New Red and Orange Line Cars

HenryAlan said:
So we have two arguments here, one that says the US can't do certain things because our regulations require accessibility. The other argument says that it is those same countries that more easily build infrastructure that actually have better accessibility standards. So, which is it?

Jass has posted some good examples of new systems in other countries with very good accessibility. Are these countries also retrofitting old systems, or is all of that new build? It's a question that matters because it is far less expensive to build a new system correctly from the ground up, than it is to convert an older system. New York is a case study in the challenges of adding elevators to platforms that are barely wider than a wheel chair. My comment above about the ADA was not meant to imply that there is no place with better accessibility than any given place in the United States. Rather, it's a very broad set of standards that do not leave much room for exceptions. Look at all the progress in Boston on a system that is over 100 years old. Compare that to Paris. The ADA is saying that it matters enough that we need to spend money not just going forward but on repairing the mistakes from the past. That's a pretty substantial thing in my opinion.
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Having the ADA is great.

I just hate when officials use ADA to justify not doing something and then turn around and violate ADA everywhere else. Like I said, can you walk a single block in Boston without finding an ADA violation? I highly doubt it.

Another thing that really grinds my gears is how the MBTA spent years raising the green line platforms by like 2 inches for accessibility...and yet doesnt provide level boarding.

Or how the Silver Line Chelsea extension was built from scratch and (as far as I know) none of the station platforms were built at the height required for level boarding.

Note the height difference between the platform and the bus entrance

MBTA%2BSilver%2BLine%2BSLW%2Bat%2BSouth%2BStation.JPG



Meanwhile, here is a bus stop in an Oregon BRT system. Note the curb is twice as high. The yellow thing is for the bus to rub against to get nice and close

Eugene+BRT+19.JPG
 
jass said:
Having the ADA is great.

I just hate when officials use ADA to justify not doing something and then turn around and violate ADA everywhere else. Like I said, can you walk a single block in Boston without finding an ADA violation? I highly doubt it.

Another thing that really grinds my gears is how the MBTA spent years raising the green line platforms by like 2 inches for accessibility...and yet doesnt provide level boarding.

Or how the Silver Line Chelsea extension was built from scratch and (as far as I know) none of the station platforms were built at the height required for level boarding.
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I think they were raised 6 to 8 inches depending on what they had before. It wasn't about level boarding, it was about being at a height where the ramp could deploy and still have a manageable slope for a wheelchair. The ramp is deployed from under the floor on the green line and from within the floor on buses. Truly level boarding for a bus wouldn't allow the ramp to lie flat and it would block the ramp from deploying on the green line. Even if you said forget about the ramp with level boarding, you'd still need some device to bridge the gap between the platform and the door.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT_qhWFdp3E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdjuPWph1tA
 
sm89 said:
Even if you said forget about the ramp with level boarding, you'd still need some device to bridge the gap between the platform and the door.
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Why is this not an issue on the red, orange, or blue lines?
 
jass said:
Why is this not an issue on the red, orange, or blue lines?
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Because buses and the green line aren't heavy rail transit. The bus setup leaves too much room to driver error and you can see in the video that I linked above that the doors of the green line would hit if the platform were higher.
 
sm89 said:
Because buses and the green line aren't heavy rail transit. The bus setup leaves too much room to driver error and you can see in the video that I linked above that the doors of the green line would hit if the platform were higher.
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There are actually solutions to the driver issue on buses

Kasselsk%C3%BD_obrubn%C3%ADk%2C_Koleje_Strahov%2C_detail.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassel_kerb

"The kerb guides the tyre of the stopping bus, improving the alignment of the doors with the kerb and slightly raised boarding platform. As the tyre rides up the concave surface, gravity pulls it back down and steers the bus into alignment"

BusStopGap.jpg


There are smart people all around the world coming up with great solutions. The issue is most US transit agencies refuse to look for them.

There is no reason for the Silver Line to be built without level boarding.
 
They should deploy plastic platforms like they did in Everett.
 
jass said:
There are smart people all around the world coming up with great solutions. The issue is most US transit agencies refuse to look for them.

There is no reason for the Silver Line to be built without level boarding.
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I'd imagine one of the issues with that design is that it doesn't work as well in snowy weather, but yes there are other options out there. The MBTA just happened to decide to use what they did based on their assessment. It still meets the ADA, which was jass's initial concern.
 
