New Red and Orange Line Cars

The orange line and the blue line cars are the same width/height, but different lengths, due to tighter curves in the blue line's designed-for-trolley tunnels. As I recall there was a plan to rehabilitate the better-shape 0600s from the blue line in orange line service (in 10 car trains I would guess) as a stopgap, but they were too decayed to be deemed worth it. Doing it the other way around, though, wouldn't work, even if you added pantograph mounts.
 
Arlington said:
I'm pretty sure the OL and BL are the same size. The bodies of the "painted" OL and BL are the same, right down to the pantograph brackets on top.

The reason the fleets diverged was that they were buying new BL cars to support 6-car trains, so they ended up doing a big-enough BL car order, and customizing them all for dual pantograph-or-3rdRail ops.

There are basically 2 sizes for USA "heavy" subway trains: "Street Railway / Elevated" (Blue, Orange, and NYC's IRT lines (numbers)) and "Electric Railroad" (Red, and NYC's IND/BMT (lettered) and most later systems)

The point of the joint OL/RL order is that the BL already got its new trains, and that from a maintenance standpoint, commonality is more important in maintenance items like door mechanisms and trucks/motors/brakes.
Click to expand...



But the orange Line rail cars are longer - having 3 doorways on each side, whereas the Blue Line rail cars have only 2 doorways on each side of the cars.

In fact, I think that the Blue Line cars are the shortest ones in the entire subway system.

As for your 4th theory, yes, you're right. Which is why that is the basis behind ordering both the new Orange & Red Line rail cars that will have the same things in common - so that things remain the same between them both. About the only thing different between the 2 configurations is the length of the cars and maybe a few other things, such as propulsion, layout design, wheelchair space / accommodations and of course, the color scheme. :cool:
 
I wanna say the blue line cars have a lower floor too, which would complicate things.
 
sm89 said:
I wanna say the blue line cars have a lower floor too, which would complicate things.
Click to expand...

The height from the top of the rail head to the platform is indeed a few inches lower on Blue Line. When they were kicking around the idea to transfer old Blue Line cars to the Orange Line, the thought was that the suspension system could be modified to raise the floor height. The Blue Line cars transfer idea was not undertaken because the total weight of an 8-car trains of old Blue Line cars would be greater than a 6-car train of Orange (four more sets of trucks) which would require bridge mods, the cars would require installation of ATO/ATC for the signal system, the cars would require a general rebuild for the carbodies, and the cost of doing all these things was the same or greater than just buying new cars.
 
winstonoboogie said:
The height from the top of the rail head to the platform is indeed a few inches lower on Blue Line. When they were kicking around the idea to transfer old Blue Line cars to the Orange Line, the thought was that the suspension system could be modified to raise the floor height. The Blue Line cars transfer idea was not undertaken because the total weight of an 8-car trains of old Blue Line cars would be greater than a 6-car train of Orange (four more sets of trucks) which would require bridge mods, the cars would require installation of ATO/ATC for the signal system, the cars would require a general rebuild for the carbodies, and the cost of doing all these things was the same or greater than just buying new cars.
Click to expand...



And I don't see the irony behind that anyway, when the aging cancer-causing Orange Line trains are already old, rotted rusted out & eaten-up and are well over 30 years old. They were supposed to have undergone a modernization program, where the cars were supposed to be rebuilt repainted to look better on the outside.

The old Blue Lune cars were pretty much the same age - maybe just a few years younger.

Why add more rotted-out cars from another line to the already rotted out ones on the Orange Line? That would be exasperating & pointless. It would not have made any sense. :eek:
 
The blue line cars were a couple of years older. Despite the fact that the entire orange line fleet is now over 30 years old, I feel like it's at least more reliable than the red line. On the average day it seems to run well. I can always depend on it.
 
I remember last year sometime when a Red Line Train was traveling between stations with a passenger door stuck open. That was one of the older 1500 or 1600 series rail cars. :eek:
 
Last edited:
Someone from the T told me that the production of the cars isn't the only reason it will take 4-5 years for delivery. He said there is a lot of associated signal, track, and maintenance facility upgrades as well.
 
Well, if it is needed, then they just gotta "Get the Job Done."

The existing older rail cars just can't go on longer than that!! They are already unreliable and are forever breaking down and have long since gone past their retirement dates! :eek:
 
Last edited:
sm89 said:
Someone from the T told me that the production of the cars isn't the only reason it will take 4-5 years for delivery. He said there is a lot of associated signal, track, and maintenance facility upgrades as well.
Click to expand...
There is surely no plan to let infrastructure work hold up the vehicle procurement. If these upgrades affect the car delivery dates, then something is not going to plan. It all has to happen in parallel.
 
Finch said:
There is surely no plan to let infrastructure work hold up the vehicle procurement. If these upgrades affect the car delivery dates, then something is not going to plan. It all has to happen in parallel.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's also news to me. There may well be other infrastructure upgrades that go along with the new cars, but the new cars are what's taking until 2019... not the switches... unless someone has a source for that info.
 
The 1.8 billion does include a substantial sum for such upgrades. Signal upgrades in particular tend to be slow, costly, and difficult - you have to keep the existing system working at full capacity while installing, testing, and debugging a complex system. Replacing signals on the Orange Line from Chinatown to Oak Grove took from 2004 to 2008.
 
We still have yet to even SEE what the final design of how the new rail cars will look. I swear, that they are moving so atrociously & painfully friggen SLOW on this!! :mad:
 
Jahvon09 said:
We still have yet to even SEE what the final design of how the new rail cars will look. I swear, that they are moving so atrociously & painfully friggen SLOW on this!! :mad:
Click to expand...
From what I can see, they're moving about the same pace as any other vehicle procurement. CNR MA only got Notice To Proceed a couple months ago. Final design won't exist for another year or more (probably more, I'm just not familiar with this specific schedule). It's possible some "substantial design" images will appear in the press somewhat earlier to placate people.
 
Finch said:
From what I can see, they're moving about the same pace as any other vehicle procurement. CNR MA only got Notice To Proceed a couple months ago. Final design won't exist for another year or more (probably more, I'm just not familiar with this specific schedule). It's possible some "substantial design" images will appear in the press somewhat earlier to placate people.
Click to expand...



That's just it!

Also, Mayor Marty Walsh made a comment this month after all those snowstorms, that there is a pendeing lawsuit concerning the status of the new rail cars.

I wonder what THAT is all about! :eek:
 
Jahvon09 said:
That's just it!

Also, Mayor Marty Walsh made a comment this month after all those snowstorms, that there is a pendeing lawsuit concerning the status of the new rail cars.

I wonder what THAT is all about! :eek:
Click to expand...

Why are you wondering about something that has been widely public?

The losing bidders are suing, claiming that the bid process was flawed. Certainly not the first or last time such a lawsuit will be filed.
 
This is my first time hearing about this part.

But they lost, they lost.

The MBTA is of course going to go with the lowest bidder. They always have and always will. The ones that couldn't fulfill the needs of the T, just couldn't do it.

They need to just get over themselves. Deal with it.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top