New Red and Orange Line Cars

All of the Orange Line shells are done and delivered - I don't think anyone knows the status of the Red Line shells - which goes to the point that I agree the Orange Line we should just try to get them done given we have all the shells and are about halfway there. The Red order seems pretty DOA and I doubt will be done in 5 years anyway. Could be worth it to add an extra year or two, cut our losses on it, and streamline rebid it w/o the made-in-MA requirements (and grab some federal funding while we are at it). Plus the state of the plant and the disaster of QA and control that has been reported, these seem like they are going to be a potentially large liability down the road, and I am sure warranty claims will be a nightmare to deal with CRRC on. I don't see the order getting better anytime soon, especially given the current economics in China, and all the other disincentives already documented in this thread.

So, yeah, I have done government/State contracting I get how long the process is, but, it doesn't realistically look like we are going to get the Red Line order anytime soon either way. Sticking with CRRC has a ton of liabilities and issues for the Red order.

There's no losses to cut at this point. The factory exists and has produced a bunch of Orange Line cars. I get all the structural issues with this (depending on the Chinese Government's goodwill being chief among them) but I don't see a better, faster way to get new Red Line trains on the system than to keep going and keep holding the MBTA and CRRC's feet to the fire.

FWIW, not every one of their procurement is a disaster. They have a good thing going with CAF on the Green Line and have had the good sense to play it forward to the Type 10s.

I'm also not aware of a single heavy rail vehicle procurement in the US in the last decade that hasn't looked like a catastrophe at this point in the process, regardless of manufacturer.
 
There's no losses to cut at this point. The factory exists and has produced a bunch of Orange Line cars. I get all the structural issues with this (depending on the Chinese Government's goodwill being chief among them) but I don't see a better, faster way to get new Red Line trains on the system than to keep going and keep holding the MBTA and CRRC's feet to the fire.

FWIW, not every one of their procurement is a disaster. They have a good thing going with CAF on the Green Line and have had the good sense to play it forward to the Type 10s.

I'm also not aware of a single heavy rail vehicle procurement in the US in the last decade that hasn't looked like a catastrophe at this point in the process, regardless of manufacturer.

Now, supposedly, the CRRC is said to be keeping a close eye on the inspections of the new Orange Line railcars so that nothing is missed & that they come off the lines fully inspected. We'll see. :unsure:
 
There's no losses to cut at this point. The factory exists and has produced a bunch of Orange Line cars. I get all the structural issues with this (depending on the Chinese Government's goodwill being chief among them) but I don't see a better, faster way to get new Red Line trains on the system than to keep going and keep holding the MBTA and CRRC's feet to the fire.

FWIW, not every one of their procurement is a disaster. They have a good thing going with CAF on the Green Line and have had the good sense to play it forward to the Type 10s.

I'm also not aware of a single heavy rail vehicle procurement in the US in the last decade that hasn't looked like a catastrophe at this point in the process, regardless of manufacturer.

Now, supposedly, the CRRC is said to be keeping a close eye on the inspections of the new Orange Line railcars so that nothing is missed & that they come off the lines fully inspected. We'll see. :unsure:
New Orange Line train smiling for the cameras during inaugaration run!!!.jpg
 
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Anyone else notice the new Red trains lurching?

I was on a new train, going through a 10mph slow zone, and the train couldn't seem to just go a steady, smooth 10mph. Maybe every 2 seconds you could feel the motors kick in, then coast, then kick in, then coast. It's not a huge jolt, but noticeable. And it only seems like a problem for brand new trains. I rode an old train back though the same slow zone, and it just cruised at the speed limit.
 
Anyone else notice the new Red trains lurching?

I was on a new train, going through a 10mph slow zone, and the train couldn't seem to just go a steady, smooth 10mph. Maybe every 2 seconds you could feel the motors kick in, then coast, then kick in, then coast. It's not a huge jolt, but noticeable. And it only seems like a problem for brand new trains. I rode an old train back though the same slow zone, and it just cruised at the speed limit.

It appears or seems that ALL of the rapid transit lines are going through these utterly ridiculous slow
zones. They are constantly claiming that all of the lines need track replacement in some spots. This is coming from years & years of neglect in keeping the track work up to date. They've let it go for so long that it has caught up to them & they don't seem to get the message that new equipment just won't work with decades-old tracks that needed to be replaced EONS & EONS ago. :mad:
 
Per NETransit. . .

2 more OL cars were finally delivered in August after a 2-month gap of nothing. And only the 6th car in the last 5 months. We're still way, way, way off any sort of "recovery" pace.

So they should have 92 or so cars. But the Orange Line is way ahead of the Red Line, which has only about 12 or so new cars. :)
 
One thing I've been impressed with recently is the custom announcements on the big screens. That's real-city stuff (rather than the garbled, unintelligible audio announcements). While Haymarket has been closed for the garage demo, there have been big "This train is skipping Haymarket - Next stop: North Station" announcements displayed on the screens. Meanwhile, on the Green Line, you're pleasantly subjected to the operator yelling instructions ("Get off at North Station, take the Orange Line 'Donwtown', walk the tunnel to Pahk Street, and catch the B,C,D, and E theyah!") and the automated "This train is being taken out of service" automated announcement.
 
One thing I've been impressed with recently is the custom announcements on the big screens. That's real-city stuff (rather than the garbled, unintelligible audio announcements). While Haymarket has been closed for the garage demo, there have been big "This train is skipping Haymarket - Next stop: North Station" announcements displayed on the screens. Meanwhile, on the Green Line, you're pleasantly subjected to the operator yelling instructions ("Get off at North Station, take the Orange Line 'Donwtown', walk the tunnel to Pahk Street, and catch the B,C,D, and E theyah!") and the automated "This train is being taken out of service" automated announcement.

I'm not doing that. Whatever line that I'm on, I'm staying there. I don't mind walking, but I'm not going through all that crap to get from one line to the other one!!!! :mad:
 
I'm not doing that. Whatever line that I'm on, I'm staying there. I don't mind walking, but I'm not going through all that crap to get from one line to the other one!!!! :mad:
Some people don't really have a choice if they're going a ways from the core. But I had to run an errand to REI at CX the other day and opted to just stay on the OL and walk from Community College rather than switch at North Station to an Eastbound GL train. Considering the GL headways ("7-9 minutes"), and the snail's pace along the Viaduct, I don't think it would have been faster to switch.
 
I can switch from the Orange Line to the Green Line at Haymarket & North Station very easy!! Those seem to be the only two places that can be done without having to go through all that rigamo!!!! :)
 
I can switch from the Orange Line to the Green Line at Haymarket & North Station very easy!! Those seem to be the only two places that can be done without having to go through all that rigamo!!!! :)
Well, that's the point. But you can't switch at Haymarket right now because the station is closed. The Green Line isn't running between Government Center and North Station. So if you want to go from, say, Magoun Square to Heath Brigham Circle, you've got to get off at North Station and switch to the Orange Line and then decide whether you want to switch back to the Green Line at Park St. (via the concourse from DTX) or stay on the OL and walk from Roxbury Crossing. I'd choose the walk, personally.
 

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