proactive, business-friendly approach of Curtatone's administration.

"It's a great area, because it has such easy proximity to Boston," Chambers said. "When you think about it, where my office is, we are two miles from State Street, and we're a mile from the Museum of Science, the Charles River."

Not everyone has greeted stadium talk enthusiastically. William A. White Jr., an at-large alderman, said he and others on the board have reservations about the effect on traffic and doubts about whether a stadium would encourage additional development or generate the most tax revenue.

The aldermen also want to see the results of the Kraft-funded study so they can better respond to the idea, he said.

Stephen V. Mackey, chief executive of the Somerville Chamber of Commerce, is concerned that even secondary talk about combining a stadium with a modified Inner Belt railyard would distract from the primary goal of trying to move any railyard out of the district altogether, to maximize development potential.

"Once you take a rail maintenance facility, you're going to have it for 200 years," given that the commuter railyard, also known as the Boston Engine Terminal, dates to the 19th century, Mackey said. "The government's got to figure out where it's going to put the maintenance facility, and the soccer stadium is a separate issue."

Seven soccer-specific stadiums have opened for MLS teams in the past decade, according to the league; the latest opened last week in Utah, at a reported cost of $110 million.

The eighth, the 25,000-seat Red Bull Arena, is under construction in a transit-friendly New Jersey site as the new home for Red Bull New York, which plays in the 80,000-seat Giants Stadium.

Sean Donahue, a Franklin native who began rooting for the Revolution in grade school and once won a RadioShack contest as the nation's most "Xtreme Soccer Fan," said other clubs have seen attendance increase after moving out of multipurpose stadiums.

"When you're going into a game and there's 15,000 fans in a 66,000-seat stadium, the atmosphere is never going to be as good as it is in a soccer-specific stadium," said Donahue, a Bryant University student who now writes about the Revolution in print and on the Internet and hosts a weekly radio show.

Although a Somerville stadium would mean a longer commute for Donahue and other southeastern New England devotees, a T-friendly location would open a wider market, help the team, and enhance the fan experience, he said.

"It's just great to hear the Krafts are looking into it," he said.
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Re: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL (Formerly: Somerville Soccer Stad

http://www.wickedlocal.com/somervil...efore-building-a-soccer-stadium-at-Inner-Belt

City hopes to resolve Green Line facility issue before building a soccer stadium at Inner Belt

By Auditi Guha
Wed Oct 22, 2008, 05:57 PM EDT

Somerville -

With the area called ?Little Brazil? due to the immigrant population, is it any wonder the Kraft Group is considering Somerville?s Inner Belt for a 20,000-seat soccer stadium?

The Kraft family owns the New England Revolution as well as the New England Patriots, and has underwritten a study of the Inner Belt/Brickbottom region looking into the feasibility of this project, with additional funding from longtime Somerville auto dealership Herb Chambers.

?We?ve had some conversation with the city, and we are all waiting to see how feasible it is,? said Stacey James, a Kraft spokesman. He said they considered Somerville as a possible site after they began looking at alternatives to the Gillette Stadium where New England Revolution currently play their home games.

Meanwhile, both the city and the Kraft Group are awaiting the results of the study conducted this summer by Greenburg/CBT Architects. A public meeting will be organized when this comes in, said Monica Lamboy from the mayor?s Office of Strategic Planning and Community Development.

While there are no official proposals yet, the city began discussions with the Kraft Group a year ago. But the mayor is intrigued about the idea of having a soccer stadium here, she added.

With Inner Belt long slated as an area of potential future development, especially after plans to extend the Green Line there, of bigger concern is the state Executive Office of Transportation?s current interest in putting a Green Line maintenance facility smack against the Brickbottom Artist Studios.

?Right now the city is focusing on the maintenance facility, where it goes and whether we will have air rights over it,? Lamboy said. ?Once we get past it, we can discuss all kinds of creative ideas like the stadium.?

Mayor Joe Curtatone has recently floated the idea of having it built above the Green Line facility, hence the interest in securing air rights.

Residents and the city have been opposed to the proposal of building it in Yard 8 on Inner Belt Road and are pressing the state to look at other sites nearby. ?We are hopeful we will get some alternatives from the state,? Lamboy said. ?It seems like they are taking our input seriously.?

Brickbottom residents, who have been collectively opposed to the idea of having the substation in their backyard, say neither the city nor the Kraft group has contacted them regarding the stadium issue. Their main concerns are about how it could affect the area, especially in terms of noise, light, traffic and parking.

