New Red and Orange Line Cars

Teban54 said:
If personnel (either operators or dispatchers) are still an issue, that makes it a bit less likely for 13 OL trains to keep running once the GL shutdown ends, if some of the GL personnel were temporarily moved over to OL for a temporary boost in capacity. Hopefully that's not the case.
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Yeah, I hope that, too, but I have yet to see any updates from the T on the shortage and where they are at with training/hiring.
 
Teban54 said:
If personnel (either operators or dispatchers) are still an issue, that makes it a bit less likely for 13 OL trains to keep running once the GL shutdown ends, if some of the GL personnel were temporarily moved over to OL for a temporary boost in capacity. Hopefully that's not the case.
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I thought the dispatcher issue meant that 13 orange line trains was the max permitted for dispatchers, and that they were only running 12 trains due to lack of railcars for a 13th train?

With 12 trains the MBTA has been running OL trains every 9 - 10 minutes due to slowzones. However, if the MBTA fixed all Orange Line slowzones and runs 13 trains, they should be able to run trains every 7 - 8 minutes.
 
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bakgwailo said:
Yeah, I hope that, too, but I have yet to see any updates from the T on the shortage and where they are at with training/hiring.
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They cancelled the November subcommittee meeting. The next subcommittee meeting is December 7th.
 
Teban54 said:
If personnel (either operators or dispatchers) are still an issue, that makes it a bit less likely for 13 OL trains to keep running once the GL shutdown ends, if some of the GL personnel were temporarily moved over to OL for a temporary boost in capacity. Hopefully that's not the case.
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Green Line operators cannot be moved to the Orange Line for any sort of capacity improvements. Entirely different equipment, entirely different classification, entirely different training. The most they could have us do is help direct customers, but at our own stations, not at Orange Line stations. Most of our extra personnel are being sent as platform covers at the terminal, or to help with activities in the subway like directing passengers to the shuttle buses.

Source: I'm in training as a Green Line operator. As fun as it would be to drive on the Orange Line, I - and nobody else on the Green Line - would be allowed to do that. I think light rail dispatch and heavy rail dispatch are also two different things.

Delvin4519 said:
I thought the dispatcher issue meant that 13 orange line trains was the max permitted for dispatchers, and that they were only running 12 trains due to lack of railcars for a 13th train?

With 12 trains the MBTA has been running OL trains every 9 - 10 minutes due to slowzones. However, if the MBTA fixed all Orange Line slowzones and runs 13 trains, they should be able to run trains every 7 - 8 minutes.
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They have the cars for 13 sets. They actually have enough cars accepted for 15 sets, and once the latest deliveries get approved that will go up to 16. Usually they have to hold one or two in the shop and/or yard. They run 12 trains as the base schedule with room for a 13th. Not sure if they have clearance to run 14 trains, but Eng hinted that the winter rating would likely see 13 trains as the regular peak service.
 
nbcoram said:
Green Line operators cannot be moved to the Orange Line for any sort of capacity improvements. Entirely different equipment, entirely different classification, entirely different training. The most they could have us do is help direct customers, but at our own stations, not at Orange Line stations. Most of our extra personnel are being sent as platform covers at the terminal, or to help with activities in the subway like directing passengers to the shuttle buses.

Source: I'm in training as a Green Line operator. As fun as it would be to drive on the Orange Line, I - and nobody else on the Green Line - would be allowed to do that. I think light rail dispatch and heavy rail dispatch are also two different things.


They have the cars for 13 sets. They actually have enough cars accepted for 15 sets, and once the latest deliveries get approved that will go up to 16. Usually they have to hold one or two in the shop and/or yard. They run 12 trains as the base schedule with room for a 13th. Not sure if they have clearance to run 14 trains, but Eng hinted that the winter rating would likely see 13 trains as the regular peak service.
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I somehow knew that the shutdown of this line last year for a month to fix it was bullcrap!! Seems that when they try to fix a line, it doesn't get better. It gets WORST!!!! :mad:
 
NETransit updated its Orange roster. 94 cars now in-service with 1494/1495 being accepted. However, the deliveries are still lagging very badly. 1500/1501 arrived, but non-consecutively...as 1496-1499 are still AWOL with an "expected November/December" arrival. Between June and October (5 months) only 8 cars arrived, which is slippage from the molasses-slow pace of 2 cars per month they were maintaining earlier this year.

If there's been a "reset" at the factory like the media has been breathlessly reporting, we sure ain't seeing it in the actual deliveries.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
NETransit updated its Orange roster. 94 cars now in-service with 1494/1495 being accepted. However, the deliveries are still lagging very badly. 1500/1501 arrived, but non-consecutively...as 1496-1499 are still AWOL with an "expected November/December" arrival. Between June and October (5 months) only 8 cars arrived, which is slippage from the molasses-slow pace of 2 cars per month they were maintaining earlier this year.

