New England Revolution Stadium | 173 Alford Street | Boston-Everett

[stellarfun]

173 Alford St (the Exelon Mystic Station) is what the article mentions. Course being the Globe they gloss over the fact that isn't even Everett. I think the Krafts are talking about the tanks site just north of the power plant.

173 Alford is not a property in the Everett city assessors' database. No property on Alford St. is. Most of the power plant facilities have a Rover St. address. the largest of the Rover St. lots is 18 Rover at nearly 130,000 sq ft. The Globe says the size of the property covered by this legislative provision is 43 acres.

Some of this property is likely to be heavily contaminated. Remediation costs could be very expensive, if not prohibitive.

Construction is required to start within three years. For some of this property, remediation could take longer than that.

 

[ant8904]

You can cultivate a young, intensely loyal following by building an urban stadium near transit. This is the opposite.

The opposite is Gillette Stadium. At least it's possible an Everett stadium lack of urbanity and transit can be solved by building the infrastructure and knit connections to Charlestown and commercial-residential Everett. No amount of effort or money can make Gillette become part of any urban core.

I'm going to say this and then duck: the state needs to either run legit rail into this area, or build a spur off of 93 - both monumental, near impossible tasks.

Engineering-wise, is it that monumental and near-impossible? Nobody wants to spend the money, but isn't the main physical issue is needing to build a bridge? If so, that's time and work, but not like Big Dig or other engineering marvel to pull off here. Politically and financially monumental and near-impossible - barring Kraft willing to pay or a governor making it their personal pet project - it is currently monumental and near-impossible

---

You know the funny thing? There was a time Everett was on the Orange line. I wonder how it work. Unlike the EL, there's so few photos or other records online. I cannot imagine how that station looked like form Alford St. nor understand how it crossed the river. Did it used the commuter rail tracks and bridge? It only reached the industrial area, so it wasn't the biggest loss for Everett, but that's exactly where it would be useful for this and beyond if it still existed.

 

[mass88]

Establishing a team that is consistently competitive will play a larger role in building out a fanbase than getting an urban stadium near transit. Will getting the stadium be nice, and help? Sure. But it's not some magic bullet. We're more than half way through the 2022 season and the Revs average 18,600 fans a game, which pits them in the top half of the league. They out draw DC, and they have an urban soccer specific stadium near transit. They out draw Houston, and they have an urban soccer specific stadium near transit.

 

[mass88]

173 Alford is not a property in the Everett city assessors' database. No property on Alford St. is. Most of the power plant facilities have a Rover St. address. the largest of the Rover St. lots is 18 Rover at nearly 130,000 sq ft. The Globe says the size of the property covered by this legislative provision is 43 acres.

Some of this property is likely to be heavily contaminated. Remediation costs could be very expensive, if not prohibitive.

Construction is required to start within three years. For some of this property, remediation could take longer than that.

Is that to say that we may never see any sort of development in this area?

 

[jklo]

173 Alford is not a property in the Everett city assessors' database. No property on Alford St. is.

As it should be because Alford St is not in Everett.

 

[stellarfun]

Is that to say that we may never see any sort of development in this area?

No. Contaminated sites can be re-purposed. But it depends on the type and extent of the contamination, the cost of remediating it. and the land value. I know of a site where the subsurface contamination is such that one can't de-water the site. So no constructing a building with a basement or below-grade foundation. But no problems capping it for use as a parking lot. I know of a site in upstate NY where mercury was recycled. The contamination is such that the site cannot be used for anything in the future.

Harvard spent over a year remediating a former truck terminal on Western Ave., across from the Business School. (Beeline documented this work and can correct my timeline.) And now Tishman Speyer will develop on that land.

 

[BronsonShore]

As it should be because Alford St is not in Everett.

Yes, Alford St is not in Everett. But in light of the fact that the stadium won't be built on top of the street itself, but instead on the land next to the street - which very much is in Everett - I'm not sure why that's relevant.

 

[Vagabond]

How big of a stadium do you think is appropriate? I could probably be convinced a 35-40,000 person stadium might actually have demand in the middle of Everett, especially if they're able to capitalize on a direct transit connections (silver, 111, etc) to large immigrant populations (instead of the suburban crowd they target now)

EDIT: For reference, the original Kraft proposal for the South Boston site was 20-25k seats, and fully self-funded.