Artist and resident Heather van Aelst doesn?t have a strong opinion about the general idea of a soccer stadium yet, but would like to know more about it. ?I am very concerned about the combined Green Line maintenance facility/stadium idea,? she said. ?I?m afraid that the stadium portion could run into problems, never be built, and Somerville would be stuck with a second rail maintenance facility. Why risk that at this point? Let?s first focus on finding a solution for the Green Line maintenance facility that has as small an impact and footprint on Somerville as possible.?

Stephen Mackey, president/CEO of the Somerville Chamber of Commerce, said he welcomes a proposal from Kraft like he does with any other developer, but he believes the stadium should remain a separate issue because the complexity of doing it together could delay the Green Line from coming to Inner Belt. He is also worried that the city could get locked into the maintenance facility before getting a commitment to air rights development. ?The maintenance facility is something the city has to live with virtually forever and it will have tremendous impact on the development potential of the city,? he said.

Like the Brickbottom residents, the Chamber of Commerce strongly recommends the EOT put the new facility in the neighboring 43 acres of Boston Engine Terminal owned by the MBTA in Yard 7.

Ward 6 Alderman Rebekah Gewirtz, who also chairs the Committee on Housing and Community Development and said they have been debating the issue for weeks, agrees with Mackey.

Regarding the stadium, she feels there needs to be more public discussion. ?I feel strongly there needs to be more community involvement. We need to figure out what the community concerns and the economic benefits are,? she said.

The EOT has rescheduled a meeting of the Green Line Extension Citizens Advisory Group for Nov. 12 from 4-6 p.m. at St. Clements High School (New Parrish Hall), 579 Boston Ave., Medford, where they plan to discuss the long-promised report on maintenance facility sites and their final recommendations.
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Re: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL (Formerly: Somerville Soccer Stad

It's funny, I had the exact opposite reaction to the timing issue. I think including Kraft and the stadium could actually help speed up the Greenline construction. Look at how quickly Kraft has been moving on Patriots place. Meanwhile, look at how slowly the MBTA has been moving on... well every single project they have. Looking into my crystal ball, I see the MBTA trying its hardest to turn the Extension into another Kenmore Sq. Bus Station fiasco, while the Kraft Group trys to keep them on time and on budget.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

jass said:
Do they deserve their own field? What does that even mean? Should the Marlins lose their stadium because they suck? Why does Harvard even have a stadium, they're not a sports school.
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Hey, Harvard is a Division 1 (AA) Football, Hockey, Lacrosse, Fieldhockey i believe

and consistently at the top of the ICSA (sailing).

they have actually been the hub of sporting for a long time-first ever collegiate game was played there, in multiple sports.

so piss off, of course they deserve a stadium.
 
Re: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL (Formerly: Somerville Soccer Stad

The Harvard Stadium is also historic. The official measurements of a football field are based off of it's dimensions. Back in the day, Yale wanted to make the field bigger so that everyone would spread out more and not hurt eachother as much. But Harvard had just finished building their stadium and didn't want to build another.
 
Re: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL (Formerly: Somerville Soccer Stad

Exactly. Precisely, even.

Snagglepuss from SNL.
 
Study: Stadium ?Critical? to Somerville Redevelopment

Study: Stadium ?Critical? to Somerville Redevelopment

Snippet:
A study into the future development of the Inner Belt and Brickbottom districts of Somerville has concluded that a potential 20,000-seat soccer stadium for the New England Revolution would be a ?critical? component of any redevelopment plan for the area.

Study authors Greenberg Consultants of Toronto and CBT Architects of Boston argue that a stadium or other ?specialized program? is key to establishing a competitive edge for the area. Commissioned by the City of Somerville and funded in part by the Kraft Sports Group, the study calls for a $500 million development that includes a stadium which would be built on the air rights above a proposed Green Line Maintenance facility. The proposal also includes plans for 500,000 square feet of office space, additional hotel and retail space, and the construction of new public parks.

Currently available on the City of Somerville?s web site, the study also suggests the development would create 2,000 new jobs in one of the poorest sections of the city. The stadium would be built during the first phase of the project.

But most intriguing for Revolution fans are three proposed stadium sites within the Inner Belt district, including one site that the study refers to as being ?preferred?.

http://revsnet1.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/study-stadium-critical-to-somerville-redevelopment/
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preferred-stadium1.jpg


You can download the study here:
http://www.somervillema.gov/cos_con...ickbottomReport-FINAL-WebVersion11-25-084.pdf

.
 
Re: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL (Formerly: Somerville Soccer Stad

Haven't looked at the document yet, but that map shows several more T stations than are currently planned.
 
Re: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL (Formerly: Somerville Soccer Stad

I looked through that document, it's very interesting, but seems very expensive. If built, it would provide an excellent reason to live in Somerville, plus the benefit of quick and easy transportation, and would look pretty. And maybe the Cannons wouldn't have to play in random college stadiums each year.
 
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