In the 3rd pic down, it looks like those sections of rail laying alongside the track are for the third rail. ;)
 
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It's past memorial day, the unofficial start of summer. So any updated timeline for those new Orange Line trains or will they be pushed back to December once August comes around?
 
tysmith95 said:
It's past memorial day, the unofficial start of summer. So any updated timeline for those new Orange Line trains or will they be pushed back to December once August comes around?
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Summer 2019 in Northern Hemisphere will begin on
Friday, June 21
and ends on
Monday, September 23
All dates are in Eastern Time.

MBTA probably uses actual definition of summer...
 
tysmith95 said:
It's past memorial day, the unofficial start of summer. So any updated timeline for those new Orange Line trains or will they be pushed back to December once August comes around?
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The Alstom signal equipment fix (which held up the launch) was scheduled to be tested through this month, so hopefully that testing occurred, was successful and the cars will launch in June or July.
 
datadyne007 said:
The Alstom signal equipment fix (which held up the launch) was scheduled to be tested through this month, so hopefully that testing occurred, was successful and the cars will launch in June or July.
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Any indication the Red Line cars are still on the original schedule or will everything get pushed back?
 
sneijder said:
Any indication the Red Line cars are still on the original schedule or will everything get pushed back?
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They claim the only delay from this is the Orange Line pilot train itself. AFAIK (and they are saying), everything is still on schedule.
 
datadyne007 said:
They claim the only delay from this is the Orange Line pilot train itself. AFAIK (and they are saying), everything is still on schedule.
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Well the red line test track is delayed by four months according to the May update and won't be ready until 08/22/19 and while they are claiming this won't push back the red line roll out I find that hard to believe, and they quietly updated the red line revenue roll-out date to "Winter 2019/2020" and quietly moved back pilot testing too. I think their new timeline is a bit unrealistic. Top one is the latest one vs last years timeline.

car-change.png
 
tysmith95 said:
It's past memorial day, the unofficial start of summer. So any updated timeline for those new Orange Line trains or will they be pushed back to December once August comes around?
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From what I heard, those ones will be shipped over before or by sometime in December, premade, about four of them, then the empty shells would start coming over not too long after.

I hope that the Orange Line cars are ready to roll with revenue passengers this summer. Your supposed to have your stuff together before you made plans to offer services in a timely fashion. :mad:
 
Jahvon09 said:
From what I heard, those ones will be shipped over before or by sometime in December, premade, about four of them, then the empty shells would start coming over not too long after.

I hope that the Orange Line cars are ready to roll with revenue passengers this summer. Your supposed to have your stuff together before you made plans to offer services in a timely fashion. :mad:
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There are a number of fully built cars sitting at Wellington Station.
 
tysmith95 said:
There are a number of fully built cars sitting at Wellington Station.
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In fact at most recent update, 7 Married Pairs have been completed at Springfield and are either at Wellington or in transit, along with the 4 pilot married pairs which combined at 22 completed cars equals at least 3 full trains (6 cars each) either in testing or ready to roll at Wellington. Latest update says they anticipate the first 6 car Springfield set to be ready to roll when passenger service begins in the summer, alongside the pilot cars. CRRC reports they are currently producing car "#65" which leads me to believe that 43 car bodies are currently in some stage of production, looking at the photos of Springfield I'm willing to bet a lot of them are hanging out there right now...

Source: https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/files/fmcb-meeting-docs/2019/05-may/2019-05-20/2019-05-20-fmcb-joint-21-red-line-orange-line-update.pdf
 
HelloBostonHi said:
In fact at most recent update, 7 Married Pairs have been completed at Springfield and are either at Wellington or in transit, along with the 4 pilot married pairs which combined at 22 completed cars equals at least 3 full trains (6 cars each) either in testing or ready to roll at Wellington. Latest update says they anticipate the first 6 car Springfield set to be ready to roll when passenger service begins in the summer, alongside the pilot cars. CRRC reports they are currently producing car "#65" which leads me to believe that 43 car bodies are currently in some stage of production, looking at the photos of Springfield I'm willing to bet a lot of them are hanging out there right now...

Source: https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/files/fmcb-meeting-docs/2019/05-may/2019-05-20/2019-05-20-fmcb-joint-21-red-line-orange-line-update.pdf
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Anyone know what the "mainline signal upgrades" vs "signal enhancements" projects are? On slide 5. Does this involve re-wiring all the circuitry for future CBTC or just shortening the signal blocks so that trains can run closer together?

Gonna need tighter blocks if 3-min headways are to happen on the RL around the harvard curve and DTX/Park chokepoints..
 
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