	Team	Av.	Total	Gms	2021	YOY
1	Atlanta United FC	47,160	518,761	11	43,965	0.07
2	Charlotte FC	36,246	326,216	9	N/A	N/A
3	Seattle Sounders	34,000	339,999	10	25,125	0.35
4	Nashville SC	28,646	257,811	9	19,172	0.49
5	Toronto FC	23,676	260,435	11	8,733	1.71
6	Portland Timbers	23,440	234,402	10	21,285	0.10
7	LA Galaxy	22,912	229,121	10	13,400	0.71
8	LAFC	21,731	239,045	11	20,204	0.08
9	FC Cincinnati	21,630	216,299	10	21,175	0.02
10	Austin FC	20,738	186,643	9	20,738	0.00
11	Real Salt Lake	20,278	202,777	10	15,253	0.33
12	Minnesota United	19,407	194,071	10	14,326	0.35
13	Columbus Crew	19,351	174,163	9	16,344	0.18
14	NE Revolution	18,602	204,617	11	18,861	-0.01
15	Sporting KC	18,519	148,152	8	18,757	-0.01
16	Philadelphia Union	17,804	195,849	11	12,903	0.38
17	NYC FC	17,658	176,577	10	5,429	2.25
18	Orlando City SC	17,353	138,827	8	15,418	0.13
19	FC Dallas	16,320	179,519	11	13,063	0.25
20	New York Red Bulls	16,289	162,886	10	13,161	0.24
21	Vancouver Whitecaps	16,241	162,410	10	10,741	0.51
22	D.C. United	16,051	160,506	10	12,715	0.26
23	Houston Dynamo	15,881	174,691	11	11,732	0.35
24	Chicago Fire	15,356	168,921	11	10,443	0.47
25	Colorado Rapids	14,501	159,510	11	11,551	0.26
26	CF Montreal	14,492	144,918	10	5,000	1.90
27	San Jose Earthquakes	13,172	131,724	10	13,171	0.00
28	Inter Miami CF	12,305	135,359	11	13,847	-0.11
	TOTALS	20,653	5,824,209	282	16,910	0.22
							​

 

[JeffDowntown]

How big of a stadium do you think is appropriate? I could probably be convinced a 35-40,000 person stadium might actually have demand in the middle of Everett, especially if they're able to capitalize on a direct transit connections (silver, 111, etc) to large immigrant populations (instead of the suburban crowd they target now)

	Team	Av.	Total	Gms	2021	YOY
1	Atlanta United FC	47,160	518,761	11	43,965	0.07
2	Charlotte FC	36,246	326,216	9	N/A	N/A
3	Seattle Sounders	34,000	339,999	10	25,125	0.35
4	Nashville SC	28,646	257,811	9	19,172	0.49
5	Toronto FC	23,676	260,435	11	8,733	1.71
6	Portland Timbers	23,440	234,402	10	21,285	0.10
7	LA Galaxy	22,912	229,121	10	13,400	0.71
8	LAFC	21,731	239,045	11	20,204	0.08
9	FC Cincinnati	21,630	216,299	10	21,175	0.02
10	Austin FC	20,738	186,643	9	20,738	0.00
11	Real Salt Lake	20,278	202,777	10	15,253	0.33
12	Minnesota United	19,407	194,071	10	14,326	0.35
13	Columbus Crew	19,351	174,163	9	16,344	0.18
14	NE Revolution	18,602	204,617	11	18,861	-0.01
15	Sporting KC	18,519	148,152	8	18,757	-0.01
16	Philadelphia Union	17,804	195,849	11	12,903	0.38
17	NYC FC	17,658	176,577	10	5,429	2.25
18	Orlando City SC	17,353	138,827	8	15,418	0.13
19	FC Dallas	16,320	179,519	11	13,063	0.25
20	New York Red Bulls	16,289	162,886	10	13,161	0.24
21	Vancouver Whitecaps	16,241	162,410	10	10,741	0.51
22	D.C. United	16,051	160,506	10	12,715	0.26
23	Houston Dynamo	15,881	174,691	11	11,732	0.35
24	Chicago Fire	15,356	168,921	11	10,443	0.47
25	Colorado Rapids	14,501	159,510	11	11,551	0.26
26	CF Montreal	14,492	144,918	10	5,000	1.90
27	San Jose Earthquakes	13,172	131,724	10	13,171	0.00
28	Inter Miami CF	12,305	135,359	11	13,847	-0.11
	TOTALS	20,653	5,824,209	282	16,910	0.22
							​

Serious question -- do the immigrant populations actually follow the Revs? Or are they so attached to the teams from their home countries that attendance at a Revs game is not at all likely.

