New Red and Orange Line Cars

Well, kind of the point, right? Just like the Red/Orange Line orders that are basically the exact same with different dimension shells - yeah, the Type-10s as-is would be ridiculously oversized for the Mattapan line, but, that doesn't mean they couldn't do an addon with smaller dimensions. Hell - a half length test fleet might be great as the first round to do burn in testing for the rest of the order.

Certainly possible from a technological standpoint, but the economics would probably be fairly lousy on a sub-fleet that small, plus the fact that the best-case scenario for the T9s is that they stick around as GL spares while they still have a good bit of life left means that chucking them is unlikely to be nearly as good, financially speaking, as using up the remainder of their economic service lives (Mattapan needs so few the rest will be able to serve as parts donors for a good long time) rather than paying to buy new and sinking the cost of the unused life left in the 9s. By all means, though, when the 9s are coming up on their end-of-life, maybe go for a T10 (or T11 if it's that long from now?) derivative as their successor, but it probably just doesn't make sense right now.

Never going to happen in the next few decades. At the community meetings if anyone so much as hinted at a full Red Line conversion the public was ready to string them up. The MBTA liason/head engineer also claimed there wasn't enough room in the ROW in Cedar Grove for a HRL conversion (lol).

I mean, no one says that you have to have stops converted exactly where they are now. It would be ludicrous to have a Mattapan conversion fall apart because of difficulties in station siting that could be solved by rationalizing the station placement.

That said, it's, as you said, irrelevant as long as the community around the line is on hair-trigger to politically destroy anyone who tries to touch that line. Honestly, they've got good reason to be ready to blow up about it if you ask me. The number of times the T has floated the undeniably-worse bus replacement option is scary enough, but there's also a long history of inferior replacement of existing service that cautions against letting things be touched at at all. The memory of the Elevated and the "equal or better replacement" lie looms large in the minds of anyone being promised improvements if they only agree to allow their existing service to be changed. Re-establishing trust is going to be a hard task, but it's gonna be necessary if ever actual Red extension is something they want to get done.
 
Certainly possible from a technological standpoint, but the economics would probably be fairly lousy on a sub-fleet that small, plus the fact that the best-case scenario for the T9s is that they stick around as GL spares while they still have a good bit of life left means that chucking them is unlikely to be nearly as good, financially speaking, as using up the remainder of their economic service lives (Mattapan needs so few the rest will be able to serve as parts donors for a good long time) rather than paying to buy new and sinking the cost of the unused life left in the 9s. By all means, though, when the 9s are coming up on their end-of-life, maybe go for a T10 (or T11 if it's that long from now?) derivative as their successor, but it probably just doesn't make sense right now.

Fully agree - I just found it amusing that the MBTA was pushing the Type-9s as the miracle for the HSRL, and went as far as to say with the transfer the HSL would no longer have the unicorn fleet/PCCs. Rather laughable, as if that is the goal, then replacing the PCCs with the Type-9s is... just another unicorn fleet.

I mean, no one says that you have to have stops converted exactly where they are now. It would be ludicrous to have a Mattapan conversion fall apart because of difficulties in station siting that could be solved by rationalizing the station placement.

That said, it's, as you said, irrelevant as long as the community around the line is on hair-trigger to politically destroy anyone who tries to touch that line. Honestly, they've got good reason to be ready to blow up about it if you ask me. The number of times the T has floated the undeniably-worse bus replacement option is scary enough, but there's also a long history of inferior replacement of existing service that cautions against letting things be touched at at all. The memory of the Elevated and the "equal or better replacement" lie looms large in the minds of anyone being promised improvements if they only agree to allow their existing service to be changed. Re-establishing trust is going to be a hard task, but it's gonna be necessary if ever actual Red extension is something they want to get done.

Exactly. I will admit: I haven't had to rely upon the HSL (or Red/Green Line for that matter) since the start of the pandemic, but: the hate for a full red line conversion is real in at least the Dot and Milton communities (didn't get to the Mattapan meetings). I personally am more than happy to give up my 1/5 mile to Butler or Cedar grove for a significantly longer walk if it means no transfer, but, I realize I am in the minority at this point, and, at least the Milton (if not Dot) crowd will fight it tooth and nail like buses.
 
Fully agree - I just found it amusing that the MBTA was pushing the Type-9s as the miracle for the HSRL, and went as far as to say with the transfer the HSL would no longer have the unicorn fleet/PCCs. Rather laughable, as if that is the goal, then replacing the PCCs with the Type-9s is... just another unicorn fleet.