If there's been a "reset" at the factory like the media has been breathlessly reporting, we sure ain't seeing it in the actual deliveries.
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So the MBTA Accessibility report dated Nov 27 posted in the other thread notes that 96 New Orange line cars are currently used in service, and the Nov 16 board meeting Eng specifically flagged that 98 OL (and 14 RL, NE transit says 12) cars were on property as of that date and 4 more would be delivered by the end of November. I would assume they're not counting the derailment damaged 1400/1401 pair, but it may be that NE transit is simply slightly lagging?
 
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Stlin said:
So the MBTA Accessibility report dated Nov 27 posted in the other thread notes that 96 New Orange line cars are currently used in service, and the Nov 16 board meeting Eng specifically flagged that 98 OL (and 14 RL, NE transit says 12) cars were on property as of that date and 4 more would be delivered by the end of November. I would assume they're not counting the derailment damaged 1400/1401 pair, but it may be that NE transit is simply slightly lagging?
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I thought that 1400 & 1401 were supposed to be repaired. See? That's the T's fault for trying to use decades-old tracks with new equipment, & it frigging costed them 2 new cars that we'll probably never see again in life!!!! :mad:
 
Isn't it time now for the MBTA to finish acquiring the remainder of the new Orange Line cars, yet it seems like CRRC is still dragging their feet in getting this finished?!!!! :mad:
 
A second new Red Line train has entered service, and all the remaining Orange Line cars are on site in the Springfield factory:

mass.streetsblog.org

At Long Last, Another New Train Is Rolling On the Red Line - Streetsblog Massachusetts

Your odds of catching a new CRRC-manufactured Red Line train just doubled: three years after the first new Red Line train hit the tracks in December 2020, the MBTA started running a second set of new Red Line cars earlier this month. Followers of the TransitMatters New Trains Tracker recently...
mass.streetsblog.org mass.streetsblog.org

January 2023:
78 OL cars delivered to Wellington, and 12 RL delivered to Cabot

January 2024:
106 new OL cars delivered (+28) and 16 new Red Line cars (+4)

Original contract terms:
152 OL cars to have been delivered to the T by January 2022, plus 252 new Red Line cars finished by September 2023.
 
So does this mean that 106 OL cars are at Wellington and/or in service, and 46 car bodies are in Springfield?
 
StreetsblogMASS said:
A second new Red Line train has entered service, and all the remaining Orange Line cars are on site in the Springfield factory:

mass.streetsblog.org

At Long Last, Another New Train Is Rolling On the Red Line - Streetsblog Massachusetts

Your odds of catching a new CRRC-manufactured Red Line train just doubled: three years after the first new Red Line train hit the tracks in December 2020, the MBTA started running a second set of new Red Line cars earlier this month. Followers of the TransitMatters New Trains Tracker recently...
mass.streetsblog.org mass.streetsblog.org

January 2023:
78 OL cars delivered to Wellington, and 12 RL delivered to Cabot

January 2024:
106 new OL cars delivered (+28) and 16 new Red Line cars (+4)

Original contract terms:
152 OL cars to have been delivered to the T by January 2022, plus 252 new Red Line cars finished by September 2023.
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Well at this rate we are only 2 years out for the orange line to be complete and 10 years for the Red (assuming the orange needs to wrap up and a ~30 cars a year clip).
 
bakgwailo said:
Well at this rate we are only 2 years out for the orange line to be complete and 10 years for the Red (assuming the orange needs to wrap up and a ~30 cars a year clip).
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Well, that's good news!!! Hopefully, all of the new Orange Line cars should be delivered soon!!! And some more Red Line cars also!!! :)
 
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Equilibria said:
Gotta be honest: two years late for something like this isn't wild, particularly given the Pandemic happened during that time.
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But, doesn’t Bakgwailo implies the Orange Line will be 4 years late, assuming no more delays?
 
The Orange Line fleet only needs to get to 122 cars to be at the same fleet size as the old orange line fleet. There were only 120 orange line cars before CRRC. The 32 cars are mostly extra so 120 operational cars would allow the MBTA to be back at pre-COVID service levels. (122 cars and not 120 due to derailment pair).

Once the Orange Line gets to 122 cars, at that point, i'd think it becomes better to start prioritizing the Red Line due to it's aging fleet, over expansion of the Orange Line past 122 cars up to 152 cars.
 
Delvin4519 said:
Once the Orange Line gets to 122 cars, at that point, i'd think it becomes better to start prioritizing the Red Line due to it's aging fleet, over expansion of the Orange Line past 122 cars up to 152 cars.
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Springfield basically has to prioritize the Orange fleet to 152 cars when that's the vast majority of the cars on their property. 8/10ths of the Red order is still in China or not yet started.
 
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