 

[DZH22]

The highest average attendance the Revolution ever had was 22k/game in 2016. Many years they have been under 20k/game. I do think we can assume there'd be a likely bump from being proximate to the city.

How much support can we really expect though for what amounts to a minor league team in its respective sport? 30k stadium probably makes the most sense, but even that will probably have thousands of empty seats most of the time.

 

[kingofsheeba]

Serious question -- do the immigrant populations actually follow the Revs? Or are they so attached to the teams from their home countries that attendance at a Revs game is not at all likely.

So, from my observation, it’s mostly the 20-30 y/o that are into the Revs. A lot of yt ppl are more into the MLS than you’d think. Specifically the ones with disposable income. Does the first generation immigrant population play a factor into the attendance equation? No doubt. But I don’t have a median figure to give you. Nor would it be prudent for me to pull an arbitrary number out of the sky.

Mind you that Premier League Soccer is growing here in the States. Does footie hold its own against MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL? No. But to say that the Revs will be playing to less than 4,000-5,000 in a 20k Stadium in Everett is short-sighted.

 

[ant8904]

You know the funny thing? There was a time Everett was on the Orange line. I wonder how it work. Unlike the EL, there's so few photos or other records online. I cannot imagine how that station looked like form Alford St. nor understand how it crossed the river. Did it used the commuter rail tracks and bridge? It only reached the industrial area, so it wasn't the biggest loss for Everett, but that's exactly where it would be useful for this and beyond if it still existed.

To semi-answer this to myself (I don't know where else to post this - previous discussion about the Orange Line Everett Station are scattered with the most notable was in the Encore Thread). But also to bring out the discussion on "why is this decades for planning and implementing" (unless you mean decades of talking about it then a decade of actual planning and construction). Based on this map, photos like this (one span of Alford St bridge, it's collapse in 1965 aside, the rail bridge is next to it), and this 1975 video that feels like 1920 to me, I think the old Orange line alignment splits from Sullivan station and go alongside Alford St.

Looking at Google Maps, I think the white stuff by the current Alford St Bridge (It's actually name is Malden Bridge?) is the old Orange line bridge. Looking at it now, the ROW is still kinda unobstructed with the setbacks of Encore, Parking lots, and the MBTA bus garage.

 

[greenlinetobrooklyn]

To semi-answer this to myself (I don't know where else to post this - previous discussion about the Orange Line Everett Station are scattered with the most notable was in the Encore Thread). But also to bring out the discussion on "why is this decades for planning and implementing" (unless you mean decades of talking about it then a decade of actual planning and construction). Based on this map, photos like this (one span of Alford St bridge, it's collapse in 1965 aside, the rail bridge is next to it), and this 1975 video that feels like 1920 to me, I think the old Orange line alignment splits from Sullivan station and go alongside Alford St.

Looking at Google Maps, I think the white stuff by the current Alford St Bridge (It's actually name is Malden Bridge?) is the old Orange line bridge. Looking at it now, the ROW is still kinda unobstructed with the setbacks of Encore, Parking lots, and the MBTA bus garage.

tl;dr from the crazy transit pitch thread in design a better boston, branching the orange line before malden center is a non-starter. There are pitches in the green line reconfiguration thread that loosely follow that alignment from brickbottom, but all of this is decades away fantasy land talk, at the moment.

So, from my observation, it’s mostly the 20-30 y/o that are into the Revs. A lot of yt ppl are more into the MLS than you’d think. Specifically the ones with disposable income. Does the first generation immigrant population play a factor into the attendance equation? No doubt. But I don’t have a median figure to give you. Nor would it be prudent for me to pull an arbitrary number out of the sky.

Mind you that Premier League Soccer is growing here in the States. Does footie hold its own against MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL? No. But to say that the Revs will be playing to less than 4,000-5,000 in a 20k Stadium in Everett is short-sighted.