I mean, yes, unicorn in that it'll be (eventually) the last refuge of the T9s just like the PCCs, but the T9s are already unicorns enough as it is (supplemental orders can do that to you). On the plus side, they'll be much newer technology, and the really good part is that you'll need so few of them actually running that not only do you get the pick of the litter, so to speak, the rest of the cars (a good dozen-and-a-half or so) will provide ample parts that should make it somewhat easier to maintain the active fleet than the ancient PCCs. It is something of a miracle, though, that GL Transformation project means that there should be a relatively-lightly-used fleet of suitable equipment (as opposed to, say, ancient lemon Bredas) to step in for the PCCs once the last life has been wrung out of them, instead of a choice between an expensive one-off acquisition (even as a tag-on to the T10 order custom ordering that few shorter cars would be expensive), bustitution, or the despised Red Line extension.

Exactly. I will admit: I haven't had to rely upon the HSL (or Red/Green Line for that matter) since the start of the pandemic, but: the hate for a full red line conversion is real in at least the Dot and Milton communities (didn't get to the Mattapan meetings). I personally am more than happy to give up my 1/5 mile to Butler or Cedar grove for a significantly longer walk if it means no transfer, but, I realize I am in the minority at this point, and, at least the Milton (if not Dot) crowd will fight it tooth and nail like buses.

They absolutely will fight it. Some of it, I expect, is the reflexive resistance to change, and a reflection of the fact that some people will either be or feel worse off. People in close proximity to a station whose walk will get substantially longer might not share your appreciation for the fact that that "loss" is weighed against the "gain" of no transfer, at least in part because the short-walk-plus-transfer is what they're used to. (And don't underestimate the desirability of a short walk. Once upon a time for my commute I could chose the shorter walk to the Green Line at Copley but I'd have to transfer or the reasonably longer walk to the Orange Line at Back Bay and no transfer, and I took the Green Line option. I'll concede that BBY's less than breathable atmosphere may have played a role in that too, though.)

That being said, I really do think a good amount of the opposition is not merits-based. I think a lot of it that isn't pure NIMBYism isn't hate for the Red Line or displeasure at change so much as it is the legitimate fear of the unknown, in that advocating for the continuation of the HSL in (more or less) its present form is the safest option that avoids the dreaded buses that pretty much everyone agrees is unwanted, and which has been threatened to be foisted on them from outside. Given both the Elevated and the twenty-plus year "temporarily suspended" Arborway service (before it was officially terminated) it's not like the T has proven itself trustworthy when it says that it's going to make things better. I think the conversation would be very different if there was a trusted, iron-clad commitment to either revitalization of the HSL as LRT or conversion to HRT as a Red extension as the only possible options (with anything non-steel-wheel taken completely off the table without possibility of reneging on that pledge), because then the merits of the two options could be fairly considered. Given the (in my opinion completely justifiable) lack of trust that the T won't just simply bring in the buses (not going to be helped by the lunatic plan to rip down the OCS in Cambridge and ruin the trackless trolley network totally against the city's wishes) it's wholly rational for the residents to insist on only revitalization as LRT because that doesn't open the door for mode-altering reconsiderations. I think one of the things we sometimes fail to recognize here is that we tend to be optimists about transit possibilities, and a great many people do not share that optimism (sadly, too often for very good reasons).
 
Looks like those cars cant come quick enough.
Another derailment, this time at Broadway
 
94EBCFF3-586F-4C60-B373-9253FFC6AC6B.jpeg

Looks like it took a chunk out of the platform too. Per MBTA Twitter, “Delays of up to 20 minutes due to a train with a mechanical problem at Broadway.” (Lol)
 
They're due to be replaced soon anyway. No need to fix it now. Just junk it!! :eek:
 
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Guess that is what happens when a transit agency keeps equipment around for so many decades before replacing it. It starts to fall apart, becoming even more dangerous to use!! These cars have to be at least the big 5-0! :eek:
 
Guess that is what happens when a transit agency keeps equipment around for so many decades before replacing it. It starts to fall apart, becoming even more dangerous to use!! These cars have to be at least the big 5-0! :eek:

At this point I don't think we've yet heard anything official about the cause(s) or potential cause(s) of the derailment. It's both premature to blame the equipment and irresponsibly hyperbolic to insinuate that the equipment is dangerous as a result of its age or length of time in service (as opposed to its condition and maintenance).