I'm kind of one of these. I try and watch revs games, catch a couple a year and want to support them more. the idea of driving out to foxboro to sit in a mostly empty stadium really turns me off, though. If they played in the city, i'd absolutely catch at least one game a year, and once my kids have an attention span longer than a goldfish's, a lot more than that.

 

[fattony]

It's only 1 mile from Sullivan to the proposed site. Many would happily walk 20 minutes. Many will be going to a bar in Sullivan or Everett to pre-/post-game anyway, which breaks up the walk from transit. I'm not even sure you need bus lanes to cover the 1 mile distance. A platoon of shuttle buses circulating on game day can move a lot of people over such a short distance and Sullivan Station has a ton of area to hold crowds if traffic hits a temporary bottleneck.

None of that is as good as a transit station that opens right in front of the stadium, but you really don't need that level of perfection. Even with NO infrastructure additions this site isn't bad at all. Heck, it's 0.5 miles from Kenmore to the corner of Jersey and Van Ness and clearly mobs of fans don't blink an eye at making that walk.

 

[Vagabond]

Many will be going to a bar in Sullivan or Everett to pre-/post-game anyway

If they do the development timing right, this is exactly the plan. No reason to have giant parking lots here.

 

[Charlie_mta]

View attachment 26483

I was thinking of exactly that alignment for a BRT route, including a new BRT bridge over the Mystic where you show the orange line branch.

 

[Arlington]

TL;DR Alford Sliver Line service is the dominant and likely choice for transit.

All 6 alternatives in the ongoing Silver Line extension study run on Alford St…3 from the East via Chelsea and 3 from the south via Sullivan, with the high likelihood that they connect Chelsea to Sullivan via Alford

MBTA to Analyze 6 Alternatives For New Silver Line Service to Everett

The MBTA has narrowed its options down to 6 potential new routes for new Silver Line bus rapid transit service to Everett, and in hopes of supporting an alternative through Charlestown, City of Bos…

mass.streetsblog.org

 

[mass88]

Serious question -- do the immigrant populations actually follow the Revs? Or are they so attached to the teams from their home countries that attendance at a Revs game is not at all likely.

I am sure someone has done a study on it, but my first reaction is not really. Look at Miami. South Florida has a massive population of people who either were born or their parents were born in all of South America which is a soccer mad continent. They don't draw all that well. They also lost the Fusion the first time around. Look at how well the Marlins draw despite having a huge population of Dominicans, and Puerto Ricans.

I think a stadium with a capacity of 27,500-30,000 would be a great size. Consistently filling 75-80% of it would provide a good atmosphere.

Outside of the top clubs, most European soccer stadiums seat less than 40,000 people. Look at La Liga. More than half the clubs averaged less than 20k fans in the 2018/2019 season. I picked this season because it was the last full season before the pandemic hit. Even the top clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona will have thousands of empty seats for games against clubs at the bottom of the table. All of this is to say that the MLS does just fine with attendance and drawing an average of 18-20k per home match is a solid number for a soccer team.

 

[dhawkins]

The opposite is Gillette Stadium. At least it's possible an Everett stadium lack of urbanity and transit can be solved by building the infrastructure and knit connections to Charlestown and commercial-residential Everett. No amount of effort or money can make Gillette become part of any urban core.



Engineering-wise, is it that monumental and near-impossible? Nobody wants to spend the money, but isn't the main physical issue is needing to build a bridge? If so, that's time and work, but not like Big Dig or other engineering marvel to pull off here. Politically and financially monumental and near-impossible - barring Kraft willing to pay or a governor making it their personal pet project - it is currently monumental and near-impossible

---

You know the funny thing? There was a time Everett was on the Orange line. I wonder how it work. Unlike the EL, there's so few photos or other records online. I cannot imagine how that station looked like form Alford St. nor understand how it crossed the river. Did it used the commuter rail tracks and bridge? It only reached the industrial area, so it wasn't the biggest loss for Everett, but that's exactly where it would be useful for this and beyond if it still existed.

Here's a link to an Arial photo of the Everett Station. I think it was a train yard, not a station.

 

[Arlington]

Everett station was all of elevated station, storage tracks, & maintenance barn. The barn persists as the bus maintenance facility. The bus garage ain’t going away, and the orange line ain’t coming back.