The cars in the picture are 01700 series #2 Red Line cars built between 1987 and 1989, making them somewhere between 32 and 34 years old. The #2 fleet was rebuilt between 2011 and 2016, so their mechanical systems and running gear was overhauled fairly recently. I don't know if the train also included any older #1 cars (which are all over 50).
 
Three new OL train sets in service today. Not sure I’ve seen that before.

I noticed this a couple days ago as well. Looks like a recent (and positive!) development.
 
At this point I don't think we've yet heard anything official about the cause(s) or potential cause(s) of the derailment. It's both premature to blame the equipment and irresponsibly hyperbolic to insinuate that the equipment is dangerous as a result of its age or length of time in service (as opposed to its condition and maintenance).

The cars in the picture are 01700 series #2 Red Line cars built between 1987 and 1989, making them somewhere between 32 and 34 years old. The #2 fleet was rebuilt between 2011 and 2016, so their mechanical systems and running gear was overhauled fairly recently. I don't know if the train also included any older #1 cars (which are all over 50).

You'd think that these cars would at least be checked & serviced if needed. But I don't know. The last time that there was a derailment on this line was about 2 years ago this past June. The cause of that one was a broken axle. Isn't it that the older a train gets, the more it has to be checked? Gov. Charlie Baker spoke on the accident last night, but I was at a Chinese resturant & there was a lot of noise, so I couldn't hear was he was saying. But getting back to the Red Line cars; The oldest of these have been around since '69 to present. That means that they've been around for several decades, way too long. They probably have to make the parts for them themselves!! WOW!! The plan is supposed to be for the T to have the youngest fleets possible for fewer breakdowns. :unsure:
 
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Three new OL train sets in service today. Not sure I’ve seen that before.


I think that there were about 3 or 4 sets in service before March when a car had derailed.
 
Reviewer does not like the seats & quietness of the new Orange Line trains.

 
Get over it!! The new CRRC 1400's are here to stay. I like them!! :)
 
The review was borderline incoherent lmao
At least he was honest with his position eventually which boils down to "I don't like any change whatsoever"
 
The video literally came out 34 minutes ago. For a passionate transit type dude, I have to say I share nothing in common with him. After growing up with the T for years, I hold no love for the 1200s. I want to see an MBTA that runs clean, fast, and timely.
I'm so tired of seeing rust on the trains. Tried of headways of up to 15 minutes where my readings says it's because there's just not functional trains left for consistent headways. Of random and mysterious train just getting held at stations for dozens of minutes.

The new trains is a necessary, but not sufficient, first step to seeing an MBTA that doesn't suck. The fact he's so hook on the aesthetics of the trains and the comfort level of the seat, he's should find a reason to ride the T regularly for a while at least and then find a reason to regularly ride a system like Tokyo for a while.
 
The video literally came out 34 minutes ago. For a passionate transit type dude, I have to say I share nothing in common with him. After growing up with the T for years, I hold no love for the 1200s. I want to see an MBTA that runs clean, fast, and timely.
I'm so tired of seeing rust on the trains. Tried of headways of up to 15 minutes where my readings says it's because there's just not functional trains left for consistent headways. Of random and mysterious train just getting held at stations for dozens of minutes.

The new trains is a necessary, but not sufficient, first step to seeing an MBTA that doesn't suck. The fact he's so hook on the aesthetics of the trains and the comfort level of the seat, he's should find a reason to ride the T regularly for a while at least and then find a reason to regularly ride a system like Tokyo for a while.

Exactly!! I must say that he has a right to his own opinion, but let's face it, The old trains need to be replaced for the reasons that I've gone over many times. And the commuters deserve much better service on both the Red & Orange Lines with new equipment, especially if it is ADA complient, on time & looks new & exciting. :)
 
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I agree we desperately need new orange line trains but I have to say I sympathize with the aesthetic and comfort complaints. The new seats are considerably less comfortable (I never found the old seats uncomfortable but I do with these) and, while I completely understand not everyone would agree on this, those old trains with the MS paint seats and the faux wood paneling feel like home, the new ones feel extremely sterile by comparison. Worthwhile trade overall but people do notice when those, even somewhat goofy, comforts disappear; a few people I know who also ride regularly have had similar observations.
 

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